A Few Thoughts About The Game.....

[BLZFAN4LIFE]

The clock no longer stops on OB plays until the last 5:00 of the game. On the play you're referring to there was about 4:50 left when Marshawn ran OB so he probably didn't even realize they'd gone under the 5:00 mark.

That being said, yes he should have stayed in and he should have delivered a blow while doing it.

I was pretty upset with Marshawn for not staying in bounds on two carries in a row. You take the risk of decapitation around here if you bring up something negative after a win, but since it did come up, I think the coaching staff obviously needs to address this issue with ML.

As for the side-stepping that some have mentioned, I see it more as Marshawn just looking for holes that aren't there. That East-West movement, IMO, is not a "tendency" problem for Marshawn. It's just that there are no holes for him to hit. O-line's fault, not ML.

[The Dean]

I agree to a point, but look at the patsies. It is impossible for them to play as well without Brady, and it even effects both sides of the ball imo.

 

That said, I am going to bow out of this. I don't want to talk about JP, other than to say that I hope that he can produce if this team needs him.

 

 

I don't think the Pats* are a great team, any longer. This year speaks to that, IMO. But, looking at the Bills' last game, the O Line had already failed and contributed to getting their starting QB injured. Still, they were only trailing by 7 points in the 3rd quarter. If that isn't enough of an incentive to get the team fired up, there is an issue with the team.

 

Honestly, I think they get beat in that game no matter who is at QB: Trent, Brett, Bart, Joe Willy, Peyton or Jim K. But, if you think the team would have won that game, because they would have somehow become a different team (defense especially) with a different QB, you are essentially questioning the character of the team, IMO. This isn't directed at you Bill, as I believe you even said that JP wasn't the major factor in the Bills losing to Arizona.

[YOOOOOO]

I don't think the Pats* are a great team, any longer. This year speaks to that, IMO. But, looking at the Bills' last game, the O Line had already failed and contributed to getting their starting QB injured. Still, they were only trailing by 7 points in the 3rd quarter. If that isn't enough of an incentive to get the team fired up, there is an issue with the team.

 

Honestly, I think they get beat in that game no matter who is at QB: Trent, Brett, Bart, Joe Willy, Peyton or Jim K. But, if you think the team would have won that game, because they would have somehow become a different team (defense especially) with a different QB, you are essentially questioning the character of the team, IMO. This isn't directed at you Bill, as I believe you even said that JP wasn't the major factor in the Bills losing to Arizona.

 

 

 

Hey Dean let it go...You wont change anyone mind on that game, thats set on blaming it on JP...It aint gonna happen...

 

 

Lets just be happy we got our QB of the future right now in Trent Edwards....

[EC-Bills]

Has anyone heard anything about Moorman?

 

Took a couple of midol and was fine.

[dave mcbride]

That's the second swipe at McKelvin in this thread. Other than the one TD pass, where he was clearly beaten, I can't find any major flaws in his game today. Can you tell me where he disappointed you?

 

Here's the play-by-play, if you need help:

 

http://www.nfl.com/gamecenter/playbyplay?g...p;override=true

Dean: I certainly don't think McKelvin is a poor player. In fact, I'm very optimistic. It's just that after watching football all my life, I can say with some certainty that rookie CBs are as likely to be exploited as the sun rising in the a.m. It's just a tough position to learn. Both TDs came against him, and the three other throws into the endzone (the offensive PI play, the coverage incompletion against Gates before the TD to Jackson, and the INT when the coverage on Gates (not by Mitchell) was blanket like) were against people not named Leodis McKelvin. I think the proper thing to do is tip our hats to the guys covering and accept that a rookie CB is going to struggle.

[The Dean]

Hey Dean let it go...You wont change anyone mind on that game, thats set on blaming it on JP...It aint gonna happen...

 

 

Lets just be happy we got our QB of the future right now in Trent Edwards....

 

 

Oh, I am, YOOOOOO, I am.

[The Dean]

Dean: I certainly don't think McKelvin is a poor player. In fact, I'm very optimistic. It's just that after watching football all my life, I can say with some certainty that rookie CBs are as likely to be exploited as the sun rising in the a.m. It's just a tough position to learn. Both TDs came against him, and the three other throws into the endzone (the offensive PI play, the coverage incompletion against Gates before the TD to Jackson, and the INT when the coverage on Gates (not by Mitchell) was blanket like) were against people not named Leodis McKelvin. I think the proper thing to do is tip our hats to the guys covering and accept that a rookie CB is going to struggle.

 

 

Agreed. But, that he didn't get chewed up (on the 2nd TD he had very good coverage) today should be a positive sign for him, and the team.

 

If he stunk out there at CB, he would have been torn apart by SD. The D, overall (including the DBs) played quite well, today, That they did it with Leodis starting at CB, and without Youboty is cause for celebration...not for trashing the rookie.

[UConn James]

I have stayed out of this little debate, but that is a reach and a half Brian.

 

 

Taken out of context, that sentence is a reach, I agree. But, I think my entire post speaks for itself. If the rest of the team plays poorer (O line blocks worse, WR don't run routes as well, D plays less agressive, etc) because of a change in the starting QB, or any player, it speaks poorly of the team. GREAT teams actually step up and play better, when one of their best is out.

 

Regardless of the 'Everyone gets a golden star' attitude you're taking, Dean, I'll ask.... You're saying it's never possible to have a time when a great team can be dragged down by one poor performer (and, at such a key position)?

 

All I know is, I watched the game last week and thought to myself, especially late in the game, "I've seen this movie before." Three-and-outs, sacks, fumbles.... In a football game, each play is built on the foundation of the plays that came before. There's something that happens when JP steps into that huddle that he's looking to play his game, which is long-ball to Lee first, anything else............ second. Far be it from me to second-guess the coaching staff that's playing the guy they're stuck with, but JP is not a good fit for this offense.

 

Trent comes in today with virtually the same roster (actually, a weaker defense/ST) and manages the game, doesn't make stupid mistakes, and keeps their offense off the field. It's a completely different style of play that impacts everything else that's happening and that the team is able to thrive in.

[The Dean]

Regardless of the 'Everyone gets a golden star' attitude you're taking, Dean, I'll ask.... You're saying it's never possible to have a time when a great team can be dragged down by one poor performer (and, at such a key position)?

 

All I know is, I watched the game last week and thought to myself, especially late in the game, "I've seen this movie before." Three-and-outs, sacks, fumbles....

 

 

By that time, the game was all but decided. The D failed to step up and stop Arizona when they were fresh, after the Bills scored...the entire game, basically. I'm certainly not defending JP's play the last quarter and 1/2 of that game. I am simply pointing out the fact that the D didn't just start failing then...they failed the entire game. The O Line didn't start failing when JP came in...they are part of the reason JP was even in the game.

 

Let's not rehash the Arizona game. This is a time to celebrate. Trent played great, as did the rest of the team. (Sure it wasn't a perfect game, and as rabid fans we tend to point out the mistakes that could have been avoided, even though the team won...no problem, IMO.) To bring up JP's play from last week (which was a mixed bag, to be sure) after a game like this, and try to make it somehow relevant to today's team performance is just crazy, IMO.

 

I still can't believe there are people trying to run Lynch out of the starting slot.

[MRW]

Trent comes in today with virtually the same roster (actually, a weaker defense/ST) and manages the game, doesn't make stupid mistakes, and keeps their offense off the field. It's a completely different style of play that impacts everything else that's happening and that the team is able to thrive in.

I would give this much more credence if the defense had started strong (or even mediocre) last week and had gotten worn down by the inability of the offense to stay on the field. But given the way the game last week unfolded this really looks to me like a case of making the game fit a preconceived storyline vs. actually fitting the facts.

 

JP was not great last week. But this continued focus on his play vs. Edwards as if QB play was the determining factor in the outcome against Arizona IMO ignores the facts, and to argue that the play of the quarterback was the only difference between last week and this week is simply inaccurate.

 

Is Edwards better than Losman? Absolutely, and moreover he seems to be improving every week while JP still has the same mix of up-and-down plays that have defined his career. But I don't think anyone should overlook the improved play of the team as a whole in order to make an argument about the QBs.

[The Dean]

I would give this much more credence if the defense had started strong (or even mediocre) last week and had gotten worn down by the inability of the offense to stay on the field. But given the way the game last week unfolded this really looks to me like a case of making the game fit a preconceived storyline vs. actually fitting the facts.

 

JP was not great last week. But this continued focus on his play vs. Edwards as if QB play was the determining factor in the outcome against Arizona IMO ignores the facts, and to argue that the play of the quarterback was the only difference between last week and this week is simply inaccurate.

 

Is Edwards better than Losman? Absolutely, and moreover he seems to be improving every week while JP still has the same mix of up-and-down plays that have defined his career. But I don't think anyone should overlook the improved play of the team as a whole in order to make an argument about the QBs.

 

 

Said it better than I did. Bravo

[JDG]

According to the NFL play-by-play, Lynch was pushed out of bounds:

 

I don't really remember the play, though.

 

By my watch of the play, it looked like it was designed to be an off-tackle type play that Lynch bounced to the outside. Yes, Lynch was pushed out of bounds. However, a slight difference between a great runner and a very good runner, is that in that situation a great runner makes sure to go down in bounds and keep that clock running.

 

As for the 3rd and 1 @ 10:19 of the 4th quarter, I agree that Lynch probably makes that 1st down. I won't bash Jauron/Turk for that call (and don't think you did, either), but I was surprised when Jackson got that the ball on that play.

 

It certainly was a completely defensible call, although for all of Fred Jackson's numerous abilities, I have not been impressed by his ability to make tough carries in "logjam" type situations like 3rd-and-short. I personally thought that this was a great opportunity to throw a pass (which would surely have gotten Jauron excoriated around here had that failed). The Bills had just taken a 6 point lead, and then stopped the Chargers. I really thought this was a drive to take control of the game - the Bills have not generated good running game push all season, and had not done so today. My second choice would have been to give it to Lynch for a tough yard, and my third choice would have been to give it to Jackson on a toss or stretch type play. Giving it to Jackson for a tough yard would have been my fourth option in that situation, albeit still a defensible one.

 

The clock no longer stops on OB plays until the last 5:00 of the game. On the play you're referring to there was about 4:50 left when Marshawn ran OB so he probably didn't even realize they'd gone under the 5:00 mark.

That being said, yes he should have stayed in and he should have delivered a blow while doing it.

 

The ball was snapped at 4:57. Again, a great running back needs to know the situation, and how to help his team with little details. That's part of the reason why they study film all week. The Bills had just run down the play clock from the previous play, so Lynch should have known what was going on.

 

JDG

[The Dean]

The ball was snapped at 4:57. Again, a great running back needs to know the situation, and how to help his team with little details. That's part of the reason why they study film all week. The Bills had just run down the play clock from the previous play, so Lynch should have known what was going on.

 

JDG

 

Were the visible clocks even working? According to an interview after the game, Trent said they were playing without a clock, on the field.

[bbills17]

1) Forget stats. I don't remember seeing Marshawn Lynch play a better, more complete game. He picked up blitzes, and was as clutch as a m.f.!!!

 

If people did this more often and stopped looking at meaningless stats they would have realized Willis was a bum long before he was traded, that Trent was/is 10X the QB that JP is, and that Marshawn has been superb this season (forget his YPC people).

[bizell]

SD's pass rush without Merroidman is atrocious. haha @ them. their loss is our gain!

[Fan in Chicago]

of course, the jags would be a winning team if we lost to them...

Likewise with SD. I think with every win, the reasons to explain away the Bills' success is fading. Beating the Rams and Raiders was no small feat considering the enthusiasm they played with against us. In the chat room, I started the top five reasons the Bills won and they are something like:

(1) SD is a West coast team traveling to an East coast time zone

(2) Chargers were without a Chambers

(3) They were having a letdown after a big game last week/ looking forward to London/ ware in a trap game

(4) Their defense is not at full strength without Merriman

(5) The power outage in addition to the above four items played havoc with their play calling ability

 

Any I missed ?

[Tcali]

I would give this much more credence if the defense had started strong (or even mediocre) last week and had gotten worn down by the inability of the offense to stay on the field. But given the way the game last week unfolded this really looks to me like a case of making the game fit a preconceived storyline vs. actually fitting the facts.

 

JP was not great last week. But this continued focus on his play vs. Edwards as if QB play was the determining factor in the outcome against Arizona IMO ignores the facts, and to argue that the play of the quarterback was the only difference between last week and this week is simply inaccurate.

 

Is Edwards better than Losman? Absolutely, and moreover he seems to be improving every week while JP still has the same mix of up-and-down plays that have defined his career. But I don't think anyone should overlook the improved play of the team as a whole in order to make an argument about the QBs.

 

 

TE > JP ?? -thats a bold statement

[JimmyPage]

Holy crap, lets get to the playoffs before comparing a second year player to the 7th first ballot hall of fame quarterback ever. Come on. I think Trent is a breath of fresh air after the compost that has circulated through the QB position since Jimbo but I guess "potential" is the operative word here. Plus, Jimbo did so much more for the city of Buffalo than just play QB for the Bills. I'm very happy with Trent's development so far and think we are in good shape for the future if he can stay healthy.

I just want to see him break a cornerback's leg after he throws a pick like Jimbo did

 

RTB

1. Kelly had a far far better supporting cast.

2. I'm not convinced Kelly did more for the city of Buffalo, In fact at first he made it clear it was the last place he wanted to play. And even as a multi-millionare he stiffed a bunch of local suppliers when his downtown bar failed, that's pretty low.

3. Edwards might win a superbowl, I see it coming.

[Orton's Arm]

By that time, the game was all but decided. The D failed to step up and stop Arizona when they were fresh, after the Bills scored...the entire game, basically. I'm certainly not defending JP's play the last quarter and 1/2 of that game. I am simply pointing out the fact that the D didn't just start failing then...they failed the entire game. The O Line didn't start failing when JP came in...they are part of the reason JP was even in the game.

You and I haven't always agreed on everything, but I'm with you on this one. The Cardinals played well enough that the Bills would have needed a complete team to have won that game. We were, as you point out, an offensive line and a defense short of having a complete team. And considering that the offensive line had played like chopped liver in the first 2 - 3 quarters of the previous several contests, it's reasonable to suppose it would have continued to play like chopped liver in the Cardinals contest, regardless of who we had back there at QB.

 

[Tangent] Obviously they managed to get a lot of their pass protection problems straightened out over the bye. The Preston upgrade over Fowler clearly helped.[/Tangent]

 

To address your other point, I agree with you that a Losman-related discussion is off-topic for this thread. It could distract from some of the other things we should be talking about here, such as Duke Preston. Should the Bills start him the rest of the year? I believe they should . . . Fowler has done nothing to earn a starting position, and it would be nice to know what we have or don't have in Preston. I firmly believe Preston played better today than Fowler would have, had he been starting.

[EndZoneCrew]