Obama is the Engine of Job Creation

[finknottle]

I was listening to an Obama speech on the radio today where he went down his litany of campaign promises. I was struck by how many involve the creation of jobs through direct government action.

 

In today's speech he promised

- 6 million new high-paying nonoutsourceable jobs within 10 years through investing in Green Technology (at $15 billion, or 2k per job, that's a great trick if he can do it)

- 2 million new jobs immediately rebuilding roads and infrastructure (How? He say's the 10 billion a month from Iraq. I think he assumes his supporters won't do the math, for you realize that if you spent every penny of the $10 billion/month on salaries and not on things like asphalt and materials, they would be jobs paying about $40,000 a year)

- An additional 1 million jobs through "a Jobs and Growth Fund that will help states and local communities move forward with projects to rebuild and repair our roads, our bridges, and our schools."

- While he's at it with the funds, "That's why I'm going to create a $25 billion fund to help states and local governments pay for health care and education, police and firefighters, without having to raise your taxes."

- His plans for early education require "recruiting an army of new teachers, and paying them better"

- We will effectively be putting every college kid on the payroll: "if you commit to serving your community or your country, we will make sure you can afford your tuition. No ifs, ands or buts."

 

10 million jobs, just from that speech, and not counting the college kids. That's more than the number of unemployed he have in this country, according to government figures. In earlier debates he's also promised to expand national service organizations to the same size as the Defense Department. He never explained whether that means funding or numbers, but in an earlier speech he promised to increase

- Americorps from 75,000 employees to 250,000 employees

- expand service programs for retirees

- expand the Peace Corp from 7,800 to 16,000

By way of comparison, Americorps at the present 75k is significantly larger already than most government agencies. (Who knew?)

 

And let's not forget he has also promised to expand the size of the volunteer army - he'll be cutting military programs, but will not let it not be said he is weak on the the military!

 

So where will all these people filling these jobs come from? And who will pay their salaries?

[SD Jarhead]

Here's an idea. Maybe he can fund a Federal Program to start The Carbon Police.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/oct/22/1

[Boomer860]

"So where will all these people filling these jobs come from? And who will pay their salaries? "

The will come from China and Mexico and you will pay thier salaries. You see he will not only be the Pres of the US but of the world . Obama is a fraud as you can see by his mindless drivel.

[Boomer860]

"So where will all these people filling these jobs come from? And who will pay their salaries? "

The will come from China and Mexico and you will pay thier salaries. You see he will not only be the Pres of the US but of the world . Obama is a fraud as you can see by his mindless drivel.

On the other hand when he eliminates the military that will free up a few people.

[finknottle]

"So where will all these people filling these jobs come from? And who will pay their salaries? "

The will come from China and Mexico and you will pay thier salaries. You see he will not only be the Pres of the US but of the world . Obama is a fraud as you can see by his mindless drivel.

 

Is this why he still supports driver's licenses for illegal immigrants? To get them over here to fill the job-creation quota?

[bills_fan]

He realizes that the spending from Iraq is the reason the national debt went from $4.9 tril when Clinton left to its present $10.2 tril disaster right? And if he continues spending like a 16 year old girl at the mall with Daddy's credit card, we're all !@#$ right?

[SD Jarhead]

He realizes that the spending from Iraq is the reason the national debt went from $4.9 tril when Clinton left to its present $10.2 tril disaster right? And if he continues spending like a 16 year old girl at the mall with Daddy's credit card, we're all !@#$ right?

 

I don't think he realizes this. We are spending like a drunken sailor on payday in Iraq. I work on a program that is but one small piece of the effort there and we've spent upwards of $1.5 billion on it. I am sick as a taxpayer at what happens in the Defense contracting world, but that is for another thread. Net/net- we can't keep on spending like this. WE CAN'T!

 

What I've heard him say in the past is that we're going to 'save' money by being out of Iraq and use it for domestic schit. WE DON'T HAVE THE MONEY TO BEGIN WITH!

 

So Obama touting that he's going to use money from the war effort to fund domestic stuff is pure BS.

 

Disclaimer- We broke it, we bought it. We must do everything possible to ensure that we'll not have an Iraq invasion part deux if we leave too soon. But let's get the !@#$ out of there as soon as possible.

[DC Tom]

He realizes that the spending from Iraq is the reason the national debt went from $4.9 tril when Clinton left to its present $10.2 tril disaster right? And if he continues spending like a 16 year old girl at the mall with Daddy's credit card, we're all !@#$ right?

 

One of the reasons. I might even accept that it's a major reason.

 

But it's hardly THE reason. The reason is simple: the Bush Administration and Congress spend like a group of trust fund brats on spring break to Cancun. Is evacuating Iraq going to change that?

[bills_fan]

One of the reasons. I might even accept that it's a major reason.

 

But it's hardly THE reason. The reason is simple: the Bush Administration and Congress spend like a group of trust fund brats on spring break to Cancun. Is evacuating Iraq going to change that?

 

 

You're right, Iraq is not the only reason (although it is the major reason). I know we have to finish the job there...but damn our spending is so out of control. Bush is truly up there with the unholy trinity of worst US Presidents ever (Coolidge, Harding and Carter).

 

The national debt will either stop the next US President's policies cold, or the Obama tax plan he already showed is only part 1 of 37 tax raises he will unveil.

[drnykterstein]

He realizes that the spending from Iraq is the reason the national debt went from $4.9 tril when Clinton left to its present $10.2 tril disaster right? And if he continues spending like a 16 year old girl at the mall with Daddy's credit card, we're all !@#$ right?

 

You know. I'm starting to wonder.. what are the real consequences of the debt? Is China going to walk in a claim ownership of us or something? I'm rather curious.

[bills_fan]

You know. I'm starting to wonder.. what are the real consequences of the debt? Is China going to walk in a claim ownership of us or something? I'm rather curious.

 

 

Well, there area few outcomes...

 

1- The US gets responsible, balances the budget and uses surplus from tax increases/tax revenues from economic growth to pay it off.

 

2- The US continues spending wildly, increasing the debt. Even with the existing $10.2 trillion we have a problem.

 

A- More and more of the Federal budget each year is used to pay interest on the debt. That leaves less money for Medicare/Social Security/Military etc. Expect a far lower standard of living.

 

B - Default. Global anarchy.

 

3- The Fed decides not to drain the M1 that it is greasing the economy with after the economy recovers. Due to a fractional banking system, inflation spikes wildly. Inflation helps those with fixed rate debt payments such as homeowners, people with student loans and the US Govt. Foreign debt holders realize the payments they receive on US debt are worth far less than when they bought it due to inflation. Dollar is debased and new world currency comes into effect. US is reduced to third world nation, albeit with best military technology.

 

4- Massive REAL economic expansion makes debt far less of a concern. As a % of GDP, debt becomes very low and not a worry. Increased revenues help US pay down debt.

[SDS]

He realizes that the spending from Iraq is the reason the national debt went from $4.9 tril when Clinton left to its present $10.2 tril disaster right? And if he continues spending like a 16 year old girl at the mall with Daddy's credit card, we're all !@#$ right?

 

 

Look, there are a LOT of planetariums that need refurbishing. Once we get that under control - we can talk about tightening the ol' belt.

[drnykterstein]

A- More and more of the Federal budget each year is used to pay interest on the debt. That leaves less money for Medicare/Social Security/Military etc. Expect a far lower standard of living.

 

That is my guess.

[GG]

Well, there area few outcomes...

 

1- The US gets responsible, balances the budget and uses surplus from tax increases/tax revenues from economic growth to pay it off.

 

2- The US continues spending wildly, increasing the debt. Even with the existing $10.2 trillion we have a problem.

 

A- More and more of the Federal budget each year is used to pay interest on the debt. That leaves less money for Medicare/Social Security/Military etc. Expect a far lower standard of living.

 

B - Default. Global anarchy.

 

3- The Fed decides not to drain the M1 that it is greasing the economy with after the economy recovers. Due to a fractional banking system, inflation spikes wildly. Inflation helps those with fixed rate debt payments such as homeowners, people with student loans and the US Govt. Foreign debt holders realize the payments they receive on US debt are worth far less than when they bought it due to inflation. Dollar is debased and new world currency comes into effect. US is reduced to third world nation, albeit with best military technology.

 

4- Massive REAL economic expansion makes debt far less of a concern. As a % of GDP, debt becomes very low and not a worry. Increased revenues help US pay down debt.

 

Or, realistically, nothing.

[bills_fan]

That is my guess.

 

 

Of course, people will not accept a lower standard of living, so you have massive tax increases until we truly are a socialist country. Would you go to work, and work 12-15 hours a day, so you could take home a fraction of what you used to bring home? Neither would I, innovation would be dead, no incentive.

 

Right now, I'm in the inflate your way out is the most likely scenario camp.

[bills_fan]

Or, realistically, nothing.

 

 

Can't happen. Double the national debt every 8 years and nothing happens? What would you do if you were an investor? Obama is not offering spending cuts/balanced budget.

[SD Jarhead]

Or, realistically, nothing.

 

Do you really think we can maintain status quo long term?

[SD Jarhead]

Of course, people will not accept a lower standard of living, so you have massive tax increases until we truly are a socialist country. Would you go to work, and work 12-15 hours a day, so you could take home a fraction of what you used to bring home? Neither would I, innovation would be dead, no incentive.

 

Right now, I'm in the inflate your way out is the most likely scenario camp.

 

But would the Chinese stand for that without trying to get some type of return on their investments? I'm not suggesting they would start an all out war with us, but there are a thousand scenarios where they could use a proxy to start something or irritate us into some type of action.

[GG]

Can't happen. Double the national debt every 8 years and nothing happens? What would you do if you were an investor? Obama is not offering spending cuts/balanced budget.

 

If I'm an investor, I look at the available basket. Then, I'd see that no matter how badly Treasuries may look, there's not a single sovereign bond out there that rivals it. Again, if there was a near term fear of US Govt collapsing under the weight of its debt, you wouldn't be seeing sub 4% yields on the 10-yr notes.

 

Longer term, there are definitely issues, but they are manageable and will be managed. Congress will get religion very quickly once the sell off starts. I also don't worry about a mass sell off by China - who will they sell to and what are they going to buy instead?

[bills_fan]

If I'm an investor, I look at the available basket. Then, I'd see that no matter how badly Treasuries may look, there's not a single sovereign bond out there that rivals it. Again, if there was a near term fear of US Govt collapsing under the weight of its debt, you wouldn't be seeing sub 4% yields on the 10-yr notes.

 

Longer term, there are definitely issues, but they are manageable and will be managed. Congress will get religion very quickly once the sell off starts. I also don't worry about a mass sell off by China - who will they sell to and what are they going to buy instead?

 

 

Who will they sell to...anyone who will buy. The what will they buy instead is commodities.

 

You are right, there is no sovreign bond out there, which is why CHina is on record as calling for a world currency. If that happens, we are in trouble.

 

I don't think it will, I think we will inflate for a while, but not enough to truly piss off the Chinese, then drain the system of capital. Gas will be $5.00 a gallon, gold $1400 an ounce, milk/bread/eggs 30% above our current price and our debt more manageable. We will start a wage/price sprial, then raise interest rates to correct it. Volcker showed you how to kill inflation, thats the model. The higher interest rate will appease the Chinese/Russians/Middle East and we will inflate out of the housing crisis.