As a QB who does Edwards most remind you of

[Tcali]

To me its Joe Montana or Tom Brady with a quicker release and better wheels then both of them.

 

TE leads by example and what an example he makes. To be knocked out cold with the hit he took and then to come back showing zero fear and even more determination then ever is truly amazing. TE makes every player in the Bills locker room better just by his example, wow, what a warrior

better wheels than montana????????????? cuckoo cuckooo cuckooo

[JimmyPage]

By the end of preseason 2007, I was raving about the next great NFL quarterback to the people at work. After I got back from opening day I must have been pretty po'd that the Bills were still starting JP and let everyone at work know. One of my friends at work took my words and wrote them down & asked me to sign them. Here's what he wrote for me to sign:

"9/10/07

Trent Edwards is Joe Montana, Dan Marino & Tom Brady all in one player."

At that point I objected, since it didn't explain my opinion properly. I then wrote in why I felt that way:

"The coolness of Montana, The release of Marino, The mind of Brady."

I then signed it. It is sitting in a co-worker's desk & I have a photocopy hanging on my wall at work and have copies at home as evidence that I saw the greatness before he ever played in a regular season game.

13 days later I went to the game in New England and after Edwards entered the game & drove the Bills right down the field I told a Patriots fan that the moment Edwards entered the game was the Bills'equivalent of when Tom Brady replaced Drew Bledsoe for the Patriots in 2001. Ironically, it was September 23, 2001 in Foxboro when Brady entered the game to replace an injured Bledsoe and it was September 23, 2007 in Foxboro when Edwards entered the game to replace an injured Losman.

I said the day he was drafted that he was being brought in here to replace losman.

[Guest three3]

matt hasselbeck

[Guest dog14787]

better wheels than montana????????????? cuckoo cuckooo cuckooo

 

Montana's rushing stats his second year, he averaged 2.4 yards per carry with 15 games played while TE averaged 2.6 yards a carry through 16 games so far in his career. TE's longest in his first two years is 14 yards and Montana's longest in the first two years is 13 yards. Montana's first downs achieved 0, Trent Edwards first downs achieved 6.

 

What are you a cuckoo cuckoo clock?

[Orton's Arm]

I looked up Montana's career stats. He averaged 7.5 yards per pass attempt. His TD-INT ratio was 1.5.

 

This season, Trent Edwards is averaging 8.0 yards per pass attempt. His TD-INT ratio is 2.5.

 

Note: I'm not saying Trent is playing at a Montana-like level, yet. Trent doesn't look as polished as Montana, nor is he at Montana's level in terms of hitting receivers in perfect stride. The reason I mention the numbers Trent has put up this season is to show that he's further along in his development, and playing at a higher level, than some may realize.

[Fan in San Diego]

Fergy #12!

Great avatar ! Who are the Betty's ?

[The Dean]

Great avatar ! Who are the Betty's ?

 

 

I wondered that, too. Given his user name, it seems as though they may have some stubble, down below.

[Dan]

I tend to look think of QBs as being in types or categories. I'd say there are several types of QBs and I'll use some known examples:

 

1. The Thinker - does what's he'scoached to do; hits the receivers in stride; makes good decisisons; calm and cool under pressure. Best examples here are probably Montana and Brady.

 

2. The Gunslinger - changes the play alot; throws the long ball; fights for every play; sometimes seems erractic. Look no further than Jim Kelly.

 

3. The Game Manager - steady and careful with the ball; does exactly how he's coached; but has trouble when plays break down. Trent Dilfer.

 

4. The Scrambler - seems to prefer to run when the play breaks down; good passers but often poor at reading defenses. Vick or Cunningham come to mind.

 

5. The Passer - stands in the pocket, doesn't scramble; can make every throw in the book. Dan Marino is the peak of passers.

 

6. The Backup - can't put it together on a consistent basis; shows promise and plays well in one or all of the areas listed above, but can't do it with consistency. Scott Mitchell anyone.

 

 

OK. Perhaps there's a few more types, but that's a good start. Feel free to add your own. I would say that you could have a successful team and make the Super Bowl with any of those types - except maybe the backup. However, it's the team you put around that QB that makes the difference.

 

Given this line of reasoning, I'd put Trent in the Thinker category. So in that respect, he would resemble Brady or Montana. Will he have a career like Brady or Montana? That's a completely different question and depends upon so much more than just Trent. Does anyone think Montana has half the career he had without Rice, Taylor, Craig, Lot, etc.? Not to mention a coach that's able to put him in the right position to make those plays? As an example, I'd put Pennington in the Thinker category, as well (although you might be able to convince me that he's more of a Game Manager). Obviously, his career is not even close to Montana's. So the question is... does Trent end up closer to Montana or Pennington? I think his team mates and coaches will have much to say about that.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I tend to look think of QBs as being in types or categories. I'd say there are several types of QBs and I'll use some known examples:

 

1. The Thinker - does what's he'scoached to do; hits the receivers in stride; makes good decisisons; calm and cool under pressure. Best examples here are probably Montana and Brady.

 

2. The Gunslinger - changes the play alot; throws the long ball; fights for every play; sometimes seems erractic. Look no further than Jim Kelly.

 

3. The Game Manager - steady and careful with the ball; does exactly how he's coached; but has trouble when plays break down. Trent Dilfer.

 

4. The Scrambler - seems to prefer to run when the play breaks down; good passers but often poor at reading defenses. Vick or Cunningham come to mind.

 

5. The Passer - stands in the pocket, doesn't scramble; can make every throw in the book. Dan Marino is the peak of passers.

 

6. The Backup - can't put it together on a consistent basis; shows promise and plays well in one or all of the areas listed above, but can't do it with consistency. Scott Mitchell anyone.

 

 

OK. Perhaps there's a few more types, but that's a good start. Feel free to add your own. I would say that you could have a successful team and make the Super Bowl with any of those types - except maybe the backup. However, it's the team you put around that QB that makes the difference.

 

Given this line of reasoning, I'd put Trent in the Thinker category. So in that respect, he would resemble Brady or Montana. Will he have a career like Brady or Montana? That's a completely different question and depends upon so much more than just Trent. Does anyone think Montana has half the career he had without Rice, Taylor, Craig, Lot, etc.? Not to mention a coach that's able to put him in the right position to make those plays? As an example, I'd put Pennington in the Thinker category, as well (although you might be able to convince me that he's more of a Game Manager). Obviously, his career is not even close to Montana's. So the question is... does Trent end up closer to Montana or Pennington? I think his team mates and coaches will have much to say about that.

I rather like this line of reasoning, and I think that most quarterbacks would pretty clearly fall into one category or another.

 

My only critique is that perhaps The Game Manager and The Backup are actually one and the same. When you have a guy like Trent Dilfer who doesn't excel at enough different areas to be a good all-around quarterback (and therefore falls into The Backup category), you'll sometimes ask him to just take care of the ball and not mistakes, and let the rest of your team lead the way (and therefore he becomes The Game Manager). I have trouble thinking of a quarterback who clearly falls into the Game Manager category, who I don't think of as simply being inferior to the other types, and therefore can also fit into the Backup category.

 

Perhaps the Ravens simply found a way to win with a "backup" quarterback.

 

Great post, very interesting concept.

[mead107]

fRED FLINTSTONE .

[Dibs]

I tend to look think of QBs as being in types or categories. I'd say there are several types of QBs and I'll use some known examples:

 

1. The Thinker - does what's he'scoached to do; hits the receivers in stride; makes good decisisons; calm and cool under pressure. Best examples here are probably Montana and Brady.

 

2. The Gunslinger - changes the play alot; throws the long ball; fights for every play; sometimes seems erractic. Look no further than Jim Kelly.

 

3. The Game Manager - steady and careful with the ball; does exactly how he's coached; but has trouble when plays break down. Trent Dilfer.

 

4. The Scrambler - seems to prefer to run when the play breaks down; good passers but often poor at reading defenses. Vick or Cunningham come to mind.

 

5. The Passer - stands in the pocket, doesn't scramble; can make every throw in the book. Dan Marino is the peak of passers.

 

6. The Backup - can't put it together on a consistent basis; shows promise and plays well in one or all of the areas listed above, but can't do it with consistency. Scott Mitchell anyone.

 

 

OK. Perhaps there's a few more types, but that's a good start. Feel free to add your own. I would say that you could have a successful team and make the Super Bowl with any of those types - except maybe the backup. However, it's the team you put around that QB that makes the difference.

 

Given this line of reasoning, I'd put Trent in the Thinker category. So in that respect, he would resemble Brady or Montana. Will he have a career like Brady or Montana? That's a completely different question and depends upon so much more than just Trent. Does anyone think Montana has half the career he had without Rice, Taylor, Craig, Lot, etc.? Not to mention a coach that's able to put him in the right position to make those plays? As an example, I'd put Pennington in the Thinker category, as well (although you might be able to convince me that he's more of a Game Manager). Obviously, his career is not even close to Montana's. So the question is... does Trent end up closer to Montana or Pennington? I think his team mates and coaches will have much to say about that.

I really liked this.....good post.

[Dibs]

....My only critique is that perhaps The Game Manager and The Backup are actually one and the same......

I think you've got a point here. Perhaps 'The Game Manager' is really a good backup 'Thinker'(or 'Passer' maybe) that under the right situation can get the job done & not lose the game......but is not good enough for the ups & down of long term success.

[eastonbillsfan]

i don't think it's "how he throws the ball." it's also not just putting him in a pigeon hole of the type of QB trent is. there's more to it. he's a winner! he has your hopes up too right?

 

here's my take on why.

 

trent edwards is a smart, confident, and talented athlete. but he is also genuine and modest. that's the main reason we like him so much as bills fans. it's also why his team plays harder for him...a guy like that will always make those around him better. it's real leadership. whether he is trying to or not, this rare combination inspires fans and teammates. he has character.

 

being a great QB isn't just how you throw the ball. trent is effective in the huddle, under the center, in the pocket buying time and sensing pressure, avoiding sacks, throwing the ball, cheering on his team and acting as a front man. he's serious but he doesn't take him self too seriously. his parents raised him right.

 

that internal clock says get rid of the ball. the vision to see the field so he can go through his reads and throw to his check reciever...not as easy as it sounds...this comes from study. he moves just that little bit...enough to buy more time...don't need to be michael vick to get away just a little slide. don't need to throw the ball like jamarcus...just be accurate and put it on the numbers. all of that is important. but none of it matters as much as the respect his team and fans have for him.

 

trent is a bright guy. this intelligence is real and powerful on the field. being able to listen to your coaches and to execute what they are telling you to do...that's what he's been able to do...he's shown he can learn and study and get better. that's huge. pure athleticism? no. it transcends those with pure athleticism.

 

who does he remind me of?

 

another smarty...who avoided the pressure and got the ball down the field. didn't worry about stats. get the job done. accurate passes. effectiveness as a QB won games.

 

Sonny Jurgensen.

 

I'm not a skins fan but that guy won games and that's what Trent is doing for us. everyone is different but the pure cerebral excellence Trent has shown is his biggest plus. He understands what it takes to be a complete player and he isn't doing it to be the man...he just wants to win. it's great having him in Buffalo.

 

this is an exciting time. he's got our hopes up. he's just a great kid who gives us real reasons to cheer. we're pulling for a winner. thanks trent!

[The Dean]

I think you've got a point here. Perhaps 'The Game Manager' is really a good backup 'Thinker'(or 'Passer' maybe) that under the right situation can get the job done & not lose the game......but is not good enough for the ups & down of long term success.

 

 

I liked Dan's post (as usual) too. I'm not sure the categories are all-inclusive, or mutually exclusive...but they make work for many QBs and make for great discussion.

 

I think some QBs defy, or at least, bridge the categories: Steve Young was some Scambler and some Thinker. Brady was clearly a Thinker, but developed some Gunslinging abilities in the past few years.

 

A guy like Dan Fouts may be considered a Passer, but in many ways was a Game Manager, as he was perfect for that system.

 

Guys in the same grouping can be very good...or mediocre. So, I don't necessarily think that Game Managers are simply good backups. I think a good backup can come from any of these categories, but has a special mentality for coming in cold, with less than ideal preparation, and still play a good game. But, Game Manager-type QBs probably end up being the best backup QBs. Did that make sense to you, Dibs?

 

Favre is pure Gunslinger.

 

What was Elway?

[Dibs]

......But, Game Manager-type QBs probably end up being the best backup QBs. Did that make sense to you, Dibs?

 

Favre is pure Gunslinger.

 

What was Elway?

Sure did. I still feel a correlation between Game Manager & backup though. Of the 5 starter categories, the other four have the potential to win games on their own merits/skills.....the Game Manager doesn't. There are not many teams which remain content with a Game Manager at QB.....they are constantly trying to find one of the other types.

 

I'd say there is no doubt that Game Managers end up being the best backup QBs.....they might not be able to 'win it' for you coming off the bench.....but they are unlikely to 'lose it' either.

 

Elway?

Good question. He was Gunslinger when he needed to be....could scramble.....and showed that when he had the right environment could be a passer as well. IMO Elway was magic.

[The Dean]

Sure did. I still feel a correlation between Game Manager & backup though. Of the 5 starter categories, the other four have the potential to win games on their own merits/skills.....the Game Manager doesn't. There are not many teams which remain content with a Game Manager at QB.....they are constantly trying to find one of the other types.

 

I'd say there is no doubt that Game Managers end up being the best backup QBs.....they might not be able to 'win it' for you coming off the bench.....but they are unlikely to 'lose it' either.

 

Elway?

Good question. He was Gunslinger when he needed to be....could scramble.....and showed that when he had the right environment could be a passer as well. IMO Elway was magic.

 

It is true that most teams don't settle for a Game Manager (even a good one), that doesn't have some of the other qualities. I guess a great Game Manager ends up really being put into the Thinker category. In retrospect, some of the teams that did well with a Game Manager, only to dump him, pursuing the siren's call of the Gunslinger or Passer, would have been better off keeping their Manager for a few years.

[Cynical]

I was referring to the trajectory of his deep balls Trent doesnt lob bombs or at least he hasnt yet. He throws his deep balls on a line.

 

Kelly was tough. Trent took a huge pounding at stanford. He proved hes tough QB. But i agree that he hasnt had the opportunity to prove his toughness in the NFL.

 

In no way am I saying that trent edwards is already as good as those hall of famers. But the question was who does trent most remind you of. So I threw some of trents characteristics that remind of some HOF qbs.

 

Hopefully, he only gets better.

 

 

Kelly took a huge pounding in the USFL running the Run 'n Shoot. Never lost playing time. Heck, Kelly suffered a concussion and continued playing.

 

To compare Edward's toughness to Kelly is absurd. Right now, Edward is looking more like Chris Chandler.

 

Let's hope his past injuries are the exceptions, and not the rule.

[Dan]

Glad you guys liked my thoughts and see they generated some discussion. I certainly wouldn't claim that list to be all inclusive or set in stone in any way. I can definitely see where a Game Manager is a good Backup or vice versa. In thinking about it, I would say it's entirely possible for someone to switch their skill set as they progress through their career. Could we say the same thing about Elway? He seemed to begin his career as more of a Gunslinger, but seemed to mature more into a Thinker. What made Elway so good was he good no matter what you called it.

 

Steve Young is another good example of someone that doesn't fit so well into those categories. I thought about him as I made the initial post and wasn't sure where he'd be. He definitely had the Scrambler in him was a Thinker, and could even be a great Passer.

 

Peyton Manning was another one I thought of. He seems mostly Passer to me, but some Thinker as well.

 

Maybe the best QBs are a combination of several types and can excell in a number of situations?

[Dibs]

.....Maybe the best QBs are a combination of several types and can excell in a number of situations?

I think this is right on the money.

I find it hard to think of the best of the best that don't(when it's needed).....use their brains(Thinker).....take a gamble(Gunslinger)......scramble(though this one is lesser)......stand in the pocket picking apart opposing Ds(Passer)......or simply take what is given to them(Game Manager).

I figure HOF level QBs typically have a predominant style but have the ability to do most things......hence putting them in the HOF class.

 

At this point, perhaps TE is a Thinker who has shown some Game Manager and Passer ability.....with a smattering of scramble. I'd like to see some Gunslinger come out in the next few years......and also see him get into the HOF

[ProjectPat]

Bob Marley