Is it the OL or is it Marshawn?

[Bleed Bills Blue]

Jackson had the long run in one game this year 22 yards against St. Louis

Lynch had the long run in every other game;

21 against Seattle Jackson had a 6 yard run

11 against Jacksonville Jackson had a 7 yard run

14 against Oakland Jackson had a 10 yard run

22 against Arizona Jackson had a 5 yard run

19 against San Siego Jackson had a 7 yard run

 

The running game is still a work in progress and you can point out at least twice in every game where the back hit the wrong hole or didn't hit the hole fast enough.

Jackson has had success with YAC in the short passing game. I think perhaps some folks mis-remember some of those as running plays.

[macaroni]

Jackson had the long run in one game this year 22 yards against St. Louis

Lynch had the long run in every other game;

21 against Seattle Jackson had a 6 yard run

11 against Jacksonville Jackson had a 7 yard run

14 against Oakland Jackson had a 10 yard run

22 against Arizona Jackson had a 5 yard run

19 against San Siego Jackson had a 7 yard run

 

Wow .... thanks for the stats. No "knock" on Lynch, I like he's one of us, but I've always THOUGHT Jackson ran better as far as the "big" gainers. I thought Lynch was better than great to get the needed 1 - 3 yard smash, but Jackson excelled on the flashier bigger yardage runs. I'm not one to check stats much so that was just a perception of mine.

 

I find it weird that I've formed that opinion ....... maybe it's their running style ....... Jackson being more fluid, and Lynch being more of a "rock em sock em" type.

[BillsfaninFl]

Jackson had the long run in one game this year 22 yards against St. Louis

Lynch had the long run in every other game;

21 against Seattle Jackson had a 6 yard run

11 against Jacksonville Jackson had a 7 yard run

14 against Oakland Jackson had a 10 yard run

22 against Arizona Jackson had a 5 yard run

19 against San Siego Jackson had a 7 yard run

 

The running game is still a work in progress and you can point out at least twice in every game where the back hit the wrong hole or didn't hit the hole fast enough.

 

Good points. When I look back at a lot of the runs, I see Jackson bursting to the line a little faster than Marshawn, but the key thing I see is that the holes are too small to begin with. Marshawn tends to drag people a little farther, but most often, both of them make contact at the line. I see the weakpoint as being Fowler in the center. Runs up the middle are tough to do when the guards push forward but the center does not. It appears to be rare when Fowler handles a defensive lineman without help. This makes creating holes very difficult. We need to draft a center.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

Just blame Jason Peters.

 

The team needs to improve it's total rushing yards.

[colin]

83% passing has got to mean the d we faced was up on the line against the run, like ours was most of the day.

[Fan in San Diego]

I think the other teams have been stacking the box more when ML is in their. Jackson tends to get more of the playaction pass plays. screens and dumpoffs. ML gets more between the tackle plays. Turk needs to get more unpredictable and give ML they play action pass dumpsoffs.

Speaking of Turk, he has been getting more predictable with every game. He is becoming way to run run pass type of a playcaller. Where are those slants ? Passes to TE's etc.

[StupidNation]

Jackson needs more carries as he averages more per carry, both last year and this year. Jackson doesn't side-step and goes forward, Lynch is a home-run big play or little to no yards. Lynch has great effort, but has less vision than Jackson.

 

There is only one way to know, and that is if Jackson starts. Jackson did start one game, and pulled up a 5.1 yard per carry on 16 carries. The difference was if you take away his long carry he's still at 4ypc. Do that with Lynch and he's always around 2.5-3.

 

For the first half of last game he was around 2.5 yards per carry.

 

You have 2 options:

-Sign FAs and play them mid-season

-Change the RB

 

Changing the RB for a game will expose more thoroughly what's happening. If you watched last game they both averaged 3.7, but the difference was Jackson highest was 7 yards so he was constantly gaining ground every touch, whereas Marshawn didn't.

 

Stop the with BS that Lynch runs hard. So freaking what! Last time I checked Rudy didn't make it to the pros either. Effort is great, but vision and talent with effort is superior. Give Jackson a shot.

[Preston Ridlehuber]

I think the other teams have been stacking the box more when ML is in their. Jackson tends to get more of the playaction pass plays. screens and dumpoffs. ML gets more between the tackle plays. Turk needs to get more unpredictable and give ML they play action pass dumpsoffs.

Speaking of Turk, he has been getting more predictable with every game. He is becoming way to run run pass type of a playcaller. Where are those slants ? Passes to TE's etc.

 

Against San Diego;

25 first down plays, 10 passes, 15 runs before last drive to kill clock

12 of 25 completions to backs or tight ends

Marshawn Lynch 4 receptions

Fred Jackson 3

We don't have the physical receivers needed to run slants, especially against a team like the Chargers with big physical corners.

[Fan in San Diego]

Against San Diego;

25 first down plays, 10 passes, 15 runs before last drive to kill clock

12 of 25 completions to backs or tight ends

Marshawn Lynch 4 receptions

Fred Jackson 3

We don't have the physical receivers needed to run slants, especially against a team like the Chargers with big physical corners.

 

Interesting stats. I dont agree with the statement that we dont have the WR's or TE's to run slant patterns. Slants are all about timing and body placement issues, mainly getting the WR's body inbetween the ball and the defender. It doesn't matter about the size of the defenders IMHO.

[Fan in San Diego]

Against San Diego;

25 first down plays, 10 passes, 15 runs before last drive to kill clock

12 of 25 completions to backs or tight ends

Marshawn Lynch 4 receptions

Fred Jackson 3

We don't have the physical receivers needed to run slants, especially against a team like the Chargers with big physical corners.

 

Do you have the 2nd and 3rd downs stats available?

[Preston Ridlehuber]

Do you have the 2nd and 3rd downs stats available?

 

All you have to is go to espn.com, scoreboard and then play by play chart...

[thebug]

Both, while the OL needs to open up some more holes, he needs to hit them when they are open. I was sitting in the endzone last weekend and noticed he misses a couple of good holes because he wanted to bounce it outside.

[kota]

Marshawn Lynch isn't slow. It's the OL. If Lendale White or Steven Jackson can have 80 yard touchdown runs Marshawn Lynch can. There have been 3-4 long run plays called back due to holding which is an indication that the line is struggling.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

Speaking of Turk, he has been getting more predictable with every game. He is becoming way to run run pass type of a playcaller. Where are those slants ? Passes to TE's etc.

 

 

I don't know, I thought lining up 2 TE's, 1 FB and 1 RB and then throwing a fade to Evans was pretty unpredictable. But hey, maybe I'm smoking crack....

[StupidNation]

Marshawn Lynch isn't slow. It's the OL.

 

Just like Atlanta pre and post Turner?

 

If Lendale White or Steven Jackson can have 80 yard touchdown runs Marshawn Lynch can. There have been 3-4 long run plays called back due to holding which is an indication that the line is struggling.

 

Jackson has faster playing speed than Lynch. Lynch isn't slow, but he isn't considered elite in the fast or quick categories.

 

Freddie Jackson, right now, is a better runner. Why not see if it's the OL or Lynch?

[Big Hurt]

Lynch is as good as Steven Jackson in my mind. One of the problem that caused the lack of success with running the ball is the center, Fowler. In the last game against the Chargers with Preston playing center, I noticed that the OL was able to generate more push. In the past on similar plays, they would get pushed back. I also noticed that they were running some pitch out and sweep, which put Marshall in space. With more running room, he was able to generate more long runs. I understand it may appear that Jackson was getting longer runs. But a running play on third down vs. 1st and 2nd down are quite different. On third and long, the defense may not expect the run as much and the safeties may play a little deeper. So unless I see Jackson plays the first two downs and gain long run consistently, I don't think is fair to make that comparison. I hope that the Bills will keep Preston at center, and be more creative with the running game. They will need a good ground game when the weather gets cold.

[BUFFALOTONE]

Or how about the fact that when Lynch is in there he sees 8 in the box plus a run blitz and when Freddie is in they tend to empty out and play the pass. Which is why we run the draw and screen with Freddie.

[keepthefaith]

This is a great question. Thanks for starting the thread.

 

If two running backs have virtually the same average yards per carry, I blame the O-Line. Jackson's average and Marshawn's are becoming more the same. We have had lots of "reasons" for excusing the O-Line (Peters' late arrival, Fowler's injury, Brad Butler's injury, etc.), but it's more and more their fault.

 

That said, I will bet that, as Edwards has more 83% passing games, teams won't cheat up a safety or put 8 in the box, and the running backs will get their 100 yard games.

 

Defenses can continue to play close to the line of scrimmage because Trent's targets are not deep. The weakness of this offensive scheme is that it does not often force the defense to commit more defenders deep in coverage. That allows them to key on the run game without a big risk of getting beat deep. Marshawn simply isn't running through anything more than very small holes. What yards he gets he does mostly on his own.

[Captain Quint]

Freddie Jackson, right now, is a better runner. Why not see if it's the OL or Lynch?

 

If you reverse those roles, I really think that Jackson struggles just like Lynch. Jackson's a change of pace back and he compliments Lynch well. Once OC's start to gameplan for Jackson like they do for Lynch, I think Jackson struggles more than Lynch is now. Jackson has the element of surprise on his side right now, but if he were consistently an every down back, he would suddenly become very average, in my opinion.

 

I think the OL is the faulty party here, but we aren't real bad off at RB. Right now, we're ranked 23rd in rushing, averaging exactly 100 yards a game, and 13th in passing. I don't think that this is a team that's going to lead the league in anything at the end of the season (or even top 5), but our record will show how balanced a team we are.

[Big Hurt]

Defenses can continue to play close to the line of scrimmage because Trent's targets are not deep. The weakness of this offensive scheme is that it does not often force the defense to commit more defenders deep in coverage. That allows them to key on the run game without a big risk of getting beat deep. Marshawn simply isn't running through anything more than very small holes. What yards he gets he does mostly on his own.

 

 

If the defense plays 8 in the box with blitz and stuff, unless someone get open immediately, Trend won't have time to wait for a long play to develop. So he has to check down to the backs or TE. Obviously if the OL can pick up the blitz to get Trend more time, he will go long. It depends on what the defense gives him. The important thing is to be able to move the chain. I really love those 15 plays drive that kill 8, 9 minutes off the clock. It kept our defense off the field and throw the other team's offense off their game. So if the defense like to stack the box, let them do that. Trend will take them apart one way or the other.