GG Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 I agree with you on this one! Just look at the trade Buffalo did make yesterday. I was a FIRST ROUNDER they shipped off to Indy for the secret undisclosed draft pick based on lazy McCargo's production. Nothing makes sense when teams are judging draft picks. If Peterson would have offered TG to Brandon for McCargo AND a 4th round pick, Brandon would have jumped all over that trade. But at the same time, Russ would not offer a future 2nd round pick who could end up being another miss just like McCargo. And I cannot emphasize this point enough, Buffalo gave up an extra draft pick to get back into the first round to draft McCargo. Here's the scariest part of this trade to Indy....Brandon made the trade with Bill Polian. Based on Polian's record, we can expect to see McCargo in the Pro Bowl a year or two from now, while TG retires as a Kansas City Chief or with another team he ends up getting traded to next year, now that Brandon has officially given up on getting him. When Russ became CEO or whatever his actual title is, he should have given himself one rule never to break, DO NOT TRADE WITH BILL POLIAN. Next time you see Corey Simon & Booger McFarland, tell them Bill Polian said hi.
Coach Tuesday Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Next time you see Corey Simon & Booger McFarland, tell them Bill Polian said hi. Yep, exactly. I was angry with the organization yesterday (not for failing to land Gonzo, but for failing to have a plan for the tight end position until the 2008 trade deadline). But I have to give them credit for sticking to their guns on this one. Per PFT, Gonzalez is "furious" at Peterson for not taking a 3rd rounder (which seems to refute the reports that Gonzo nixed a trade to Buffalo). Peterson is famous for overplaying his hand and ending up with nothing, and he did it yet again yesterday. As much as we need a playmaking tight end, a 32 year old TE is just not worth a second round pick. Gonzo himself said as much this morning. The result is unfortunate, but it's the reason why the Chiefs continue to languish and the Bills are on the upswing. The Bills stick to their value board, which resulted in the brilliant Trent Edwards pick. When they stray from their board and overpay for need, bad things can happen (see: McCargo).
Beerball Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 I would of loved to get Gonzo but obviously the management feels that this was too much So did every other team who expressed interest...NYG, Vikes & Philly. If it wasn't for the byline I woulda sworn this was a Sully article.
Dan Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 So did every other team who expressed interest...NYG, Vikes & Philly. If it wasn't for the byline I woulda sworn this was a Sully article. I'm pretty sure you're forgetting the fact that the Bills FO is always wrong and other teams that don't make the same move have a special foresight that our guys don't which of course makes us incompetent. It's simple crayonzian logic.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 This I would have done. We should be trying to win a Superbowl either this year or next year, and Gonzalez could have had such a huge impact in helping us do that. Too bad Russ didn't pull the trigger.
GG Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Per PFT, Gonzalez is "furious" at Peterson for not taking a 3rd rounder (which seems to refute the reports that Gonzo nixed a trade to Buffalo). Peterson is famous for overplaying his hand and ending up with nothing, and he did it yet again yesterday. As much as we need a playmaking tight end, a 32 year old TE is just not worth a second round pick. Gonzo himself said as much this morning. The result is unfortunate, but it's the reason why the Chiefs continue to languish and the Bills are on the upswing. The Bills stick to their value board, which resulted in the brilliant Trent Edwards pick. When they stray from their board and overpay for need, bad things can happen (see: McCargo). I think we can put the "Gonzales blocked the trade to Buffalo" item to rest. Bills blinked, my foot.
Dan Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 This I would have done. We should be trying to win a Superbowl either this year or next year, and Gonzalez could have had such a huge impact in helping us do that. Too bad Russ didn't pull the trigger. So you're a fan of the Jet/Redskin/Dallas approach? How about put together a "team" that tries to win the Superbowl for the next decade; that's what I'd prefer to see.
dave mcbride Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Two NFL sources say the Bills offered a third-round draft pick for Gonzalez. Sources also say that Peterson refused to budge off his asking price, reported to be a No. 2 and a No. 5. If he was going to part with the face of the franchise it would be for what he considered commensurate return. The Bills declined to meet the price. It took them two No. 1s, a No. 2, a No. 3 and a No. 5 to get the quarterback they were after. But they wouldn’t spend a No. 2 and a No. 5 on a Hall of Fame tight end capable of maximizing that quarterback’s talents while simultaneously diverting attention from the wideout they just signed to a lucrative extension. Look at it this way: Gonzalez could have been a Bill for the premium they paid to acquire Losman. http://www.buffalonews.com/opinion/columns...ory/463948.html Actually, DiCesare doesn't know, as he admits when he says that it may be the case that Gonzalez didn't want to come to Buffalo. Suggesting that a call from a long-retired QB could sway him strikes me as both improbable and wishful thinking. It's like suggesting that Len Dawson, Dan Marino, or Roger Staubach could make a call and impact a player's decision process.
GG Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Actually, DiCesare doesn't know, as he admits when he says that it may be the case that Gonzalez didn't want to come to Buffalo. Suggesting that a call from a long-retired QB could sway him strikes me as both improbable and wishful thinking. It's like suggesting that Len Dawson, Dan Marino, or Roger Staubach could make a call and impact a player's decision process. Never mind that Gonzales isn't the one who blocked the trade to Buffalo, but Peterson himself. BTW, why did DiCesare start the QB overspend with Bledsoe? The line should go all the way back to Collins.
dave mcbride Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Never mind that Gonzales isn't the one who blocked the trade to Buffalo, but Peterson himself. BTW, why did DiCesare start the QB overspend with Bledsoe? The line should go all the way back to Collins. Collins didn't pan out, but he was a reasonable choice given what they knew at the time -- the 45th pick overall. Johnson was of course the real start of it, but then again they did get Flutie for free, practically. Re blocking the trade, we still don't know if it was the Bills, Giants, or Eagles who were the most likely partner.
bills_fan Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 I think we can put the "Gonzales blocked the trade to Buffalo" item to rest. Bills blinked, my foot. Wow! Hopefully this is not TG just trying to CYA. If this is true and Peterson nixed the Bills offer of a 3rd (and maybe a 6th, depending on reports), shame on Peterson. KC's loss.
Dan Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Collins didn't pan out, but he was a reasonable choice given what they knew at the time -- the 45th pick overall. Johnson was of course the real start of it, but then again they did get Flutie for free, practically. Re blocking the trade, we still don't know if it was the Bills, Giants, or Eagles who were the most likely partner. It could have been all 3 which is why TG was so certain he'd be somewhere else.
Rubes Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 DiCesare isn't the worst columnist, but he sure didn't help his cause with this one. Seriously, he refers to the trade that brought an aging star (Bledsoe) here -- giving up future draft picks and setting the team back by a few years -- and he's using that as an argument to do the same with Gonzales? You're kidding me, right? Then later, as dave points out, he fesses up that he doesn't really know what happened, despite his insistence that the Bills "froze". Meanwhile, a little internet surfing by GG tells me more than DiCesare could ever hope to. Good grief.
GG Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Collins didn't pan out, but he was a reasonable choice given what they knew at the time -- the 45th pick overall. Johnson was of course the real start of it, but then again they did get Flutie for free, practically. Re blocking the trade, we still don't know if it was the Bills, Giants, or Eagles who were the most likely partner. Billy Joe Bob Playbook was the real start, although a 3rd rounder wasn't much of a cost.
The Senator Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 DiCesare isn't the worst columnist, but he sure didn't help his cause with this one. Seriously, he refers to the trade that brought an aging star (Bledsoe) here -- giving up future draft picks and setting the team back by a few years -- and he's using that as an argument to do the same with Gonzales? You're kidding me, right? Then later, as dave points out, he fesses up that he doesn't really know what happened, despite his insistence that the Bills "froze". Meanwhile, a little internet surfing by GG tells me more than DiCesare could ever hope to. Good grief. Well that pretty much says it all - about all that one can is... DiCesare = Total F cking Idiot! Eschewing the solid, sure, Marv-methodology of building a dynasty that will last for years for the failed, dim-witted Donahoe 'get-'er-in-bed-now-&-shoot-yer-load-as-fast-as-ya-can' catastrophe just shows why DiCesare - along with almost all sports writers, art & music critics, literary reviewers, etc., do what they do for a living - write and dream about what they wish they knew enough about to actually earn a living doing it. GO BILLSSS!!!! 18 and 1 baby!!!!!
Sisyphean Bills Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Collins didn't pan out, but he was a reasonable choice given what they knew at the time -- the 45th pick overall. Johnson was of course the real start of it, but then again they did get Flutie for free, practically. Re blocking the trade, we still don't know if it was the Bills, Giants, or Eagles who were the most likely partner. I don't like that definition of "reasonable". A reasonable choice should not be based completely on some stiff's draft position. Collins is a student of the game and is a good practice QB, but his career is all but a blank slate when it comes to actually playing the game -- he's a career 3rd stringer. The coaches wildly underestimated the value of having a QB that could make plays and had enough arm to keep the forward pass an offensive option in the not uncommon bad weather of Buffalo, NY in the fall and early winter. The fact that Collins was flip flopped and eventually lost his job to an out-of-shape Alex Van Pelt (who sported a damaged throwing shoulder at the time) and that the Bills seriously considered Billy Joe Hobert says it all.
SKOOBY Posted October 15, 2008 Author Posted October 15, 2008 Can you imagine Tony trying to explain to his teammates on how they are not losers & he still believes in the teams ability to win? He basically said we are going nowhere and I want off this ship, let me jump. Peterson totally F-him good and left his team in a lurch, which should benefits the Bills later this season. All in all, I think KC will have new management within the next few years.
KnightRider Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 Based on Polian's record, we can expect to see McCargo in the Pro Bowl a year or two from now, while TG retires as a Kansas City Chief or with another team he ends up getting traded to next year, now that Brandon has officially given up on getting him. When Russ became CEO or whatever his actual title is, he should have given himself one rule never to break, DO NOT TRADE WITH BILL POLIAN. Even Bill takes a flyer here and there. The guy was going nowhere here, so the Bills made the best of it.
dave mcbride Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 I don't like that definition of "reasonable". A reasonable choice should not be based completely on some stiff's draft position. Collins is a student of the game and is a good practice QB, but his career is all but a blank slate when it comes to actually playing the game -- he's a career 3rd stringer. The coaches wildly underestimated the value of having a QB that could make plays and had enough arm to keep the forward pass an offensive option in the not uncommon bad weather of Buffalo, NY in the fall and early winter. The fact that Collins was flip flopped and eventually lost his job to an out-of-shape Alex Van Pelt (who sported a damaged throwing shoulder at the time) and that the Bills seriously considered Billy Joe Hobert says it all. In college, Collins displayed a pretty good (not great, but pretty good) arm and played well for a good team (Michigan). Plus he's intelligeent. Sometimes guys don't play like you'd expect. What can you do? It was reasonable assumption in April 1995.
GG Posted October 15, 2008 Posted October 15, 2008 In college, Collins displayed a pretty good (not great, but pretty good) arm and played well for a good team (Michigan). Plus he's intelligeent. Sometimes guys don't play like you'd expect. What can you do? It was reasonable assumption in April 1995. Exactly. 1995 was supposed to be the best QB class since 1983. Even in retrospect, Collins was the 3rd best QB in that mirage of a class.
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