molson_golden2002 Posted October 10, 2008 Author Posted October 10, 2008 Its in Chicago, dude. But I'll agree with you, keep them dumb in Boston. Go Red Sox!
erynthered Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Johnny's in Boston and I know he just loves those Bostonians. You would think a gifted community organizer would be able to raise the needed money. Do you know of any from Chi-town?
erynthered Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Go Red Sox! Should be a good game tonight!! Go Rays!!
Ramius Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Its a sad day when we're arguing against science education. Going off what Johnny said, the Tally planetarium and challenger learning center is packed during the week with school groups from up to a few hours away. $3 million is chump change when it comes to science education for kids. Bitching about $3 mil for a planetarium is being penny wise and pound foolish.
DC Tom Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 Its a sad day when we're arguing against science education. Going off what Johnny said, the Tally planetarium and challenger learning center is packed during the week with school groups from up to a few hours away. $3 million is chump change when it comes to science education for kids. Bitching about $3 mil for a planetarium is being penny wise and pound foolish. And $200M in tax breaks for rum producers, and $2M for arrow manufacturers...It's all "penny-wise and pound-foolish", until you add it up. And that's beside the point that I dispute the educational value of planetariums. Always have, always will.
Johnny Coli Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 And that's beside the point that I dispute the educational value of planetariums. Always have, always will. If you've ever taken a group of kids to one you'd instantly see their value. And we're not talking about bailing out arrow shaft manufacturors. The point is that this particular earmark, which wasn't approved anyway, would have been a palatable use of federal dollars and not "pork" at all.
drnykterstein Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 And $200M in tax breaks for rum producers, and $2M for arrow manufacturers...It's all "penny-wise and pound-foolish", until you add it up. And that's beside the point that I dispute the educational value of planetariums. Always have, always will. What does Barack have to do with rum or wooden arrows? Come now, you must concede that there are some things worth putting money into, and others that are not. Science and education is highly likely going to fall into the category of good things to put money into.
SDS Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 I completely disagree. When was the last time a city asked for the money from a charity to fix a bridge or fill potholes? We have to start thinking about education in this country as if it were a vital part of the nation's infrastructure. If we would rather spend $3 million on a bridge than to upgrade the 40-year-old projector in the oldest planetarium in the Western Hemisphere (and a registered Historical Landmark), then this country really needs to take a long hard look at it's priorities. The number of students that would benefit from that $3 million over the next 40 years can't be factored into the cost. are you saying that you disagree with the notion that this could have been financed by the private sector or that we shouldn't even bother because it is now considered "infractructure"? Dude, if it is the latter - that is retarded. Use $3M of public funding - that only exists because we finance it with foreign loans - or just have wealthy philanthropists pay for it? Wow, tough decision there. If the place is that worthwhile and that popular - financing it in the private sector is a no-brainer. How that is even arguable is beyond me.
DC Tom Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 What does Barack have to do with rum or wooden arrows? It doesn't. I'm disputing the "Oh, three million isn't that much money" argument. Lots of things aren't that much money until you add them up.
drnykterstein Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 are you saying that you disagree with the notion that this could have been financed by the private sector or that we shouldn't even bother because it is now considered "infractructure"? Dude, if it is the latter - that is retarded. Use $3M of public funding - that only exists because we finance it with foreign loans - or just have wealthy philanthropists pay for it? Wow, tough decision there. If the place is that worthwhile and that popular - financing it in the private sector is a no-brainer. How that is even arguable is beyond me. Yuck, yeah that is a scarily true post.
Jon in Pasadena Posted October 10, 2008 Posted October 10, 2008 In my mind education should be a federal, not a state issue.Are you trying to deprive me of all the pleasure I get by laughing at Kansas?
Pine Barrens Mafia Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 In my mind education should be a federal, not a state issue. Because the Dept. of Education's been SO efficient and effective... Education shouldn't be a state OR a federal issue. It should be handled locally.
drnykterstein Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 Because the Dept. of Education's been SO efficient and effective... Education shouldn't be a state OR a federal issue. It should be handled locally. Agreed
Alaska Darin Posted October 12, 2008 Posted October 12, 2008 In my mind education should be a federal, not a state issue. Great idea. Let's take the next step and completely remove it from communities and give the power to people like George H. B. Bush who was fascinated by a grocery store scanner. We'll even forget the bang up job they've done with virtually every other program they've had their hands in. Then when you go to the local school board, you can feign anger when they throw up their hands and say "don't look at me, I don't have any power to change anything. Call your Senator.
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Tricky issue with education. People like to think that it is really bad now... And granted, it is not doing to well. But, think how bad it used to be... Especially at the local level. I know many wax rhapsodic about the good ole days... But the good ole days weren't what they were cracked up to be.
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 Great idea. Let's take the next step and completely remove it from communities and give the power to people like George H. B. Bush who was fascinated by a grocery store scanner. We'll even forget the bang up job they've done with virtually every other program they've had their hands in. Then when you go to the local school board, you can feign anger when they throw up their hands and say "don't look at me, I don't have any power to change anything. Call your Senator. I agree Darin local control is the best way to go... problem is the only adequate funding source for many areas comes from either the State or Fed level and that is where to whole process breaks down because everyone wants a say and promelgate a one size fits all and then don't provide the adequate flexibility to accomplish those tax... round and round we go, where we stop nobody knows. All I can say is education remains a contention cluster...
ExiledInIllinois Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 I agree Darin local control is the best way to go... problem is the only adequate funding source for many areas comes from either the State or Fed level and that is where to whole process breaks down because everyone wants a say and promelgate a one size fits all and then don't provide the adequate flexibility to accomplish those tax... round and round we go, where we stop nobody knows. All I can say is education remains a contention cluster... True. Just imagine what the schools AK would look like if the lower 48 didn't give them a leg up. The Alaskan Highway is still one of the most expensive (and difficult) engineering project ever attempted. Again... States like that are the "drinking buddies" that don't want to buy a round after the first three buddies have ponied up and bought. He will agrue with me till he is blue in the face... There is no way that the inter-mountain west, Appalacia, and other places would have made it into the 20 th century cost effectively without a leg up. My 1/2 of a cent.
finknottle Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 If you've ever taken a group of kids to one you'd instantly see their value. And we're not talking about bailing out arrow shaft manufacturors. The point is that this particular earmark, which wasn't approved anyway, would have been a palatable use of federal dollars and not "pork" at all. Would it? Then why wasn't NASA funding it? NASA makes their case before congress every year for their budget. Part of that budget is for education programs, both k-12 and support to museums. The point is that NASA weighs the many requests from supplicants around the country and decides which (in their professional opinion) are worth funding and which are not. Froim the Senate budget: Museums, Science Centers, and Planetariums - The Committee recommends $10,000,000 for a competitive grant program as authorized by section 616 of Public Law 109-155. Evidently this one didn't make the list. Nor did it make NSF's list of things to fund. Now you can argue that Congress needs to allocate more money to NASA so that Obama's planetarium gets a few million - fine, I'm with you as far as the NASA educational program goes. But how do we know there isn't a better educational opportunity which also didn't make the cut but wghich should be funded before this one? Regardless: until they do up the allocation (which is within their power), any money spent through earmarks is money not being sent to the professionals who evaluate proposals and award grants based on merit and through a transparent competitive process. I call that pork and a potential waste of money.
Alaska Darin Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 True. Just imagine what the schools AK would look like if the lower 48 didn't give them a leg up. The Alaskan Highway is still one of the most expensive (and difficult) engineering project ever attempted. Again... States like that are the "drinking buddies" that don't want to buy a round after the first three buddies have ponied up and bought. He will agrue with me till he is blue in the face... There is no way that the inter-mountain west, Appalacia, and other places would have made it into the 20 th century cost effectively without a leg up. My 1/2 of a cent. For about the 30th time: INFRASTRUCTURE IS A CONSTITUTIONALLY MANDATED FEDERAL RESPONSIBILITY. Each state would have plenty of money for education if the Federal government were handling ONLY what they were legally responsible for instead of trying to play the pied piper and mandating things most places don't need or want and can't pay for.
SDS Posted October 13, 2008 Posted October 13, 2008 For about the 30th time: INFRASTRUCTURE IS A CONSTITUTIONALLY MANDATED FEDERAL RESPONSIBILITY. Each state would have plenty of money for education if the Federal government were handling ONLY what they were legally responsible for instead of trying to play the pied piper and mandating things most places don't need or want and can't pay for. You know - whenever you quote him it ruins my "ignore this member" setting.
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