Why I will vote or John McCain

[scribo]

We could stay there 2 years or 10 years, but in the end when we leave if the Iraqis don't have a political agreement then it will revert to civil war in either case. Enough American lives have been sacrificed, I don't want any more.

I agree enough have sacrificed and I don't want anymore to die or be wounded either. I want my buddies home. Their families want them home. But they have a job to get done, a job they volunteered for. There is not one person in today's military who didn't enlist, reenlist or otherwise commit to serving in uniform at least once since the war in Iraq began. Many have done so more than once since then. They are ALL volunteers.

 

In large part, those who have served over there and have had the first-hand look as what we're fighting, believe in the mission and want to fight until the battle is done. That is supported by several polls of veterans of combat in Iraq, who I work with every day.

[blzrul]

If we stay in Iraq, the terrorists win. OBL's stated goal is to wipe us out, not by terror attacks, but financially. Our brave soldiers believe in what they do, based on what they're told. They're not hearing the truth.

[scribo]

Here is why one of the best political columnists in the country is voting for Sen. McCain:

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/...m_voting_f.html

 

"..The case for McCain is straightforward. The financial crisis has made us forget, or just blindly deny, how dangerous the world out there is. We have a generations-long struggle with Islamic jihadism. An apocalyptic, soon-to-be-nuclear Iran. A nuclear-armed Pakistan in danger of fragmentation. A rising Russia pushing the limits of revanchism. Plus the sure-to-come Falklands-like surprise popping out of nowhere.

 

Who do you want answering that phone at 3 a.m.? A man who’s been cramming on these issues for the last year, who’s never had to make an executive decision affecting so much as a city, let alone the world? A foreign-policy novice instinctively inclined to the flabbiest, most vaporous multilateralism (e.g., the Berlin Wall came down because of “a world that stands as one”), and who refers to the most deliberate act of war since Pearl Harbor as “the tragedy of 9/11,” a term more appropriate for a bus accident?

 

Or do you want a man who is the most prepared, most knowledgeable, most serious foreign-policy thinker in the United States Senate? A man who not only has the best instincts, but has the honor and the courage to, yes, put country first, as when he carried the lonely fight for the surge that turned Iraq from catastrophic defeat into achievable strategic victory?

 

There’s just no comparison. Obama’s own running mate warned this week that Obama’s youth and inexperience will invite a crisis — indeed a crisis “generated” precisely to test him. Can you be serious about national security and vote on November 4 to invite that test?..."

[The Big Cat]

The offer for early release came because he was the son of an admiral and out of order.

 

http://www.azcentral.com/news/election/mcc...o-chapter3.html

 

Whoa whoa whoa!! The only reason he SURVIVED was because he was the son of an admiral- otherwise the injuries sustained when his plane went down would have done him in. By informing his captors that he was the son of an Admiral McCain was in direct violation of POW Code of Conduct which strictly madates a captor can only reveal his name, rank, date of birth, and service number.

 

But the subsequent tale of McCain's mistreatment — and the transformation it is alleged to have produced — are both deeply flawed. The Code of Conduct that governed POWs was incredibly rigid; few soldiers lived up to its dictate that they "give no information . . . which might be harmful to my comrades." Under the code, POWs are bound to give only their name, rank, date of birth and service number — and to make no "statements disloyal to my country."

 

Soon after McCain hit the ground in Hanoi, the code went out the window. "I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital," he later admitted pleading with his captors. McCain now insists the offer was a bluff, designed to fool the enemy into giving him medical treatment. In fact, his wounds were attended to only after the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a Navy admiral. What has never been disclosed is the manner in which they found out: McCain told them. According to Dramesi, one of the few POWs who remained silent under years of torture, McCain tried to justify his behavior while they were still prisoners. "I had to tell them," he insisted to Dramesi, "or I would have died in bed."

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to debunking some of the shaky truths your original posts rests on, but I don't have the time or energy today go through them one by one.

 

Please, Scribo, for someone who took the time to write a heartfelt, grammar and spelling-error free post, allow yourself to consider the possibility that the son of two infinitely respected and honored admirals may be benefitting from a perceived reality which does not do justice to the truth, especially the truths concerning his military record.

 

If you're open to skepticism about one candidate and his record, it's only fair that the other receive equal scrutiny.

[scribo]

If we stay in Iraq, the terrorists win. OBL's stated goal is to wipe us out, not by terror attacks, but financially. Our brave soldiers believe in what they do, based on what they're told. They're not hearing the truth.

So do you suggest we pull out of Iraq and then in some other way fight terrorists wanting nothing more than to kill Americans or die trying? How do you suggest we do that? I am in favor of fighting them over there, as there should be no doubt we have to fight them somewhere.

 

I am sorry that you are so misinformed. Our brave troops do, in fact, have minds of their own. They do, in fact, have plenty of access to the Internet and all the network news. They see the same reports you see; however, they see what's happening in Iraq and Afghanistan unfiltered. Yes, we all have our own biases, and it is easier to keep soldiering on if you believe in what you're doing, but today's troops are smart, perceptive men and women. They know what's right and what's wrong. If the fight over there wasn't worthwhile, we would see a mass exodus from the military. The recruiting and retention issues went away after those who were only serving to get college money and such left.

[molson_golden2002]

I am sorry that you are so misinformed. Our brave troops do, in fact, have minds of their own. They do, in fact, have plenty of access to the Internet and all the network news. They see the same reports you see; however, they see what's happening in Iraq and Afghanistan unfiltered. Yes, we all have our own biases, and it is easier to keep soldiering on if you believe in what you're doing, but today's troops are smart, perceptive men and women. They know what's right and what's wrong. If the fight over there wasn't worthwhile, we would see a mass exodus from the military. The recruiting and retention issues went away after those who were only serving to get college money and such left.

They also lowered the standards and offered huge bonuses. The half retard kid in our neighborhood--NO! Not me!--that at 24 still rode around on his Huffy was taken in the army and given $20,000.

[scribo]

Whoa whoa whoa!! The only reason he SURVIVED was because he was the son of an admiral- otherwise the injuries sustained when his plane went down would have done him in. By informing his captors that he was the son of an Admiral McCain was in direct violation of POW Code of Conduct which strictly madates a captor can only reveal his name, rank, date of birth, and service number.

 

This is just the tip of the iceberg when it comes to debunking some of the shaky truths your original posts rests on, but I don't have the time or energy today go through them one by one.

 

Please, Scribo, for someone who took the time to write a heartfelt, grammar and spelling-error free post, allow yourself to consider the possibility that the son of two infinitely respected and honored admirals may be benefitting from a perceived reality which does not do justice to the truth, especially the truths concerning his military record.

 

If you're open to skepticism about one candidate and his record, it's only fair that the other receive equal scrutiny.

First of all, as your post admits, there in actual evidence that John McCain told anyone who his father was. His father had the same last name, and the Vietcong were well aware of who was in charge of the American troops in that region. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

Second, I have been through SERE training, which is an intense military course that teaches how to survive in captivity without endangering your troops. It is true John McCain likely broke at points during his years as a POW. But the truth is no POW held that long denies breaking from time to time. Lying to your captives is a dangerous tactic but one that most every POW must do from time to time.

 

I am not going to debate this further. If you're saying Sen. McCain is not honorable, we simply will not be able to agree.

[pBills]

First of all, as your post admits, there in actual evidence that John McCain told anyone who his father was. His father had the same last name, and the Vietcong were well aware of who was in charge of the American troops in that region. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

Second, I have been through SERE training, which is an intense military course that teaches how to survive in captivity without endangering your troops. It is true John McCain likely broke at points during his years as a POW. But the truth is no POW held that long denies breaking from time to time. Lying to your captives is a dangerous tactic but one that most every POW must do from time to time.

 

I am not going to debate this further. If you're saying Sen. McCain is not honorable, we simply will not be able to agree.

 

 

Can one question one's integrity and honor when they say one thing and do another? ie: run a clean campaign

[scribo]

They also lowered the standards and offered huge bonuses. The half retard kid in our neighborhood--NO! Not me!--that at 24 still rode around on his Huffy was taken in the army and given $20,000.

So you're saying our troops are joining and staying in the military because they are retarded? That's more than a bit off. Make no mistake about it, the military we have right now is the most educated and techincally skilled military this planet has ever seen. We have never before had so many college graduates in uniform. Our DoD school as among the best in just about every techinical field out there.

 

By lowering the standards, I presume you mean that they the Army now takes more high school drop out and GED recipients. This definitely true. But did you know that these drop outs are then sent to a military run prep school that teaches them every academically they would learn in regular high school? They are required to pass state exams before they are allowed to become part of the armed forces.

[The Big Cat]

First of all, as your post admits, there in actual evidence that John McCain told anyone who his father was. His father had the same last name, and the Vietcong were well aware of who was in charge of the American troops in that region. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

Second, I have been through SERE training, which is an intense military course that teaches how to survive in captivity without endangering your troops. It is true John McCain likely broke at points during his years as a POW. But the truth is no POW held that long denies breaking from time to time. Lying to your captives is a dangerous tactic but one that most every POW must do from time to time.

 

I am not going to debate this further. If you're saying Sen. McCain is not honorable, we simply will not be able to agree.

 

Okay, so would you be completely closed to entertaining a journalistic account of how he WAS dishonorbale? In EVERY facete of his military career?

 

Or are you completely closed minded to even the mere mention of it?

 

If you're willing to look at the life and times of John McCain through different lenses:

 

Link You'll most likely dismiss immediately as a "biased" "liberal" source, but most of the excerpts and quotes are taken from other people closed to him during his career and from his own book.

 

Just make the effort, that's all I ask.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

This says alot about you being an informed voter. Just imagine how many more like you are out there. Scary.

 

My point was that having respect for a person and admitting he's a war hero doesn't mean you have to respect him as a politician or want him as your president. If I'm marching into battle, who would I rather have as my leader? McCain.

 

Leading America into the future? Obama.

[scribo]

Can one question one's integrity and honor when they say one thing and do another? ie: run a clean campaign

Or not committing to public financing after you said you would?

 

Yes.

[scribo]

My point was that having respect for a person and admitting he's a war hero doesn't mean you have to respect him as a politician or want him as your president. If I'm marching into battle, who would I rather have as my leader? McCain.

 

Leading America into the future? Obama.

When you watch the news today, try to figure out if we are in a battle. I think we are.

[/dev/null]

I thought the slurge worked and we already won? Why do we need to stay and baby sit the Iraqis longer? Let's send the army into Trenton, New Jersey and rebuild that place

 

New Jersey is a hellhole not worth saving. Let's just nuke it and be done with it

 

No blood for Jersey girls!

[The Big Cat]

Or not committing to public financing after you said you would?

 

Yes.

 

Yeah, but this tactic of "he didn't do anything wrong because the other guy did it too" is a logical nightmare and frankly does nothing to bolster anyone's confidence in your own candidate.

 

Cripes, McCain isn't even running for a McCain to be president anymore- he's running, and has been running AGAINST Obama. I'm referring to campaign tactics and not to liklihood of victory.

[molson_golden2002]

So you're saying our troops are joining and staying in the military because they are retarded? That's more than a bit off. Make no mistake about it, the military we have right now is the most educated and techincally skilled military this planet has ever seen. We have never before had so many college graduates in uniform. Our DoD school as among the best in just about every techinical field out there.

 

By lowering the standards, I presume you mean that they the Army now takes more high school drop out and GED recipients. This definitely true. But did you know that these drop outs are then sent to a military run prep school that teaches them every academically they would learn in regular high school? They are required to pass state exams before they are allowed to become part of the armed forces.

ROTF, ok

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

First of all, as your post admits, there in actual evidence that John McCain told anyone who his father was. His father had the same last name, and the Vietcong were well aware of who was in charge of the American troops in that region. It doesn't take a genius to figure that out.

 

Second, I have been through SERE training, which is an intense military course that teaches how to survive in captivity without endangering your troops. It is true John McCain likely broke at points during his years as a POW. But the truth is no POW held that long denies breaking from time to time. Lying to your captives is a dangerous tactic but one that most every POW must do from time to time.

 

I am not going to debate this further. If you're saying Sen. McCain is not honorable, we simply will not be able to agree.

not questioning his honor, bravery or anything else, but according to this article, he told his captors who his father was...

 

Soon after McCain hit the ground in Hanoi, the code went out the window. "I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital," he later admitted pleading with his captors. McCain now insists the offer was a bluff, designed to fool the enemy into giving him medical treatment. In fact, his wounds were attended to only after the North Vietnamese discovered that his father was a Navy admiral. What has never been disclosed is the manner in which they found out: McCain told them. According to Dramesi, one of the few POWs who remained silent under years of torture, McCain tried to justify his behavior while they were still prisoners. "I had to tell them," he insisted to Dramesi, "or I would have died in bed."

[The Big Cat]

not questioning his honor, bravery or anything else, but according to this article, he told his captors who his father was...

 

Is there an echo in here, echo in here, echo in here?

 

[molson_golden2002]

New Jersey is a hellhole not worth saving. Let's just nuke it and be done with it

 

No blood for Jersey girls!

Some parts are really nice, but if we have to nuke, we have to nuke it! Let's sew panic first by giving everyone 2 hours to get out. I'd love to see the terror stricken people fleeing! The fire works would be cool too--observed from a safe distance of coure

[/dev/null]

Some parts are really nice, but if we have to nuke, we have to nuke it! Let's sew panic first by giving everyone 2 hours to get out. I'd love to see the terror stricken people fleeing! The fire works would be cool too--observed from a safe distance of coure

 

Especially the terror stricken people trying to flee that have to turn left in New Jersey