Jason Peters vs. someone like...

[Lv-Bills]

I've watched Joe Thomas every play of this first Cleveland drive so far, and he has pushed his man downfield on almost every block so far. Thomas is a stud. I'm trying to see what all the hype is about with Thomas, and it appears that he is as strong as a bull in his second year already.

 

He did get help from his TE on the 3rd and goal, but he looks smooth.

 

Now Peters on the other hand....he seems to dominate and then take plays off. Dominate then take plays off. Don't really know what I'm trying to say here.....but I do know that Thomas, so far, has that dominant type LT play on EVERY play, while our "franchise" player doesn't look as smooth.

 

Jason....you are a budding talent, but don't ever fuggin skip camp and hold out again.....you aren't at that level yet. It's amazing at the push some guys get every play when you focus on them. On the first drive, Thomas reached the second level of defenders by either pushing his man there, or hitting his guy and getting there himself.

[billsfanmiami(oh)]

No doubt Peters hurt himself and the team by holding out. But it seems like anointing Thomas after watching a handful of plays, while dogging on Peters (who we all watch every week) probably isn't quite fair. From what I have seen from Thomas the last 2 years has been quite good though. Wish Peters was playing at his "Pro Bowl" level so we could make a better evaluation.

[The Dean]

How much does $$ Joe Thomas make?

[Lv-Bills]

No doubt Peters hurt himself and the team by holding out. But it seems like anointing Thomas after watching a handful of plays, while dogging on Peters (who we all watch every week) probably isn't quite fair. From what I have seen from Thomas the last 2 years has been quite good though. Wish Peters was playing at his "Pro Bowl" level so we could make a better evaluation.

I think the only "annointing" around here were most Bills fans annointing Peters the best LT in the game just because he made the pro bowl one season. He even bought into his own hype and has cost himself.

 

A lot of people wanted to know who is better than Peters.....and tonight I'm watching out of curiousity Joe Thomas play because he's supposedly the real deal. As I type this, he just got downfield on a botched screen and leveled a CB in space. He looks damn good.

 

Peters on the other hand..........well.........Cmon Jason. Dammit. Why in the hell did his agent make him holdout.

 

[Lv-Bills]

How much does $$ Joe Thomas make?

Not sure, but judging by his start tonight, he deserves a hell of lot more than Peters.

[Dan]

FWIW, Peyton Manning said in his post game press conference yesterday, that it finally feels like he got through with the preseason. With luck, Peters feels the same way right about now.

[The Dean]

Not sure, but judging by his start tonight, he deserves a hell of lot more than Peters.

 

 

Here it is, first contract in the NFL...right outta college: 5 years, up to $42.5 Million. $22-$23 Million guaranteed.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2950674

[LynchMob23]

Not sure, but judging by his start tonight, he deserves a hell of lot more than Peters.

Joe Thomas, without having played a down in the NFL became the highest paid lineman in the NFL. He still maintains that status, having been good for one year.

[Lv-Bills]

Joe Thomas, without having played a down in the NFL became the highest paid lineman in the NFL. He still maintains that status, having been good for one year.

And he has maintained a level of dominance in only his second year. He's already a consistent performer. Peters, on the other hand, almost ate his way out of football at Arkansas. Kind of got his act together in Buffalo, and made the switch to LT by working hard to get there. And then, like many here who believe what's typed about him, he made a bonehead mistake and held out for more money after ONE pro bowl year.

 

In no way, shape or form has this worked out well for either Peters, or his team. Peters needs to remember what got him here......the hard work he needs to stay in shape in order to play well. He made the wrong decision, and as a result, may be losing bargaining power to be mentioned with the best LT's in the game......because he's not going to be mentioned with any of them too much longer. This is especially true if Thomas stays in the AFC and Long is as good as they think he has been so far.

 

Peters fugged up. I just wish I knew if it was his own fault or his agent.

[lets_go_bills]

It's Peters' fault. At the end of the day he's his own man. Agents work for you, not the other way around. Peters screwed up. Big time.

[thebug]

Peters will have a great game against the Chargers. Marshawn will run for more than 100 yards with 2 TD's and Peters will play a huge roll in that. I won't say "take that to the bank" just in case your bank went under.

 

 

GO BILLS!

[The Dean]

Peters fugged up. I just wish I knew if it was his own fault or his agent.

 

 

Warning: Dik Smub length post:

 

We will never probably know the entire story. Unlike some, I like to take a somewhat objective look at these things, without casting the player, team or agent, as the villain. I understand that many are pissed at Peters because his hold out has hurt his, and the team's, progress. But, assuming, because he made this one error in judgment, he is a piece of crap and/or can never regain his old form is stupid and juvenile.

 

Here's my best guess at what transpired...much of this is total speculation and I want that to be clear from the start.

 

Peters was a UFA who was transformed from a TE to a Tackle. He came to the NFL very raw, and obviously was even rawer when it came to playing the offensive line (not counting TE). He's not supposed to be all that bright, so that he made the transition from TE to Tackle to Pro Bowl LT, in a very short period of time, tells you something about the guys athletic ability and work ethic, IMO.

 

When it became clear that Peters was someone the Bills wanted to keep around, they gave him a nice new contract. That contract was GREAT for a guy who was a former UFA, lucky to be with any NFL team. Well, as he started to get better, and eventually become an Pro Bowl LT (deserved, or not, it was clear he was getting to be a VERY good player) his contract was below what LTs, and especially very good LTs, make. So, he's got a great contract considering where he came from, but a poor contract, considering the position he now played, and excelled at.

 

I think it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Bills would have to reevaluate the contract, and make some adjustments well before the end of the existing contract. That fact was even discussed on TSW, and most agreed that a raise was, likely, in order. My guess is Jason understood that, as well, but he was almost certainly reminded of the fact by his agent, friends, family, etc.

 

IMO, up to this point in the story, there are no real issues. Everybody knows that Jason is underpaid for what he does, but there are likely disagreements on how that gets rectified. The Bills initial response was probably something like, "Hey, you just signed a new contract. We will redo it, but give us one more year at that level, and show us you are for real." His agent, Eugene Parker (new agent, I think...anyone confirm this?) probably said, "Jason, you just made the Pro Bowl. You are the talk of the league. Despite being the best OL in the team Walker and Dockery make more than you. I can get you this new contract THIS year, but you have to do what I say." Now, we can debate whether Jason's intelligence here, but like most players, he trusts his agent. Perhaps, in Jason's case, he doesn't come up with the right questions, and doesn't have the wherewithal to DIRECT his agent. I'm guessing Eugene Parker is a LOT smarter than Jason Peters.

 

Parker tells him the only way he will see more $$ this year is to hold out. The Bills say, they won't negotiate with a holdout. Peters' agent knows that he will have Peters report before the start of the season, so he knows HE (the agent) will see his $$. So, he ain't worried. Plus, he thinks he can pull this off. Hell, a monkey can see that, in the Bills' salary structure, Peters is getting screwed. But, the Bills say, "Report and we'll talk. Don't report and we don't talk." If Peters were a smarter guy, I think he says, about halfway through training camp, "This ain't working, Eugene. I gotta go to work. Keep talking and get this done ASAP." Instead, Peters continues to trust his agent. (Why I really think this is, Peters didn't return calls from the Bills. That sounds like "agent orders" to me.)

 

So, right before the season, Parker sees his bluff was called, and, of course, Parker need to be paid, so he tells Jason, "Report. They say they will negotiate a new contract. The holdout worked!" Well, the Bills had already expressed willingness to talk if Jason reported, so they won nothing, in reality.

 

 

So, who is to blame? Well, everyone has some culpability, although I think the Bills come out OK, on this one, if they were willing to talk from the start. The only way the Bills look bad, is if they weren't even willing to talk before the start of OTAs. Everyone is responsible for their decisions, IMO, so Peters is to blame, too. I cut him some slack, as I suspect he is playing this negotiating games at a disadvantage. Still, he decided to trust the agent. Finally, there is the agent. I lay most of the blame on his failed strategy. Early on, it may have looked like a solid course. But, it should have been clear to him by preseason, that it wasn't working. As I don't cut him the same break as Peters, he should have known better, and not let the holdout go on for so long.

 

Where it goes from here. The damage of the holdout is done, to the Bills and to Peters' new contract dreams. But, that doesn't mean that the damage to both can't be rectified and the wounds healed. If I'm Peters (and his agent) I don't want to talk about the contract right now. Peters has to work doubly hard to get back to his old form. If and when that happens, the damage to the Bills should be healed. With luck, that will happen before the playoffs, and Peters will be driving hard in the playoffs to show the Bills he really does deserve a new contract. It is possible this whole thing ends up helping the Bills, by the end of the year, if Peters is in shape and motivated to make a statement.

 

So, if he returns to form, then the negotiations should (and likely will) begin. But, IMO, there is no question that Peters and his agent, cost themselves some real $$ and a lot of good will with OBD and the Bills' fans. The "fool me once..." rule should now be in effect. He needs to understand that, with the Bills, he will achieve nothing with a holdout. The Bills need to show him, and all their players, that if you perform, you will be taken care of. The Evans situation shows both sides of that philosophy.

[buckeyemike]

Here it is, first contract in the NFL...right outta college: 5 years, up to $42.5 Million. $22-$23 Million guaranteed.

 

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2950674

 

Yep. Consistent with a #3 overall draft pick. And imagine, I wanted the Browns to take Brady Quinn in that spot.

 

I thought until last night, Thomas had a bit of a sophomore slump. Not anymore. Thomas is the type of player who can and will go to multiple Pro Bowls, barring injury. The Browns are hoping he's the next Anthony Munoz.

[Bill from NYC]

Warning: Dik Smub length post:

 

We will never probably know the entire story. Unlike some, I like to take a somewhat objective look at these things, without casting the player, team or agent, as the villain. I understand that many are pissed at Peters because his hold out has hurt his, and the team's, progress. But, assuming, because he made this one error in judgment, he is a piece of crap and/or can never regain his old form is stupid and juvenile.

 

Here's my best guess at what transpired...much of this is total speculation and I want that to be clear from the start.

 

Peters was a UFA who was transformed from a TE to a Tackle. He came to the NFL very raw, and obviously was even rawer when it came to playing the offensive line (not counting TE). He's not supposed to be all that bright, so that he made the transition from TE to Tackle to Pro Bowl LT, in a very short period of time, tells you something about the guys athletic ability and work ethic, IMO.

 

When it became clear that Peters was someone the Bills wanted to keep around, they gave him a nice new contract. That contract was GREAT for a guy who was a former UFA, lucky to be with any NFL team. Well, as he started to get better, and eventually become an Pro Bowl LT (deserved, or not, it was clear he was getting to be a VERY good player) his contract was below what LTs, and especially very good LTs, make. So, he's got a great contract considering where he came from, but a poor contract, considering the position he now played, and excelled at.

 

I think it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Bills would have to reevaluate the contract, and make some adjustments well before the end of the existing contract. That fact was even discussed on TSW, and most agreed that a raise was, likely, in order. My guess is Jason understood that, as well, but he was almost certainly reminded of the fact by his agent, friends, family, etc.

 

IMO, up to this point in the story, there are no real issues. Everybody knows that Jason is underpaid for what he does, but there are likely disagreements on how that gets rectified. The Bills initial response was probably something like, "Hey, you just signed a new contract. We will redo it, but give us one more year at that level, and show us you are for real." His agent, Eugene Parker (new agent, I think...anyone confirm this?) probably said, "Jason, you just made the Pro Bowl. You are the talk of the league. Despite being the best OL in the team Walker and Dockery make more than you. I can get you this new contract THIS year, but you have to do what I say." Now, we can debate whether Jason's intelligence here, but like most players, he trusts his agent. Perhaps, in Jason's case, he doesn't come up with the right questions, and doesn't have the wherewithal to DIRECT his agent. I'm guessing Eugene Parker is a LOT smarter than Jason Peters.

 

Parker tells him the only way he will see more $$ this year is to hold out. The Bills say, they won't negotiate with a holdout. Peters' agent knows that he will have Peters report before the start of the season, so he knows HE (the agent) will see his $$. So, he ain't worried. Plus, he thinks he can pull this off. Hell, a monkey can see that, in the Bills' salary structure, Peters is getting screwed. But, the Bills say, "Report and we'll talk. Don't report and we don't talk." If Peters were a smarter guy, I think he says, about halfway through training camp, "This ain't working, Eugene. I gotta go to work. Keep talking and get this done ASAP." Instead, Peters continues to trust his agent. (Why I really think this is, Peters didn't return calls from the Bills. That sounds like "agent orders" to me.)

 

So, right before the season, Parker sees his bluff was called, and, of course, Parker need to be paid, so he tells Jason, "Report. They say they will negotiate a new contract. The holdout worked!" Well, the Bills had already expressed willingness to talk if Jason reported, so they won nothing, in reality.

 

 

So, who is to blame? Well, everyone has some culpability, although I think the Bills come out OK, on this one, if they were willing to talk from the start. The only way the Bills look bad, is if they weren't even willing to talk before the start of OTAs. Everyone is responsible for their decisions, IMO, so Peters is to blame, too. I cut him some slack, as I suspect he is playing this negotiating games at a disadvantage. Still, he decided to trust the agent. Finally, there is the agent. I lay most of the blame on his failed strategy. Early on, it may have looked like a solid course. But, it should have been clear to him by preseason, that it wasn't working. As I don't cut him the same break as Peters, he should have known better, and not let the holdout go on for so long.

 

Where it goes from here. The damage of the holdout is done, to the Bills and to Peters' new contract dreams. But, that doesn't mean that the damage to both can't be rectified and the wounds healed. If I'm Peters (and his agent) I don't want to talk about the contract right now. Peters has to work doubly hard to get back to his old form. If and when that happens, the damage to the Bills should be healed. With luck, that will happen before the playoffs, and Peters will be driving hard in the playoffs to show the Bills he really does deserve a new contract. It is possible this whole thing ends up helping the Bills, by the end of the year, if Peters is in shape and motivated to make a statement.

 

So, if he returns to form, then the negotiations should (and likely will) begin. But, IMO, there is no question that Peters and his agent, cost themselves some real $$ and a lot of good will with OBD and the Bills' fans. The "fool me once..." rule should now be in effect. He needs to understand that, with the Bills, he will achieve nothing with a holdout. The Bills need to show him, and all their players, that if you perform, you will be taken care of. The Evans situation shows both sides of that philosophy.

 

Imo, this post perfectly describes what happened wrt Peters. I am sure that he knows that he screwed up, because he really was playing at a Joe Thomas level, and now he is not. Not yet.

 

If JP regains his form (which I think he will and I already see evidence), he will get the big bucks. My hope is that he gets it from the Bills, and not as a UFA. Jason Peters playing to form with a long term contract would be a truly great think for this organization and it's fans.

[mrpunchy]

Warning: Dik Smub length post:

 

We will never probably know the entire story. Unlike some, I like to take a somewhat objective look at these things, without casting the player, team or agent, as the villain. I understand that many are pissed at Peters because his hold out has hurt his, and the team's, progress. But, assuming, because he made this one error in judgment, he is a piece of crap and/or can never regain his old form is stupid and juvenile.

 

Here's my best guess at what transpired...much of this is total speculation and I want that to be clear from the start.

 

Peters was a UFA who was transformed from a TE to a Tackle. He came to the NFL very raw, and obviously was even rawer when it came to playing the offensive line (not counting TE). He's not supposed to be all that bright, so that he made the transition from TE to Tackle to Pro Bowl LT, in a very short period of time, tells you something about the guys athletic ability and work ethic, IMO.

 

When it became clear that Peters was someone the Bills wanted to keep around, they gave him a nice new contract. That contract was GREAT for a guy who was a former UFA, lucky to be with any NFL team. Well, as he started to get better, and eventually become an Pro Bowl LT (deserved, or not, it was clear he was getting to be a VERY good player) his contract was below what LTs, and especially very good LTs, make. So, he's got a great contract considering where he came from, but a poor contract, considering the position he now played, and excelled at.

 

I think it was pretty much a foregone conclusion that the Bills would have to reevaluate the contract, and make some adjustments well before the end of the existing contract. That fact was even discussed on TSW, and most agreed that a raise was, likely, in order. My guess is Jason understood that, as well, but he was almost certainly reminded of the fact by his agent, friends, family, etc.

 

IMO, up to this point in the story, there are no real issues. Everybody knows that Jason is underpaid for what he does, but there are likely disagreements on how that gets rectified. The Bills initial response was probably something like, "Hey, you just signed a new contract. We will redo it, but give us one more year at that level, and show us you are for real." His agent, Eugene Parker (new agent, I think...anyone confirm this?) probably said, "Jason, you just made the Pro Bowl. You are the talk of the league. Despite being the best OL in the team Walker and Dockery make more than you. I can get you this new contract THIS year, but you have to do what I say." Now, we can debate whether Jason's intelligence here, but like most players, he trusts his agent. Perhaps, in Jason's case, he doesn't come up with the right questions, and doesn't have the wherewithal to DIRECT his agent. I'm guessing Eugene Parker is a LOT smarter than Jason Peters.

 

Parker tells him the only way he will see more $$ this year is to hold out. The Bills say, they won't negotiate with a holdout. Peters' agent knows that he will have Peters report before the start of the season, so he knows HE (the agent) will see his $$. So, he ain't worried. Plus, he thinks he can pull this off. Hell, a monkey can see that, in the Bills' salary structure, Peters is getting screwed. But, the Bills say, "Report and we'll talk. Don't report and we don't talk." If Peters were a smarter guy, I think he says, about halfway through training camp, "This ain't working, Eugene. I gotta go to work. Keep talking and get this done ASAP." Instead, Peters continues to trust his agent. (Why I really think this is, Peters didn't return calls from the Bills. That sounds like "agent orders" to me.)

 

So, right before the season, Parker sees his bluff was called, and, of course, Parker need to be paid, so he tells Jason, "Report. They say they will negotiate a new contract. The holdout worked!" Well, the Bills had already expressed willingness to talk if Jason reported, so they won nothing, in reality.

 

 

So, who is to blame? Well, everyone has some culpability, although I think the Bills come out OK, on this one, if they were willing to talk from the start. The only way the Bills look bad, is if they weren't even willing to talk before the start of OTAs. Everyone is responsible for their decisions, IMO, so Peters is to blame, too. I cut him some slack, as I suspect he is playing this negotiating games at a disadvantage. Still, he decided to trust the agent. Finally, there is the agent. I lay most of the blame on his failed strategy. Early on, it may have looked like a solid course. But, it should have been clear to him by preseason, that it wasn't working. As I don't cut him the same break as Peters, he should have known better, and not let the holdout go on for so long.

 

Where it goes from here. The damage of the holdout is done, to the Bills and to Peters' new contract dreams. But, that doesn't mean that the damage to both can't be rectified and the wounds healed. If I'm Peters (and his agent) I don't want to talk about the contract right now. Peters has to work doubly hard to get back to his old form. If and when that happens, the damage to the Bills should be healed. With luck, that will happen before the playoffs, and Peters will be driving hard in the playoffs to show the Bills he really does deserve a new contract. It is possible this whole thing ends up helping the Bills, by the end of the year, if Peters is in shape and motivated to make a statement.

 

So, if he returns to form, then the negotiations should (and likely will) begin. But, IMO, there is no question that Peters and his agent, cost themselves some real $$ and a lot of good will with OBD and the Bills' fans. The "fool me once..." rule should now be in effect. He needs to understand that, with the Bills, he will achieve nothing with a holdout. The Bills need to show him, and all their players, that if you perform, you will be taken care of. The Evans situation shows both sides of that philosophy.

 

GREAT POST! Well worth the read

[d_wag]

Imo, this post perfectly describes what happened wrt Peters. I am sure that he knows that he screwed up, because he really was playing at a Joe Thomas level, and now he is not. Not yet.

 

If JP regains his form (which I think he will and I already see evidence), he will get the big bucks. My hope is that he gets it from the Bills, and not as a UFA. Jason Peters playing to form with a long term contract would be a truly great think for this organization and it's fans.

 

if he's going to get paid as a UFA, he's got a long wait - 2 more years on the contract and the bills could easily use the F-Tag on him after that, if he's still performing.........the bills do hold the cards and always have........they stared him down before and they will again if they have to

 

IMO, the damage has been done.........peters play this year does not reflect an increase is needed - in fact, a decrease would be more appropriate.........regardless of how he plays the rest of the year, i think that peters/parker's demands will be unrealistic and will not meet up with what the bills think he deserves.......i would hope they would have enough sense to get in to camp next year on time so that he can actually be ready to perform at a level he is capable of and needs to perform at to get paid, but i have my doubts they have that much common sense to take those steps.......the holdout was a big mistake and it will probably be repeated.......it's unfortunate, but i see no fault on the bills part......this is just a greedy, misguided player making poor decisions

[eball]

Warning: Dik Smub length post:

 

<snipped>

Dean, you raise some interesting points, however I disagree with your explanation that Parker directed Peters to report so PARKER would be paid. If I recall correctly, Parker was only recently hired by Peters, and therefore whether or not Peters reported Parker won't earn a dime until there is a new contract.

 

I believe Parker finally told Peters to report because he knew he'd start getting pressure from Peters if the game checks weren't coming in. He was able to tell Peters "we won" because he received "new" assurances from the Bills that they'd resume extension discussions once Peters was in town.

 

It's really a sad situation all the way around. I don't blame Peters because honestly, I don't believe he was smart and/or savvy enough to handle the situation the right way. I don't blame the Bills because BASED UPON WHAT WE'VE HEARD AND READ, they were consistent in their position all the way along. The contract extensions they gave to other players -- including, not coincidentally, Lee Evans -- suggest they will keep their word.

 

That only leaves one party to blame -- Eugene Parker.

[Bill from NYC]

if he's going to get paid as a UFA, he's got a long wait - 2 more years on the contract and the bills could easily use the F-Tag on him after that, if he's still performing.........the bills do hold the cards and always have........they stared him down before and they will again if they have to

 

IMO, the damage has been done.........peters play this year does not reflect an increase is needed - in fact, a decrease would be more appropriate.........regardless of how he plays the rest of the year, i think that peters/parker's demands will be unrealistic and will not meet up with what the bills think he deserves.......i would hope they would have enough sense to get in to camp next year on time so that he can actually be ready to perform at a level he is capable of and needs to perform at to get paid, but i have my doubts they have that much common sense to take those steps.......the holdout was a big mistake and it will probably be repeated.......it's unfortunate, but i see no fault on the bills part......this is just a greedy, misguided player making poor decisions

 

The holdout was a huge mistake, and the Bills do hold most of the cards, but not all of them.

 

If Peters returns to form, it will at some point be in the Bills best interests to lock him up to a long term deal. Will he repeat the holdout? I hope not. Time will tell, but again, if he returns to 07 form, it would not be a mistake to give him a raise, although it might seem to be if one is obsessed with Peters on a personal level.

[The Senator]

Jason who?

[The Dean]

Dean, you raise some interesting points, however I disagree with your explanation that Parker directed Peters to report so PARKER would be paid. If I recall correctly, Parker was only recently hired by Peters, and therefore whether or not Peters reported Parker won't earn a dime until there is a new contract.

 

I believe Parker finally told Peters to report because he knew he'd start getting pressure from Peters if the game checks weren't coming in. He was able to tell Peters "we won" because he received "new" assurances from the Bills that they'd resume extension discussions once Peters was in town.

 

It's really a sad situation all the way around. I don't blame Peters because honestly, I don't believe he was smart and/or savvy enough to handle the situation the right way. I don't blame the Bills because BASED UPON WHAT WE'VE HEARD AND READ, they were consistent in their position all the way along. The contract extensions they gave to other players -- including, not coincidentally, Lee Evans -- suggest they will keep their word.

 

That only leaves one party to blame -- Eugene Parker.

 

 

You may be right about the $$ and Parker, eball. As I noted, there was a lot of speculation on my part (plus, I was tired, stoned and half-drunk when I wrote it ).

 

I'm guessing every party shares at least a little bit of fault in these things, but as a I said, the only real fault I can find with the Bills is IF they refused to even talk to Parker, about the contract, during the offseason. By "talking", I mean saying "We understand that Jason had a great year, and his contract looks like it might be out of line, for his current assignment and the level he is now at. We have to get a bunch of deals done, but, trust us. Have Jason report and, during the season, after we take care of a few situations (Evans and such) we WILL deal with Jason."

 

The Bills could have simply been too busy doing offseason deals that HAD to be done, signing draft picks, etc...and not really paying attention to the Peters' situation. Maybe Peters and Parker took it as a slight, or something. There are a lot of egos involved in this s#it.