Is anybody else not voting for McCain because of Palin?

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

I'm happy you responded the way you did. You sound upset that people keep using experience as a campaign tactic. Too bad that's one of history's longest tactics. And personally if Obama's lack of experience shies people away from him that seems more valid and legitimate to me than when people stay clear of McCain because he's republican.

 

Not really upset, actually admiring the tactic. Don't care much for the rhetoric.

[gmac17]

Stroke and heart attack can get anyone of any age. But there is a over 70% chance that a 72 year old man will not be alive in 4 years. Both VP choices are dweebs but ya have to think which is scarrier

 

this whole thread and nobody picked up on this little nugget? I think he is off by 50+%.....but hey

[Chilly]

Most people attribute McCain's demise to the economic crisis, saying that he was at least even with Obama and probably even a couple points ahead, but then the crash came and everyone jumped to Obama.

 

I think that is only half true, perhaps not even half.

 

The main and almost inarguable reason at that distinct point in time that McCain led in a few polls by a few points was the Sarah Palin selection. At that point, it was a phenomenon. She did fabulous at the convention, she completely re-energized the base, she gave undecideds and independents and leaners a good reason to re-evaluate McCain. It LOOKED like he completed the Hail Mary that he threw.

 

But that was also before she spoke, or anyone knew much about her. What she had done was perform, which she does and continues to do well. She appealed on paper as a true conservative and reformer. People were interested in her. It was at THAT point that economy crisis hit.

 

It was also at that point that people started to actually see her for what she was. She wasn't a shining star she was a shooting star and shockingly uninformed. Instead of people thinking that McCain made a brilliant and risky choice, they realized that McCain had made a stupid and reckless choice. And it was heightened by McCain's erratic actions when the financial crisis took all the headlines. When Palin couldn't answer a simple question, and McCain looked lost, there was a complete reversal of the momentum that Palin herself had built up.

 

In retrospect, he wouldn't have held that lead that she gave him even if the financial crisis wouldn't have happened. People would have seen her for the farce that she is with or without it, and it would have returned to a solid 3-5 lead for Obama, which is now a 7-10 point lead because of the economy.

 

Ultimately, Palin gave McCain a 5-6 point boost when she exploded on the scene. But she took from him all of that, plus 2-3 points when she imploded on the scene. Too many people IMO attribute that to the economy. I think it would have happened anyway, and the polls seem to support it. Her favorability, simply by having to answer questions about world events, has dropped 25 points. She now has a huge unfavorability rating, and it had little to do with the economy.

 

The mantra of this election year will be remembered as, "It's the stupidity, stupid."

 

 

Do you really think people will list Palin above the economy in the reason why they voted for Obama?

[Kelly the Dog]

 

Do you really think people will list Palin above the economy in the reason why they voted for Obama?

Not completely. Or mostly. But it is built in to their mistrust of McCain, or their siding with Obama at the end if they were unsure. Or the reason for the switch, like in Adelman and Buckley et al cases.

 

From Wall Street Journal/NBC poll yesterday:

 

28a. I'm going to read you several things that some people have said concern them about John McCain's

candidacy. Please tell me which TWO of these, if any, cause you the most concern. (IF MORE THAN TWO,

ASK:) Well, if you had to choose just two, which would you say cause you the MOST concern? +

THIS TABLE HAS BEEN RANKED BY THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE

His vice presidential running mate is not qualified to be president if the need arises........ 34 [246]

It seems likely that he would continue George W. Bush's policies....................................23 >

His economic policies would only benefit corporations and the wealthy ........................... 20

He is too committed to keeping a high troop presence in Iraq .........................................14

He is erratic and does not have the right temperament to be president ............................14

He is too willing to make false attacks on Obama.............................................................9

He is too old to be president.......................................................................

.................. 8

None of these cause concern (VOL)...........................................................................

....25

Not sure ................................................................................

....................................1

+ Results shown reflect responses among registered voters.

[The Senator]

I consider myself a political moderate and I am registed independent as a voter. I am not a fan of McCain, and I am not a big fan of Obama either, though I've long thought of him as the lesser of two evils.

 

However, my mind was made up 100% to vote Obama with McCain's VP selection. The fact is that, McCain might appear to be in good health, but when you elect a 72 year old man to be president you have to accept the distinct possibility that he will die of natural causes in office. Who knows how close he is to a major stroke or heart attack?

 

And if that was the case, then the leader of the free world would be a woman who can't name a single American periodical, considers Alaska's proximity to Russia to be foreign policy experience, and thinks being a PTA member is one of her qualifications for leadership. Besides that, she just comes across as a complete idiot whenever she speaks. I'm aware that it's partially due to her accent, which it's wrong to judge somebody about...but half of what she says is just political right-wing buzzwords.

 

Bottomline is, I CANNOT with good conscience vote for McCain knowing his veep could very well be handed the presidency some day.

 

Anybody with me?

Holy crap, remind me to put a stop on that last check to Cornell - the place has obviously gone to sh-- since Fred Marcham, L. Pearce Williams, and Walter LaFeber held court there.

 

You are actually making the argument that you 'CANNOT with good conscience' vote for someone who IS qualified because you think his running mate is unqualified, therefore you WILL in good conscience vote for someone equally unqualified as that running mate you eschew? (Palin is unqualified and could become President, so instead of voting for McCain, who IS qualified, I'll just vote for an equally unqualified 2-term state senator instead?)

 

Help me understand the logic - you know McCain's qualified, but Palin could become president, so instead of voting for the qualified guy, you'd vote for someone no more qualified than Palin?

 

Please tell me you're a 'Hotelie' - I'll be less worried about what's going on down there.

[Chilly]

Not completely. Or mostly. But it is built in to their mistrust of McCain, or their siding with Obama at the end if they were unsure. Or the reason for the switch, like in Adelman and Buckley et al cases.

 

From Wall Street Journal/NBC poll yesterday:

 

28a. I'm going to read you several things that some people have said concern them about John McCain's

candidacy. Please tell me which TWO of these, if any, cause you the most concern. (IF MORE THAN TWO,

ASK:) Well, if you had to choose just two, which would you say cause you the MOST concern? +

THIS TABLE HAS BEEN RANKED BY THE HIGHEST PERCENTAGE

His vice presidential running mate is not qualified to be president if the need arises........ 34 [246]

It seems likely that he would continue George W. Bush's policies....................................23 >

His economic policies would only benefit corporations and the wealthy ........................... 20

He is too committed to keeping a high troop presence in Iraq .........................................14

He is erratic and does not have the right temperament to be president ............................14

He is too willing to make false attacks on Obama.............................................................9

He is too old to be president.......................................................................

.................. 8

None of these cause concern (VOL)...........................................................................

....25

Not sure ................................................................................

....................................1

+ Results shown reflect responses among registered voters.

 

Crappy question. I don't think Palin is near the top concern about McCain, but I'd pick that answer based on the responses they give you to choose from.

[BillsWatch]

Stroke and heart attack can get anyone of any age. But there is a over 70% chance that a 72 year old man will not be alive in 4 years. Both VP choices are dweebs but ya have to think which is scarrier

 

Those statistics are those for average 72 year old men including those with welfare and medicare doctors, no money for health insurance, etc. McCain for all his faults (specifically the VP pick which reversed my opinion of him and I supported him against Bush) is in decent shape for age and will have best money US can borrow to pay for. Statistic does not apply to individuals.

[Kelly the Dog]

Crappy question. I don't think Palin is near the top concern about McCain, but I'd pick that answer based on the responses they give you to choose from.

I agree it's a crappy worded question. But the answers are rather astounding.

 

She also now has a 55% rate as being unqualified to be President, if the need arises, and 40% qualified. I don't think it's the main reason. What I said in the post was that it probably made about a 5 point (workable) advantage for Obama into an 8+ point landslide.

 

Obama already held an advantage in the economy. And part of the "erratic" behavior that people are attributing to his actions during the crisis I think are just as much a response to his erratic choice of Palin. In other words, if Obama gained 4 points during that period, I think 2 were because of the economy and 2 were because of the backlash to Palin once people realized who she really was.

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

Holy crap, remind me to put a stop on that last check to Cornell - the place has obviously gone to sh-- since Fred Marcham, L. Pearce Wiiliams, and Walter LaFebre held court there.

 

You are actually making the argument that you 'CANNOT with good conscience' vote for someone who IS qualified because you think his running mate is unqualified, therefore you WILL in good conscience vote for someone equally unqualified as that running mate you eschew? (Palin is unqualified and could become President, so instead of voting for McCain, who IS qualified, I'll just vote for an equally unqualified 2-term state senator instead?)

 

Help me understand the logic - you know McCain's qualified, but Palin could become president, so instead of voting for the qualified guy, you'd vote for someone no more qualified than Palin?

 

Please tell me you're a 'Hotelie' - I'll be less worried about what's going on down there.

 

I never said I wouldn't vote for McCain because Palin is unqualified, I said I wouldn't vote for McCain because Palin is an absolute idiot. I said that Palin lists the PTA as a qualification of leadership. That was an example of an asinine thing she said, not me attacking her qualifications.

 

Obama, on the other hand, is both intelligent and an eloquent speaker. I'd much rather have an intelligent/capable person in office than one who is qualified.

 

You are acting as if I said I was going to vote for McCain until he chose Palin. I said that I was undecided, but leaning toward Obama and that this pushed me over the edge. Also, I lost respect for McCain when he chose Palin. Clearly, he didn't choose the best candidate for VP, he simply chose somebody who he though might garner some celebrity and perhaps steal the votes of some Hillary supporters. (This worked for a while in the polls, but doesn't seem to be any more.)

 

And no, I'm not a Hotelie, but don't disrespect them because they work hard just like everybody else here.

 

Besides that, I won't pander to you and defend myself as an intelligent person against your insults. From what you said about sending a check to Cornell, I'll assume you went here? Frankly that makes me more worried about the alumni than the current students.

[The Senator]

I never said I wouldn't vote for McCain because Palin is unqualified, I said I wouldn't vote for McCain because Palin is an absolute idiot. I said that Palin lists the PTA as a qualification of leadership. That was an example of an asinine thing she said, not me attacking her qualifications.

 

Obama, on the other hand, is both intelligent and an eloquent speaker. I'd much rather have an intelligent/capable person in office than one who is qualified.

 

You are acting as if I said I was going to vote for McCain until he chose Palin. I said that I was undecided, but leaning toward Obama and that this pushed me over the edge. Also, I lost respect for McCain when he chose Palin. Clearly, he didn't choose the best candidate for VP, he simply chose somebody who he though might garner some celebrity and perhaps steal the votes of some Hillary supporters. (This worked for a while in the polls, but doesn't seem to be any more.)

 

And no, I'm not a Hotelie, but don't disrespect them because they work hard just like everybody else here.

 

Besides that, I won't pander to you and defend myself as an intelligent person against your insults. From what you said about sending a check to Cornell, I'll assume you went here? Frankly that makes me more worried about the alumni than the current students.

My advice to you, as it is to all young idealists - listen more, talk less. When you listen, you learn; when you talk, you simply reveal all that you don't know.

 

Good luck down there - it's one of the easier Ivies to get in, and probably the toughest to finish. You really should be at Uris right now, instead of here.

 

GO BIG RED!!!!

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

My advice to you, as it is to all young idealists - listen more, talk less. When you listen, you learn; when you talk, you simply reveal all that you don't know.

 

Good luck down there - it's one of the easier Ivies to get in, and probably the toughest to finish. You really should be at Uris right now, instead of here.

 

GO BIG RED!!!!

 

Yes, GO BIG RED indeed...upsetting football loss to Colgate on Saturday. I'm the most interested in women's basketball, as I do their play by play announcing. Unfortunately, the best player on the team just quit so she could focus on track. Might not make it back to the NCAA tourney this year.

 

And I probably should be at Uris. If only I could major in TBD.

[The Senator]

Yes, GO BIG RED indeed...upsetting football loss to Colgate on Saturday. I'm the most interested in women's basketball, as I do their play by play announcing. Unfortunately, the best player on the team just quit so she could focus on track. Might not make it back to the NCAA tourney this year.

 

And I probably should be at Uris. If only I could major in TBD.

And worry about the alums when we stop writing the checks - because of us, you never had to sleep in U-Hall 2.

 

Will you be sleeping out for hockey tix at Lynah? It's a bitchin' good time. Got Niagara U. twice, but looks like it during intercession?

[SageAgainstTheMachine]

And worry about the alums when we stop writing the checks - because of us, you never had to sleep in U-Hall 2.

 

Will you be sleeping out for hockey tix at Lynah? It's a bitchin' good time. Got Niagara U. twice, but looks like it during intercession?

 

Even better, I've got a free ticket to any game I wish to attend (season long press pass)

[ExiledInIllinois]

can we dump Palin and Biden and have Obama and McCain be Co-Presidents

 

 

Under the original US Constitution that is how it worked... The loser became VP... I think the 12th Admendment changed that?

[Kelly the Dog]

Yeah, this woman isn't too stupid

[Chilly]

I agree it's a crappy worded question. But the answers are rather astounding.

 

She also now has a 55% rate as being unqualified to be President, if the need arises, and 40% qualified. I don't think it's the main reason. What I said in the post was that it probably made about a 5 point (workable) advantage for Obama into an 8+ point landslide.

 

Obama already held an advantage in the economy. And part of the "erratic" behavior that people are attributing to his actions during the crisis I think are just as much a response to his erratic choice of Palin. In other words, if Obama gained 4 points during that period, I think 2 were because of the economy and 2 were because of the backlash to Palin once people realized who she really was.

 

We'll see on exit polls.

[erynthered]

We'll see on exit polls.

 

Check RCow on how those worked out last Pres. election.

[Chilly]

Check RCow on how those worked out last Pres. election.

 

Internal dem numbers? Oh yeah, those will be accurate.

[Kelly the Dog]

Internal dem numbers? Oh yeah, those will be accurate.

I don't really trust many exit poll numbers. This is a pretty decent evaluation.

 

http://news.yahoo.com/s/politico/20081021/pl_politico/14778

[1billsfan]

I agree it's a crappy worded question. But the answers are rather astounding.

 

She also now has a 55% rate as being unqualified to be President, if the need arises, and 40% qualified. I don't think it's the main reason. What I said in the post was that it probably made about a 5 point (workable) advantage for Obama into an 8+ point landslide.

 

Obama already held an advantage in the economy. And part of the "erratic" behavior that people are attributing to his actions during the crisis I think are just as much a response to his erratic choice of Palin. In other words, if Obama gained 4 points during that period, I think 2 were because of the economy and 2 were because of the backlash to Palin once people realized who she really was.

 

 

The Obama kool-aid drinkers and mass media (which of course we all know is a redundant statement) are absolutely petrified of Sara Palin. The anger, bile and vitriol aimed at her is so transparent. The levels it has now reached have now become embarrassing...

 

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/...atin_palin.html

 

This woman has been a governor for two years and has what, an 85% approval rating? But she somehow is as dumb as a bag of rocks and can't compare to the geniusness of either Obama or Biden. You need to step away from the kool-aid and get some fresh air. I'm sorry, but all a Senator's job entails is talking and voting and in the case of Obama he couldn't even accomplish that 133 times when he was an Illinois Senator. What's scary is the thought of Obama having to actually sit down and work a real job instead of walking up to a podium and giving a speech on the campaign trail which is pretty much all he's done in his political life.