Gordio Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 This is a guy who just last season had 99 catches, 1172 yards and 5 touchdowns. He isn't on that pace this year, what with the Chiefs asking him to block more and having already used 3 different starting quarterbacks, including some guy named Tyler Thigpen. But he has NOT lost very much of his speed or athleticism. This is still one of the premier tight ends in the game. As for the chance that his game is about to drop off, Gonzo has proven to be one of the most durable players in the league and keeps himself in excellent shape. He could be one of those rare players who remains relevant well into their 30s. Since he was drafted, he's appeared in 156 of the Chiefs 158 regular season games. Personally, I would have no problem giving away a 2nd and a 5th. The prospect of Edwards playing with Evans and Gonzalez is too enticing to pass up. I like the way you think. Get it done, if it costs us a 2nd & a 5th so be it.
drnykterstein Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I like the way you think. Get it done, if it costs us a 2nd & a 5th so be it. o_0 - the Giants have only offered a 6th. So you would trade a James Hardy and a Reggie Corner to them for this guy?
The Dean Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 As everyone is throwing around numbers based on "reports", I think we should all be realistic here. Tony G isn't going anywhere for a 6th round pick. I'm guessing some team will offer AT LEAST a 4th rounder, and more likely a 3rd. With that said, I'd be shocked if the Bills parted with a 2nd and a 5th. I'm not sure if I would be mad, but I would be too shocked to know for sure.
ganesh Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 JP is going to free agency when the season ends, because thats where the money is. Because of that, a 7th round pick has more trade value than JP Losman does. Why would a team thats going nowhere this year want him when he's just going to play out the string and leave? Wouldn't Kansas City be a logical choice for Losman to compete for a starting job in 2009 ? How many other teams need a starting QB and how many are going to make Losman their starting QB ? Detroit, Kansas City, .... and not many others..
The Dean Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Wouldn't Kansas City be a logical choice for Losman to compete for a starting job in 2009 ? How many other teams need a starting QB and how many are going to make Losman their starting QB ? Detroit, Kansas City, .... and not many others.. Perhaps. But, as he is a FA after this year, how do you figure that influences his inclusion in a trade to KC?
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Perhaps. But, as he is a FA after this year, how do you figure that influences his inclusion in a trade to KC? Exactly. His contract status means his trade value is next to nothing. He's going to hit free agency, and he's going to sign with the highest bidder.
ganesh Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Perhaps. But, as he is a FA after this year, how do you figure that influences his inclusion in a trade to KC? KC Gets a QB whom they can audition for the rest of the season and will have exclusive rights to discuss a new contract with JP if he does work out for them. The Bills get something for Losman. The real problem though with Losman being in any trade is that the Bills really do not have a good backup QB if Edwards were to miss time.
The Dean Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 KC Gets a QB whom they can audition for the rest of the season and will have exclusive rights to discuss a new contract with JP if he does work out for them. The Bills get something for Losman. The real problem though with Losman being in any trade is that the Bills really do not have a good backup QB if Edwards were to miss time. Well, I understand the audition part, although having missed all of their workouts, training camp and preseason, I doubt they would get much to look at, as it is unlikely they would play him much, IMO. But, why would they have "exclusive rights" to JP at the end of the year? Isn't he a UFA? Also, as you note, for the Bills to do this is very risky. You trade for Tony G to put yourself over the top, and ditch your #2 QB in the process. Doesn't add up, for me. Not saying they wouldn't do it, though.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 KC Gets a QB whom they can audition for the rest of the season and will have exclusive rights to discuss a new contract with JP if he does work out for them. The Bills get something for Losman. The real problem though with Losman being in any trade is that the Bills really do not have a good backup QB if Edwards were to miss time. There's plenty of tape on Losman for teams to figure out where he's at as a quarterback. Could KC bringing him in for 11 games allow them to gauge Losman's ability more accurately than film? Its possible, but the difference it would make surely isn't equatable to a 2nd or 3rd round pick. As for KC having exclusive rights...Losman simply would not have any reason to sign with them. He'll have no loyalty to any of the coaches or players, the team's higher execs, or the city. He'll have every reason to simply hit free agency and sell himself off to the highest bidder, who would in turn have the most perrogative to give him playing time. If thats KC, than so be it. If it isn't KC...than so be it. The exclusive rights they'd get for a limited time wouldn't do them much good here, imo.
The Dean Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 There's plenty of tape on Losman for teams to figure out where he's at as a quarterback. Could KC bringing him in for 11 games allow them to gauge Losman's ability more accurately than film? Its possible, but the difference it would make surely isn't equatable to a 2nd or 3rd round pick. As for KC having exclusive rights...Losman simply would not have any reason to sign with them. He'll have no loyalty to any of the coaches or players, the team's higher execs, or the city. He'll have every reason to simply hit free agency and sell himself off to the highest bidder, who would in turn have the most perrogative to give him playing time. If thats KC, than so be it. If it isn't KC...than so be it. The exclusive rights they'd get for a limited time wouldn't do them much good here, imo. Boone (or someone), if you don't mind, please explain what "exclusive rights" KC would have on JP, in the very unlikely event a trade like that happened. Thanks.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Boone (or someone), if you don't mind, please explain what "exclusive rights" KC would have on JP, in the very unlikely event a trade like that happened. Thanks. I took it to mean that period between the end of the season and the start of free agency, where only the player's former team can negotiate with him. Wouldn't really mean much here imo, cause Losman would just wait that period out and become a UFA.
Tsaikotic Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 KC Gets a QB whom they can audition for the rest of the season and will have exclusive rights to discuss a new contract with JP if he does work out for them. The Bills get something for Losman. The real problem though with Losman being in any trade is that the Bills really do not have a good backup QB if Edwards were to miss time. hmm Id have to say your mistaken on that point..I believe Hamden will be more of a capable #2 than you think...besides I think Bills make Hamdan #2 next season anyways, so why not do it now....as for Gonzo, Id only offer a 4th round pick, no more
The Dean Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I took it to mean that period between the end of the season and the start of free agency, where only the player's former team can negotiate with him. Wouldn't really mean much here imo, cause Losman would just wait that period out and become a UFA. Oh. Then I, mostly, agree. I guess it is POSSIBLE that JP really clicks with the coaches and plays well and they make him a fantastic offer...but, that's quite a long shot, given that he'd be joining them mid season. And, that is certainly nothing to build a trade around.
jarthur31 Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I know there are people talking about the Gonzalez to Buffalo angle. Chris Brown has it on his blog that there is an unconfirmed story from ESPNews that Buffalo is interested in Tony Gonzalez. However... The report says Chiefs CEO King Carl (Peterson) wants a first and change. That's too high, and I'd be surprised to see KC get any more than a second. Gonzalez has some tread left on him, but a first is probably the initial offer, which is never accepted. TG has made it known he'd like to get out while the Chiefs undergo complete rebuild. The trade deadline is 10/14, and Chris Chambers went for a second last year. My gut tells me Buffalo does not consider Gonzalez for more than a third. His pay is manageable for 08 and 09, but there's some guaranteed money there as well. Then again, this is a must-win year for the Bills and there is no quality TE on the roster. You've got an H-Back type in Schouman and an injured rookie in Fine being the backups to the disappointing Royal. A 2nd is still too high and we don't have a need for a TE. Unless he's a beast at run blocking. Gonzalez doesn't have much left so I think it would be unwise to trade for him.
The Dean Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 hmm Id have to say your mistaken on that point..I believe Hamden will be more of a capable #2 than you think...besides I think Bills make Hamdan #2 next season anyways, so why not do it now....as for Gonzo, Id only offer a 4th round pick, no more I like Hamden, but I think the chances are very slim that the Bills don't attempt to find another #2 for next year. And, there is no objective basis for which to claim that Hamden would be a better #2 for the Bills, based on regular season play in the NFL. Hamden has thrown TWO passes in the NFL, in the ONE game in which he saw action. So, you can believe that, if you'd like, but there is simply no objective evidence for your belief. And, I could be wrong here, I doubt the Bills are going to risk a move like that based on the "belief" of Tsaikotic on TSW. (Where is that head shaking smiley?) EDIT: I just re-read your post and realize you didn't claim that GH would be BETTER than JP, just better than we might think. (It's getting late, my bad.) Actually, I don't disagree, but doubt the Bills risk the season on that possibility.
Tsaikotic Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 If Im not mistaken, Hamdan played in NFL Europe and in the preseason Hamdam looked very good...I believe the only reason JP is #2 is 1) - obviously more experience in the NFL, 2) - because he was a 1st round QB that makes to much $ to be a 3rd QB on the roster and 3) - I dont think Jauron wanted to totally destroy his confidence by takeing him so far down the latter...I could be wrong on #3
ExWNYer Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 As everyone is throwing around numbers based on "reports", I think we should all be realistic here. Tony G isn't going anywhere for a 6th round pick. I'm guessing some team will offer AT LEAST a 4th rounder, and more likely a 3rd. With that said, I'd be shocked if the Bills parted with a 2nd and a 5th. I'm not sure if I would be mad, but I would be too shocked to know for sure. I don't care what the reports say, KC is not getting a 1st Rounder for TG. Shockey went for a 2nd & a 5th. A conditional 4th (with the possibility to become a 3rd) & a 5th or a 3rd & 6th sounds about right, IMO. The trade deadline is fast approaching. KC can't hold anybody hostage. They're going nowhere anytime soon and they either get some mid-round pick(s) for him or they hold him and gain nothing in the process. I think he'll be dealt and my bet is they try to move him to an NFC team like the Giants or Iggles, even if they have to take a little bit less for him.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 I don't care what the reports say, KC is not getting a 1st Rounder for TG. Shockey went for a 2nd & a 5th. A conditional 4th (with the possibility to become a 3rd) & a 5th or a 3rd & 6th sounds about right, IMO. The trade deadline is fast approaching. KC can't hold anybody hostage. They're going nowhere anytime soon and they either get some mid-round pick(s) for him or they hold him and gain nothing in the process. I think he'll be dealt and my bet is they try to move him to an NFC team like the Giants or Iggles, even if they have to take a little bit less for him. There is no need for them to get rid of Gonzalez. Its not like he's about to hit free agency, and its not as if he's a malcontent demanding a trade. If they don't get an offer they like, they can just stand pat, and deal him in the offseason if they're so inclined...or they could just keep their best player and try to win some football games the next couple of years.
The Dean Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 If Im not mistaken, Hamdan played in NFL Europe and in the preseason Hamdam looked very good...I believe the only reason JP is #2 is 1) - obviously more experience in the NFL, 2) - because he was a 1st round QB that makes to much $ to be a 3rd QB on the roster and 3) - I dont think Jauron wanted to totally destroy his confidence by takeing him so far down the latter...I could be wrong on #3 I'd change #'s 2 and 3 to: Because, right now, JP is a better NFL QB than Hamdan. JP also looked good, in preseason, against 1st team defenses. For much of the game this past Sunday, JP didn't look too bad, either. Yes, Hamdan played in Europe, but hasn't been able to see virtually any action, while on the roster of four different NFL teams. I think he is better than most #3 QBs...but I don't have any objective reason for thinking that. I just think the kid looks like he has something. But, again, you probably don't risk a season, where you have a very good shot at the playoffs, on those kind of beliefs.
The Dean Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 There is no need for them to get rid of Gonzalez. Its not like he's about to hit free agency, and its not as if he's a malcontent demanding a trade. If they don't get an offer they like, they can just stand pat, and deal him in the offseason if they're so inclined...or they could just keep their best player and try to win some football games the next couple of years. Exactly. They are not likely to get a #1, and if they get a #2, it likely won't be with "change". But, they aren't going to simply give him away, either, IMO.
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