Jason Peters vs. someone like...

[StupidNation]

So, if he returns to form, then the negotiations should (and likely will) begin. But, IMO, there is no question that Peters and his agent, cost themselves some real $$ and a lot of good will with OBD and the Bills' fans. The "fool me once..." rule should now be in effect.

 

I'm not saying he can't return to his old form, but the "fool me once" theory for a grown man in a contract isn't just a fool, but men should be held to higher standards in their own decisions. I hope that Peters isn't extended this year or next year, and if he holds out again he should to his own detriment. He's not worth it at this point. As a matter of fact I would consider below average reason for a pay-cut.

 

Everyone can have the one season that looks great. Look how Derek Anderson (except last night) was a one-year wonder and ready to be benched. Many players are one year wonders. The few people on here defending Peters forget this with sports amnesia because it's their team. Just like fans love 1st and 2nd rounders over more talented players because they are being paid more and with higher expectations.

[The Dean]

I'm not saying he can't return to his old form, but the "fool me once" theory for a grown man in a contract isn't just a fool, but men should be held to higher standards in their own decisions. I hope that Peters isn't extended this year or next year, and if he holds out again he should to his own detriment. He's not worth it at this point. As a matter of fact I would consider below average reason for a pay-cut.

 

Everyone can have the one season that looks great. Look how Derek Anderson (except last night) was a one-year wonder and ready to be benched. Many players are one year wonders. The few people on here defending Peters forget this with sports amnesia because it's their team. Just like fans love 1st and 2nd rounders over more talented players because they are being paid more and with higher expectations.

 

 

It is possible that Peters is a one-year wonder. Well...more than one year, but I get your point. But, remember, Peters didn't simply have one great year, out of nowhere. He was raw talent, and he trained, and worked and BECAME better. Now, if he is simply too rich/stupid/lazy to care anymore, than you may be right, but the Bills will be in a good position to know that, as they can see him work every day. If he's going through the motions, or simply not improving, then I agree they should not redo his contract. In fact, if he isn't capable of being a starting tackle, then perhaps they should cut him.

 

But, let's suppose he is showing signs of improvement, working hard...all the good stuff. The man is a freakishly talented athlete, and by just about all accounts a well-liked guy by teammates and coaches, alike. (McNally simply loved the guy, and said he was the best athlete he ever coached.)

 

If he starts to return to form, you wouldn't try to make this guy (and by extension, the rest of the team) somewhat happy with a new deal? That's pretty short-sighted, IMO. It not only hurts the team in the short-term, but in the long term, as well. The Bills have already demonstrated that holding out won't be rewarded, as they refused to negotiate with him while he was out. Now Peters is demonstrating that holding out is a poor strategy, as his play has suffered and he is, currently, in no position to renegotiate the deal.

 

So, I think fair warning has been sent to other players and agents who were considering trying that tactic in the future. IF Peters returns to form, the Bills should send another message: We treat players fairly and reward performance. This is a team on the verge of greatness. Team chemistry will be important. So will attracting a few of the last pieces to the puzzle. If the Bills simply crap on Peters, even in light of a return to form, they risk damaging the good will, and alienating possible FA talent.

 

I see your post as the thoughts of a pissed-off guy, who wants to screw Peters out of spite. Spite is not a good management tool.

[The Senator]

It's fairly obvious Peters ain't makin' the Pro-Bowl this season (between Mickey, Bill, and Kelly, he's only got 3 votes), and certainly a new contract this year is out of the question given his poor level of play. If he somehow manages to get his schitt together, works hard to get back to form this season and plays well next year, the Bills should probably look at extending him during his final contract year, just like they did with Evans this season. OTOH, if FatBoy pulls any of that holdout crap again, screw 'im.

 

No matter how you slice it, though, looks like PayMe's ill-considered holdout has and continues to cost him $$$plenty$$$.

[The Dean]

It's fairly obvious Peters ain't makin' the Pro-Bowl this season (between Mickey, Bill, and Kelly, he's only got 3 votes), and certainly a new contract this year is out of the question given his poor level of play. If he somehow manages to get his schitt together, works hard to get back to form this season and plays well next year, the Bills should probably look at extending him during his final contract year, just like they did with Evans this season. OTOH, if FatBoy pulls any of that holdout crap again, screw 'im.

 

No matter how you slice it, though, looks like PayMe's ill-considered holdout has and continues to cost him $$$plenty$$$.

 

 

No, he won't make the Pro Bowl, this year, but he could return to Pro Bowl form. And, if that's the case, the Bills would be wise to NOT wait until the last year of his contract. I'll assume that, if Peters returns to form, and continues to play at that level, he won't renegotiate with the Bills in the last year of his contract, but simply go UFA where he will make far more $$. That would put the Bills in the position, once again, of developing a player, only to lose him to FA.

 

But, I don't care about convincing you, as you aren't important in this situation. You are a bitter old man who holds a grudge. (I was going to call you a bitter old Polack, but that wouldn't be right now, would it?) I think Brandon is a smart manager who won't get his panties all in a bunch, and let it cloud his judgment.

 

The Bills know damn well to not let this contract go to the end, IF...again IF...Peters returns to form.

[The Senator]

No, he won't make the Pro Bowl, this year, but he could return to Pro Bowl form. And, if that's the case, the Bills would be wise to NOT wait until the last year of his contract. I'll assume that, if Peters returns to form, and continues to play at that level, he won't renegotiate with the Bills in the last year of his contract, but simply go UFA where he will make far more $$. That would put the Bills in the position, once again, of developing a player, only to lose him to FA.

 

But, I don't care about convincing you, as you aren't important in this situation. You are a bitter old man who holds a grudge. (I was going to call you a bitter old Polack, but that wouldn't be right now, would it?) I think Brandon is a smart manager who won't get his panties all in a bunch, and let it cloud his judgment.

 

The Bills know damn well to not let this contract go to the end, IF...again IF...Peters returns to form.

Drinkin' already? Kinda early, isn't it?

[The Dean]

Drinkin' already? Kinda early, isn't it?

 

 

It's NEVER too early, Sen. I know you understand that.

 

Gotta get going, soon, as I have a couple of appointments, today. Maybe I should throw a little Baileys in my coffee. Hmmmm.....

[dave mcbride]

Warning: Dik Smub length post:

 

We will never probably know the entire story. Unlike some, I like to take a somewhat objective look at these things, without casting the player, team or agent, as the villain. I understand that many are pissed at Peters because his hold out has hurt his, and the team's, progress. But, assuming, because he made this one error in judgment, he is a piece of crap and/or can never regain his old form is stupid and juvenile.

 

Here's my best guess at what transpired...much of this is total speculation and I want that to be clear from the start.

 

Peters was a UFA who was transformed from a TE to a Tackle. He came to the NFL very raw, and obviously was even rawer when it came to playing the offensive line (not counting TE). He's not supposed to be all that bright, so that he made the transition from TE to Tackle to Pro Bowl LT, in a very short period of time, tells you something about the guys athletic ability and work ethic, IMO.

 

When it became clear that Peters was someone the Bills wanted to keep around, they gave him a nice new contract. That contract was GREAT for a guy who was a former UFA, lucky to be with any NFL team. Well, as he started to get better, and eventually become an Pro Bowl LT (deserved, or not, it was clear he was getting to be a VERY good player) his contract was below what LTs, and especially very good LTs, make. So, he's got a great contract considering where he came from, but a poor contract, considering the position he now played, and excelled at.

 

I think it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Bills would have to reevaluate the contract, and make some adjustments well before the end of the existing contract. That fact was even discussed on TSW, and most agreed that a raise was, likely, in order. My guess is Jason understood that, as well, but he was almost certainly reminded of the fact by his agent, friends, family, etc.

 

IMO, up to this point in the story, there are no real issues. Everybody knows that Jason is underpaid for what he does, but there are likely disagreements on how that gets rectified. The Bills initial response was probably something like, "Hey, you just signed a new contract. We will redo it, but give us one more year at that level, and show us you are for real." His agent, Eugene Parker (new agent, I think...anyone confirm this?) probably said, "Jason, you just made the Pro Bowl. You are the talk of the league. Despite being the best OL in the team Walker and Dockery make more than you. I can get you this new contract THIS year, but you have to do what I say." Now, we can debate whether Jason's intelligence here, but like most players, he trusts his agent. Perhaps, in Jason's case, he doesn't come up with the right questions, and doesn't have the wherewithal to DIRECT his agent. I'm guessing Eugene Parker is a LOT smarter than Jason Peters.

 

Parker tells him the only way he will see more $$ this year is to hold out. The Bills say, they won't negotiate with a holdout. Peters' agent knows that he will have Peters report before the start of the season, so he knows HE (the agent) will see his $$. So, he ain't worried. Plus, he thinks he can pull this off. Hell, a monkey can see that, in the Bills' salary structure, Peters is getting screwed. But, the Bills say, "Report and we'll talk. Don't report and we don't talk." If Peters were a smarter guy, I think he says, about halfway through training camp, "This ain't working, Eugene. I gotta go to work. Keep talking and get this done ASAP." Instead, Peters continues to trust his agent. (Why I really think this is, Peters didn't return calls from the Bills. That sounds like "agent orders" to me.)

 

So, right before the season, Parker sees his bluff was called, and, of course, Parker need to be paid, so he tells Jason, "Report. They say they will negotiate a new contract. The holdout worked!" Well, the Bills had already expressed willingness to talk if Jason reported, so they won nothing, in reality.

 

 

So, who is to blame? Well, everyone has some culpability, although I think the Bills come out OK, on this one, if they were willing to talk from the start. The only way the Bills look bad, is if they weren't even willing to talk before the start of OTAs. Everyone is responsible for their decisions, IMO, so Peters is to blame, too. I cut him some slack, as I suspect he is playing this negotiating games at a disadvantage. Still, he decided to trust the agent. Finally, there is the agent. I lay most of the blame on his failed strategy. Early on, it may have looked like a solid course. But, it should have been clear to him by preseason, that it wasn't working. As I don't cut him the same break as Peters, he should have known better, and not let the holdout go on for so long.

 

Where it goes from here. The damage of the holdout is done, to the Bills and to Peters' new contract dreams. But, that doesn't mean that the damage to both can't be rectified and the wounds healed. If I'm Peters (and his agent) I don't want to talk about the contract right now. Peters has to work doubly hard to get back to his old form. If and when that happens, the damage to the Bills should be healed. With luck, that will happen before the playoffs, and Peters will be driving hard in the playoffs to show the Bills he really does deserve a new contract. It is possible this whole thing ends up helping the Bills, by the end of the year, if Peters is in shape and motivated to make a statement.

 

So, if he returns to form, then the negotiations should (and likely will) begin. But, IMO, there is no question that Peters and his agent, cost themselves some real $$ and a lot of good will with OBD and the Bills' fans. The "fool me once..." rule should now be in effect. He needs to understand that, with the Bills, he will achieve nothing with a holdout. The Bills need to show him, and all their players, that if you perform, you will be taken care of. The Evans situation shows both sides of that philosophy.

Knowing what you know now, do you think he's underpaid? Because in my opinion, he's been a mediocre LT at best this year - probably not in the top 15. I haven't watched a lot of Mike Gandy, but from what I've seen he has looked as good and probably better than Peters this year.

[The Dean]

Knowing what you know now, do you think he's underpaid? Because in my opinion, he's been a mediocre LT at best this year - probably not in the top 15. I haven't watched a lot of Mike Gandy, but from what I've seen he has looked as good and probably better than Peters this year.

 

 

Dave, THIS YEAR his play has suffered because he sat out.

 

Did you even read the post? I know it's long, but you can do better than that response.

[The Senator]

No, he won't make the Pro Bowl, this year, but he could return to Pro Bowl form. And, if that's the case, the Bills would be wise to NOT wait until the last year of his contract. I'll assume that, if Peters returns to form, and continues to play at that level, he won't renegotiate with the Bills in the last year of his contract, but simply go UFA where he will make far more $$. That would put the Bills in the position, once again, of developing a player, only to lose him to FA.

Once again, my good friend, I must call "BULLSCHITT!!!!"

 

If...IF...Peters returns to Pro Bowl form, the greedy fat !@#$ is gonna demand top $$$ anyway - the Bills can hang onto him for two more years, then continue to hang on to him for one or two more and/or extort two #1 draft picks by simply slapping the F-tag on him, and it won't cost them any more $$$ (might even save 'em a few bucks since all they'd have to pay is the average of the top five OT salaries).

 

PayMe's already shown how much loyalty he has to this organization - the Bills owe him no special treatment or consideration. None.

[dave mcbride]

Dave, THIS YEAR his play has suffered because he sat out.

 

Did you even read the post? I know it's long, but you can do better than that response.

I did read it, but frankly I don't care about last year, and what happens in the future is to a certain extent based on present performance assuming the player is healthy (and he's healthy). So right now, I'm not seeing a Walter Jones-in-his-prime player out there but rather a slightly out-of-shape yet genuine athlete who messes up far too often mentally for a player of his alleged caliber. He is in his prime as well, so it's not like he's going to get much better (if at all). Usually, the injuries begin to catch up to players when they hit their late 20s, after which they substitute savvy for lost ability. I'm not real confident about his savvy, I have to say.

 

Having said this, I like Peters and want him to remain a Bill. He is truly talented. However, unless he performs like Walter Jones -- a player whose performance did *not* nosedive after annual holdouts -- I'm somewhat adverse to giving him Walter Jones' salary.

[Dan]

One of my concerns with Peters is his motivation. As Dean has suggested, Peters came in and worked his butt off to become a very good LT. But, what was his motivation - to better the team or to earn a big paycheck? Seeing as how he held out for more money the very moment he was labeled as a good LT, I can guess an answer.

 

So back to my concern, if his primary motivation is more money, then what does he do after he gets that big contract? Does he begin to slack off and become mediocre or does he continue to excel and improve his game? The league is absolutely littered with guys that played lights out, got their big contract, and then became very average. Would Peters become that type of player? I don't know, but it is a concern.

[eball]

One of my concerns with Peters is his motivation. As Dean has suggested, Peters came in and worked his butt off to become a very good LT. But, what was his motivation - to better the team or to earn a big paycheck? Seeing as how he held out for more money the very moment he was labeled as a good LT, I can guess an answer.

 

So back to my concern, if his primary motivation is more money, then what does he do after he gets that big contract? Does he begin to slack off and become mediocre or does he continue to excel and improve his game? The league is absolutely littered with guys that played lights out, got their big contract, and then became very average. Would Peters become that type of player? I don't know, but it is a concern.

Don't forget, he also let his teammates hang out to dry and certainly was aware of the dings Walker and Chambers were taking in his place. Doesn't exactly give you a "warm n' fuzzy" about Peters' commitment to the BILLS.

[GG]

One of my concerns with Peters is his motivation. As Dean has suggested, Peters came in and worked his butt off to become a very good LT. But, what was his motivation - to better the team or to earn a big paycheck? Seeing as how he held out for more money the very moment he was labeled as a good LT, I can guess an answer.

 

So back to my concern, if his primary motivation is more money, then what does he do after he gets that big contract? Does he begin to slack off and become mediocre or does he continue to excel and improve his game? The league is absolutely littered with guys that played lights out, got their big contract, and then became very average. Would Peters become that type of player? I don't know, but it is a concern.

 

That in a nutshell is the concern for the team. OBD knew what his hold out meant. The implied rule to the negotiation is that Peters would hold up his end of the bargain and report in game shape when he showed up (or at least be very close). As it's taken him more than a month to be game ready, there certainly is a huge question of whether he will be able to perform at elite LT status for the duration of his new and bigger contract. The other times Wilson caved to players' demands, he was rewarded by solid play from Bruce & Kelly. The signs don't look good for Peters.

[dave mcbride]

This isn't telling us anything we don't already know, but it doesn't reflect well on Peters.

 

http://www.profootballweekly.com/PFW/The+W...+It/default.htm

 

 

O-line holding Bills' offense back

 

 

Prior to his concussion, QB Trent Edwards was playing fantastic. RB Marshawn Lynch is plowing forward. And the receivers, particularly Lee Evans, are catching the ball better than they have in years. But the reason the Bills rank 17th in the league in offense is because they still haven't gotten their line to play up to its capabilities. Much of the blame is being directed at Jason Peters, arguably the game's most talented left tackle. Peters missed all of training camp in a contractual stalemate, and we hear his missed time has put him substantially behind in terms of learning the protection nuances of new offensive coordinator Turk Schonert's scheme. And because ORT Langston Walker had to switch over to the left side in Peters' absence, he was behind in learning his responsibilities on the right side. The line already has allowed 16 sacks, one of the league's higher figures.

[The Dean]

I did read it, but frankly I don't care about last year, and what happens in the future is to a certain extent based on present performance assuming the player is healthy (and he's healthy). So right now, I'm not seeing a Walter Jones-in-his-prime player out there but rather a slightly out-of-shape yet genuine athlete who messes up far too often mentally for a player of his alleged caliber. He is in his prime as well, so it's not like he's going to get much better (if at all). Usually, the injuries begin to catch up to players when they hit their late 20s, after which they substitute savvy for lost ability. I'm not real confident about his savvy, I have to say.

 

Having said this, I like Peters and want him to remain a Bill. He is truly talented. However, unless he performs like Walter Jones -- a player whose performance did *not* nosedive after annual holdouts -- I'm somewhat adverse to giving him Walter Jones' salary.

 

 

If you read my original post, then you know I never suggested that Peters was underpaid, if he continues to play at the level he is playing at now. In fact, I even suggested that Peters (and his agent) want nothing to do with talking contract, at the moment.

 

Initially, I simply laid out a scenario that I think may have played out to get Peters and the Bills to the point they are now at. If nothing changes, I expect Peters won't be the Bills LT for long. But, I also suggest that things very well may change for the better, and gave some suggestions on how the Peters and Bills might handle things IF...again IF, Peters returns to his Pro Bowl form.

[dave mcbride]

If you read my original post, then you know I never suggested that Peters was underpaid, if he continues to play at the level he is playing at now. In fact, I even suggested that Peters (and his agent) want nothing to do with talking contract, at the moment.

 

Initially, I simply laid out a scenario that I think may have played out to get Peters and the Bills to the point they are now at. If nothing changes, I expect Peters won't be the Bills LT for long. But, I also suggest that things very well may change for the better, and gave some suggestions on how the Peters and Bills might handle things IF...again IF, Peters returns to his Pro Bowl form.

OK - I think I latched onto a phrase in your original post and took it out of context.

[The Dean]

OK - I think I latched onto a phrase in your original post and took it out of context.

 

 

No problem.