finknottle Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Why wouldn't you take the risk? If you don't make 250k profit from the company, you're not going to see any tax increase, so there was no increased risk or loss of profits. If you are making 250k+ in profits, then you're still making out OK even with a return to Clinton era tax rates. And you'll get a tax break for every new job created in the first two years. And you won't be paying the tax that McCain wants to impose on employer based health care. You keep ignoring the capital you risk up front. Economics according to Obama supporters: The easy way to increase state revenues is if the state taxes lottery winnings at 90%. So a 1$ winning lottery ticket that was once worth a million dollars is now only worth 100k. But people won't mind, because they are still coming out ahead, right? They will still keep buying lottery tickets in the same quantities, right? As a side note, it is ironic that the tax cut for new employees will actually harm wages, IMO. Having looked at it for my business, it strikes me that I am better off hiring four employees at 25k than I am one at 100k - I believe I get 3k per full-time employee, regardless of the salary. It helps low=wage, high-turnover companies such as Walmart, and has negligible impact on high-wage, high-skilled companies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 You keep ignoring the capital you risk up front. Economics according to Obama supporters: The easy way to increase state revenues is if the state taxes lottery winnings at 90%. So a 1$ winning lottery ticket that was once worth a million dollars is now only worth 100k. But people won't mind, because they are still coming out ahead, right? They will still keep buying lottery tickets in the same quantities, right? As a side note, it is ironic that the tax cut for new employees will actually harm wages, IMO. Having looked at it for my business, it strikes me that I am better off hiring four employees at 25k than I am one at 100k - I believe I get 3k per full-time employee, regardless of the salary. It helps low=wage, high-turnover companies such as Walmart, and has negligible impact on high-wage, high-skilled companies. So you think this tax increse is going to kill the economy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 So you think this tax increse is going to kill the economy? Why not? Just look at history... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 So you think this tax increse is going to kill the economy? Did Bush's tax cut save the economy in 2002? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I realize this board frowns on analysis and would rather B word and moan based on 'common knowledge' and idology, but I found this comparison of the Obama and McCain tax proposals interesting: _____________________Obama____________________McCain ____________________ Change in_________________Change in __________________After-Tax Income____________After-Tax Income Income___________Pct._____Absolute___________Pct._____Absolute Bottom Quintile____+5.5%_____+$567__________+6.2%_______+$698 2nd Lowest_______+3.6%_____+$892__________+5.9%______+$1,591 Middle Quintile____+2.4%____+$1,042__________+4.6%______+$2,136 2nd Highest______+1.8%____+$1,290__________+4.4%______+$3,370 Top Quintile______-2.0%_____-$4,092__________+1.5%______+$3,386 Total___________+0.3%______+$160__________+3.2%______+$2,013 Top 1%_________-8.7%____-$115,974__________-2.9%_____-$38,389 Top 0.1%______-11.5%____-$701,885___________-5.1%____-$301,401 The two takeaways I get from this are (1) that neither guy's plan is a panacea to 95% of the population, and (2) the handwringing about the end of the American way of life as we know it if Obama wins is silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 I realize this board frowns on analysis and would rather B word and moan based on 'common knowledge' and idology, but I found The two takeaways I get from this are (1) that neither guy's plan is a panacea to 95% of the population, and (2) the handwringing about the end of the American way of life as we know it if Obama wins is silly. Oh no it's not silly. If you think that Obama can enact all of those candy store give aways on raising the taxes on just the top 2% of earners you're fooling yourself. We're all going to suffer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Taro T Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 When you say Constitutionally mandated to regulate what specifically do you mean, are you drawing a distinction between explicit and implicit Federal powers? Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution is what I am referring to. Actually I was going more for 10th amendment "(t)he powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the states, are reserved to the states respectively, or to the people." But, yeah, you can look at it from an A1S8 point of view as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Oh no it's not silly. If you think that Obama can enact all of those candy store give aways on raising the taxes on just the top 2% of earners you're fooling yourself. We're all going to suffer. McCain wants to balance the budget in four years, while cutting revenue at the same time. Talk about Candy Land... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 McCain wants to balance the budget in four years, while cutting revenue at the same time. Talk about Candy Land... Maybe he's going to cut spending, I don't know and I don't care, I'm not voting for him. But at least he's not offering the world to everyone and cutting taxes of 95% of the population. But you guys must really be stupid to think that's going to work. Something's gotta give and it's going to probably be that he's going to raise taxes for everyone and say something along the lines of Bush Bad..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 Maybe he's going to cut spending, I don't know and I don't care, I'm not voting for him. But at least he's not offering the world to everyone and cutting taxes of 95% of the population. But you guys must really be stupid to think that's going to work. With the executive branch controlling only about a third of spending, McCain's budget balancing cuts should be really interesting to behold...my guess is they'd lead to four years of congressional gridlock and a meandering economy, like Japan's lost decade. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 16, 2008 Share Posted October 16, 2008 With the executive branch controlling only about a third of spending, McCain's budget balancing cuts should be really interesting to behold...my guess is they'd lead to four years of congressional gridlock and a meandering economy, like Japan's lost decade. Ok you partisan hack, we both agree that McCain's plan ain't going to work. No how is Obama's Great American Giveaway going to work? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Ok you partisan hack, we both agree that McCain's plan ain't going to work. No how is Obama's Great American Giveaway going to work? I don't dispute that both guys are just saying stuff that sounds good to their base. But if it comes down to a choice between "I've got mine, fukk you" and "I'm my brother's keeper," my choice is easy. I'm disgusted with the past four years of having a functioning moron in the Whitehouse--a guy I voted for twice, BTW--and I'm ready (along with a majority of the country, I suspect) to go in a different direction. This board is really getting to be a pointless waste of time. Control alt delete.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr. Fong Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 You mean the bill introduced by the Democratic Senate and approved by the Democatic House? Dude, grow beyond partisanship. I don't give a sh-- about the Democratic party. I care about this country. It's ridiculous to hitch your wagon to one party and blindly follow them down the path. That's what I feel too many people do in this country. I usually find myself disagreeing with Republicans, but I was proud of a lot of House Republicans that first took a stand against the bailout. Of course a lot of them backslid once the party leadership made it clear what their marching orders were. There were some local Virginia Representatives that held firm, however, and gained more respect from me than I previously gave them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I don't dispute that both guys are just saying stuff that sounds good to their base. But if it comes down to a choice between "I've got mine, fukk you" and "I'm my brother's keeper," my choice is easy. I'm disgusted with the past four years of having a functioning moron in the Whitehouse--a guy I voted for twice, BTW--and I'm ready (along with a majority of the country, I suspect) to go in a different direction. This board is really getting to be a pointless waste of time. Control alt delete.... So when you can't answer the question you pack you toys and leave. Goodbye. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomer860 Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Redistribution of wealth is communism , no thanks. Obama is a slick fraud. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Maybe he's going to cut spending, I don't know and I don't care, I'm not voting for him. But at least he's not offering the world to everyone and cutting taxes of 95% of the population. But you guys must really be stupid to think that's going to work. Something's gotta give and it's going to probably be that he's going to raise taxes for everyone and say something along the lines of Bush Bad..... The sad thing, and the reason IMO he is not taking any initiative in this fiscal crisis (arguable the biggest crisis of our generation), is so that when he gets into office and fails to deliver he can continue to blame Bush, and the bailout as well, for putting him in an unexpected straight-jacket. He will say he could easily have delivered on all of those promises but for the sudden change in circumstances. And he will get a pass from the media. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chef Jim Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 The sad thing, and the reason IMO he is not taking any initiative in this fiscal crisis (arguable the biggest crisis of our generation), is so that when he gets into office and fails to deliver he can continue to blame Bush, and the bailout as well, for putting him in an unexpected straight-jacket. He will say he could easily have delivered on all of those promises but for the sudden change in circumstances. And he will get a pass from the media. All while raising taxes on everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 Dude, grow beyond partisanship. I don't give a sh-- about the Democratic party. I care about this country. It's ridiculous to hitch your wagon to one party and blindly follow them down the path. That's what I feel too many people do in this country. I usually find myself disagreeing with Republicans, but I was proud of a lot of House Republicans that first took a stand against the bailout. Of course a lot of them backslid once the party leadership made it clear what their marching orders were. There were some local Virginia Representatives that held firm, however, and gained more respect from me than I previously gave them. For the 1,846th time, I'm not a Republican. I stopped voting Republican in 1992. Why? They stopped supporting my belief in limited government under GHWB. I thought MAYBE that Newt and company would return to that philosophy back in the 90s, but alas, I was disappointed. That being said, voting Democrat is akin to voting for socialism and I can NOT advocate that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 So when you can't answer the question you pack you toys and leave. Goodbye. The old saying about a 'waste of good piss' keeps coming to mind the more I hang out here. You can't answer anything either, yet you waste your time here day after day...which begs the question about who's making a better choice. It's like the old 'Spy vs. Spy' series in Mad Magazine. Good riddence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted October 17, 2008 Share Posted October 17, 2008 I realize this board frowns on analysis and would rather B word and moan based on 'common knowledge' and idology, but I found this comparison of the Obama and McCain tax proposals interesting: _____________________Obama____________________McCain ____________________ Change in_________________Change in __________________After-Tax Income____________After-Tax Income Income___________Pct._____Absolute___________Pct._____Absolute Bottom Quintile____+5.5%_____+$567__________+6.2%_______+$698 2nd Lowest_______+3.6%_____+$892__________+5.9%______+$1,591 Middle Quintile____+2.4%____+$1,042__________+4.6%______+$2,136 2nd Highest______+1.8%____+$1,290__________+4.4%______+$3,370 Top Quintile______-2.0%_____-$4,092__________+1.5%______+$3,386 Total___________+0.3%______+$160__________+3.2%______+$2,013 Top 1%_________-8.7%____-$115,974__________-2.9%_____-$38,389 Top 0.1%______-11.5%____-$701,885___________-5.1%____-$301,401 The two takeaways I get from this are (1) that neither guy's plan is a panacea to 95% of the population, and (2) the handwringing about the end of the American way of life as we know it if Obama wins is silly. Does it factor in the added interest from the growing interest on the debt as it effects income and any assumptions about lowering spending increases or the ending of the war in Iraq? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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