When will this country wake up?

[Chilly]

What can't you do that truly doesn't harm others?

 

Easiest and most obvious example: Buy a dime bag and smoke it in my own home, though I personally don't even like or have any interest in doing it.

 

Still though, the loss of freedom isn't something that's done in such a non-subtle way, but by eroding your rights (yay patriot act).

 

 

We are a society that is more and more innvolved with others than any other time in our history, no?

 

Economically.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

This is a tough question, and one that you won't get a great response to, as it isn't a simple answer.

 

The biggest thing that scares me is we are losing our historical skepticism of government. Both sides want to increase the role of government in our lives; one in the name of foreign policy, one in the name of the domestic policy.

 

On the other hand, we are also losing our sense of balance. There definitely are things that we, as citizens, rely on our government for. We need them to provide infrastructure for the country, and ensure that the free markets are fair markets.

 

In more concrete terms, this has been reflected by the expanding powers of the office holders, the reduction of freedom and liberty in society, the national debt, and the insane Wilsonian notion of forcing democracy onto other countries.

good points...

 

part of the problem is also lack of good solutions by one side or another... healthcare being a good example. Free market solutions haven't worked well enough to maintain costs and there's millions of uninsured citizens who are locked out. So someone like Obama gets a lot of attention when he offers a plan that offers some solutions, but requires more intervention by the government.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Easiest and most obvious example: Buy a dime bag and smoke it in my own home.

 

Still though, the loss of freedom isn't something that's done in such a non-subtle way, but by eroding your rights (yay patriot act).

 

 

 

 

Economically.

 

When could you buy a dime bag and smoke it in your home? Oh, I forgot: "Our founding fathers smoked rope."

 

[ExiledInIllinois]

Economically.

 

And laugh as you will... Socially intertwined.

[Chilly]

When could you buy a dime bag and smoke it in your home? Oh, I forgot: "Our founding fathers smoked rope."

 

 

Deflecting away from the broad point?

 

And laugh as you will... Socially intertwined.

 

I guess I don't get your point here. Are you arguing that globalization necessarily involves the devolution of civil liberties? If so, how?

[Chilly]

part of the problem is also lack of good solutions by one side or another... healthcare being a good example. Free market solutions haven't worked well enough to maintain costs and there's millions of uninsured citizens who are locked out. So someone like Obama gets a lot of attention when he offers a plan that offers some solutions, but requires more intervention by the government.

 

Completely agree, there hasn't been a health care proposal yet that I think makes sense. I definitely think that we are getting hurt by 3rd parties and independent candidates being locked out. While 3rd parties haven't themselves been successful in getting elected, lots of new and good ideas in American history have come from 3rd party sources originally, then one of the two major parties incorporates their ideas into their platform.

[ExiledInIllinois]

Deflecting away from the broad point?

 

 

 

I guess I don't get your point here. Are you arguing that globalization necessarily involves the devolution of civil liberties? If so, how?

 

No. You said economically and I said socially... We are more intertwined socially with one and other in this country than we have been in the past. I assume you disagree with this. We do interact with a lot more people than we ever have.

 

The more socially interactive you are, the more responsibilty you have. I just don't get were civil liberties mean you are able to harm others. You do not have the liberty to infringe on or harm others.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

Completely agree, there hasn't been a health care proposal yet that I think makes sense. I definitely think that we are getting hurt by 3rd parties and independent candidates being locked out. While 3rd parties haven't themselves been successful in getting elected, lots of new and good ideas in American history have come from 3rd party sources originally, then one of the two major parties incorporates their ideas into their platform.

yeah, I think a lot of the reasons 3rd parties don't have a chance, as well as probably some really good repubs and dems, because of the costs of getting elected. How many can raise the kind of money we're seeing required in '08?

[swede316]

Better be ready, I am...better safe than sorry I always say.

How will you be ready when Obama takes away all of your guns...and ammo too?

[molson_golden2002]

Welcome to the New World Order! Bow down to the God of Globalism!

 

http://www.csmonitor.com/2008/1014/p01s04-wogn.html

 

WASHINGTON, PARIS, AND LONDON - As governments of the industrialized world struggle with the global credit crisis, they may be relearning an old lesson: there is more strength in standing together than in struggling alone.

 

 

It's true that financial systems are among the most integrated parts of the modern world. Not every nation is happy about serving in this ad hoc alliance to save capitalism.

 

But if nothing else, leaders are learning that they can pull together constructive initiatives in the face of danger. And if they can save banks, why not the environment? If they can stop the spread of shareholder panic, why can't they stop the spread of nuclear weapons?

 

"We may find if we deal with the global credit crisis, we will start to think we can deal with the problem of global warming, or energy, or rogue states," says Colin Camerer, an economic behaviorist at California Institute of Technology in Pasadena.

 

"This might help invest world institutions with greater responsibility."

 

Even as the United States and the rest of the world try to recover from the present crisis, they should start looking ahead, said World Bank president Robert Zoellick in an Oct. 13 speech.

 

The world needs a modernized multilateralism for a new global economy, argued Mr. Zoellick in his address at the annual meeting of the World Bank's board of governors.

 

The world's model now should be the conference held in Bretton Woods, N.H., that set up the outlines of the post-World War II financial system, said Zoellick. The leaders that took part in Bretton Woods left both a legacy of specific international monetary institutions and "an intellectual, policy, and political commitment to act multilaterally to turn the problems of an era into opportunities," said Zoellick.

[Bill from NYC]

Easiest and most obvious example: Buy a dime bag and smoke it in my own home, though I personally don't even like or have any interest in doing it.

 

Still though, the loss of freedom isn't something that's done in such a non-subtle way

 

You are wasting your time. E.I.L. loves things like people's homes being seized to open businesses, as long as the seizure is permitted by "liberal" dummycrat judges.

 

He is a bit over the top right now. The election seems to be having a huge impact on him, but he is not a phony, unlike certain others who come here as "freedom lovers," and cheer as your rights are stripped away. In fact, he seems like a decent guy.

[StupidNation]

We have been going down the toilet for the last 25-30 years with both repubs and Democrates in the office and in congress. What exactley has that gotten us? Why do we keep supporting these crooks? What has happened to this great country of ours? Is anyone else (besides AD) outraged by the games BOTH parties are playing with this country at stake?...

 

If we continue to let them destroy this country, the blood will be on OUR hands.

 

I think there are a few people here who understand. The rest are partisan hacks who occasionally acknowledge the truth no matter from what party. The best years of this countries existence were between 1860-1913. Those were the years we had incredible booms in the market, strong middle class growth from manufacturing, strong tariffs on imports, and no income tax. We were exporting 70% of goods made here and importing 50%. Cities and infrastructure could afford to be built, there was no debt, and we were becoming a creditor nation where countries owed us money.

 

Those days are not coming back, nor will they ever again until we are brought to our knees and people realize not everyone can live on other people working. The moment you tell people if you don't work we will pay you those people will multiply and live like cockroaches. The moment you increase money to people who came here illegally while decreasing money to the elderly who paid into the system your country deserves punishment as it is a sin crying to justice to God as you stole from those who really need it.

 

We can't stop people from voting liberal agendas as you are implying because people cannot look past their laziness and greed. It won't happen, and now there is class warfare. People love Obama for this reason. About 2/3rds of our country considers themselves conservative, yet they do nothing. If you want the honest approach buy a farm and live in the country and watch this thing implode. It will and it's a matter of when, not if.

 

Peope on CNN and FOX sneered at Peter Schiff (watch him on Youtube) and now he looks like a prophet. You might be wise to read his new book on Bulls and Bears and Crashproof. His videos on Youtube are fun to watch as he's quirky, but honest.

[Boomer860]

I'm for it.

Thats two of us and I am sure there are many more , Obama says spread the wealth , thats pure communism .What we have is a Cold War at the ballot box.

Some on this board support communism , you can see whom they are by thier postings. The way Obama looks at it you will have to share your Bills seasons tickets. It sounds like a stretch but thats the way it is.

[Max Fischer]

I think there are a few people here who understand. The rest are partisan hacks who occasionally acknowledge the truth no matter from what party. The best years of this countries existence were between 1860-1913. Those were the years we had incredible booms in the market, strong middle class growth from manufacturing, strong tariffs on imports, and no income tax. We were exporting 70% of goods made here and importing 50%. Cities and infrastructure could afford to be built, there was no debt, and we were becoming a creditor nation where countries owed us money.

 

Those days are not coming back, nor will they ever again until we are brought to our knees and people realize not everyone can live on other people working. The moment you tell people if you don't work we will pay you those people will multiply and live like cockroaches. The moment you increase money to people who came here illegally while decreasing money to the elderly who paid into the system your country deserves punishment as it is a sin crying to justice to God as you stole from those who really need it.

 

We can't stop people from voting liberal agendas as you are implying because people cannot look past their laziness and greed. It won't happen, and now there is class warfare. People love Obama for this reason. About 2/3rds of our country considers themselves conservative, yet they do nothing. If you want the honest approach buy a farm and live in the country and watch this thing implode. It will and it's a matter of when, not if.

 

Peope on CNN and FOX sneered at Peter Schiff (watch him on Youtube) and now he looks like a prophet. You might be wise to read his new book on Bulls and Bears and Crashproof. His videos on Youtube are fun to watch as he's quirky, but honest.

 

Those who lived from 1865-1913 who would not approve of today's America:

- segregationists

- anti-Semites

- robber barons

- the top 1% that owned 90%+ of the wealth

- those who employed child labor

- those opposed to a woman's right to vote

- land owners

- the monopolies

- stupidnation

 

Shall we go on?

[Chilly]

No. You said economically and I said socially... We are more intertwined socially with one and other in this country than we have been in the past. I assume you disagree with this. We do interact with a lot more people than we ever have.

 

Oh, I thought you were referring to other countries.

 

The more socially interactive you are, the more responsibilty you have. I just don't get were civil liberties mean you are able to harm others. You do not have the liberty to infringe on or harm others.

 

It's not about harming others, EIL, its about the dissolution of privacy, banning smoking in bars (that should be up to the bar owner), eminent domain, making it illegal to back up DVDs that you legally own because you have to get around copy protection, and so on. These are what I mean by civil liberties.

[SD Jarhead]

How will you be ready when Obama takes away all of your guns...and ammo too?

 

It might just be the ammo before the guns. The latest tactic is to inflate ammo costs to the point where the average citizen can't afford it. Where I live, Kalifornia recently had a bill nearly pass that would levy a $.50 per round tax on ammunition.

 

Tyranny like this is what concerns me about the Leftist Dem's taking control of Congress and the Executive. People think it can't happen...they're worng.

[DC Tom]

Thats two of us and I am sure there are many more , Obama says spread the wealth , thats pure communism .What we have is a Cold War at the ballot box.

Some on this board support communism , you can see whom they are by thier postings. The way Obama looks at it you will have to share your Bills seasons tickets. It sounds like a stretch but thats the way it is.

 

That's a pretty ridiculous interpretation of both Obama and the Democratic party. It would be far more accurate to say that the left sees everyone as a victim (almost literally, at this point - Obama's newest "economic" plan is to give money to everyone, including the rich), and therefore must be dependent on the government for help.

 

Which isn't all that different from what the Republicans do (got your duct tape and plastic sheeting handy?) Convince people they're victims and you'll protect them, and they'll flock to you. That goes doubly when victimization is believed to be noble (as in our country).

[Boomer860]

That's a pretty ridiculous interpretation of both Obama and the Democratic party. It would be far more accurate to say that the left sees everyone as a victim (almost literally, at this point - Obama's newest "economic" plan is to give money to everyone, including the rich), and therefore must be dependent on the government for help.

 

Which isn't all that different from what the Republicans do (got your duct tape and plastic sheeting handy?) Convince people they're victims and you'll protect them, and they'll flock to you. That goes doubly when victimization is believed to be noble (as in our country).

I am saving my duct tape and plastic sheating for the torture we will have to inflict on the enemy. lf Billls fans have to share their seasons tictkets I will be the victim

How is he going to give money to everyone even the rich ? Oh I know just print it.

[Da Big Man]

I am saving my duct tape and plastic sheating for the torture we will have to inflict on the enemy. lf Billls fans have to share their seasons tictkets I will be the victim

How is he going to give money to everyone even the rich ? Oh I know just print it.

We will wake up on Nov. fifth. With John McCain as our new PREZ.

[swede316]

We will wake up on Nov. fifth. With John McCain as our new PREZ.

One can only hope....While not my first choice for president...He is WAAAAY better than the alternative (Obama). And think of the bonus of a John McCain victory...Exiled to Idiotville, bzrul, Molson amongst others will all cry like raising taxes, gun control, and universal health care will never happen in their life time