Pyrite Gal Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Fans with poor knowledge of the game only look at Sacks when it comes to DE's. I do not think any rational person was pleased with Schobel and the Ds performance on Sunday (I suspect the fact he popped off at Sullivan is an indicator that he likely is frustrated with his play Sunday and may have the usual injuries that come with the territory so he would be accused of whining if he talked about this reason for his level of play). However, in general I think Schobel is a victim for many fans of Bruce Smith disease such that as a highly paid player at DE fans are going to measure his performance by the showy stat of sacks and other contributions will be ignored. I think there is a reasonable middle ground here (though middle views tend not to have a lot of currency on the web generally or at TSW regarding the Blls0 but my sense is that Schobel's play and performance against noneother than former Bills stiff Gandy was not good. However, part of the outstanding D performance (weak competition or not we beat them and the D controlled them overall or at least at the critical times) was some good play by Schobel reflected in his being a team leader in many D stats on a team which sports a very good 4-1 record. Schobel has been a contributor and leader on the Bills (statwise as Kelsay actually is the captain and Schobel has shown more focus on him as an individual with his attendance at voluntary camps) for years to the extent this has been recognized with Pro Bowl berths and big contracts. However, the simple case is that he contributes in different ways than the standard has been set for Bills DEs by Bruce. Schobel can in fact stack up some outstanding sack numbers but these are almost a by-product of his high motor style rather than him being the type of player with a series of outstanding first moves who must be accounted for on every play with a dt.
PromoTheRobot Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Schoebel does need to pick up his game, but that doesn't change the fact that Sully is a smug, negative little a$$wipe. PTR
copernicus137 Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I am. Have you ever heard that guy talk to the public? He sounds like a total prick and doesn't not have a good attitude. And apparently, he doesn't have a good reputation around the league unlike all these announcers would have you believe. I find him to be a very subtle character. In the past there's been a lot of humor there if you're willing to see it. He isn't a cookie-cutter cheer-leading media darling, and I think he's getting a bad rap because of it. I don't think of him as having a bad attitude, I think his sense of humor may actually be similar to Jauron's. It must be frustrating to be recognized by the league's players and coaches as an outstanding player, and have fans and media focus on sacks. Maybe he's a sensitive guy! As long as it affects his interviewing more than his play, I'm all for him throwing a line or two back at Sullivan.
monkey3 Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Erik Flowers???? If trent does not make it back for the San Diego game I will beat my dog and put him in the dryer
devldog131 Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I must be wrong then. He is the best DE since Jesus Christ I never said that, I just stated my billief that he is oned of the biggest contributors on this defense, even when he isn't racking up Bruuuuuuuuuce-like sack numbers.
SageAgainstTheMachine Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I think it has boiled down to this. Schobel has been excellent against the rush and deficient against the pass. Anybody disagree? There are two facets to defense and for some reason people only pay attention to the pass rush when it comes to DE's. The opposite, i think, can be said for the way people look at DT's.
Steely Dan Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Schobel is second on the team in tackles with 32, is tied for second on the team for tackles for loss, is second on the team in quarterback pressures and is tied for second on the team in quarterback hits. No other player ranks in the top two in as many defensive categories as Schobel... Yeah, he's not doing anything... /sarcasm I agree the talk is stupid. Is Schobel the new twobillsdrive whipping boy now or something? The sacks will come. Schobel has done plenty this year and has come really close to some sacks and strips. But then again some people will tell you that Ellis needs to start. ************************************************* Here's part of a conversation I had with murra in this thread. Yes, thats exactly how I am. Too bad you were wrong about Schobel, otherwise it might have been your first good post that I've read. As for ripping on Chris Ellis...really? You realize he's the third round future of the DL right now. He's not getting looks because of the contracts to Schobel and Kelsay and it will remain that way the remainder of the season, but to sarcastically say that he's not playing because he's not good is (oh no, insult pending...) ignorant. That is one of the stupidest things I've read here. Why is Greer starting over McKelvin? McKelvin makes more money than him. Why isn't JP starting over Edwards he makes more than Edwards. Why is Kyle Williams starting over McCargo? McCargo makes more money. Believe me Ralph wants to win and so does Jauron. The starters are based on talent not contracts. ******************************************************* Schobel is a douche bag. He needs to take a look at the Titans or Giants to see what real DE's look like. Then please try to add something of substance and value to the conversation. "Schobel is a douche bag" has to be one of the most low brow things I have read on this board in recent memory. If you have a difference of opinion with something that is said, make a statement that doesn't include words like "douche bag" and back it up with something factual. Good advice for anyone who does that regularly. I'm not talking about you devldog. I am. Have you ever heard that guy talk to the public? He sounds like a total prick and doesn't not have a good attitude. And apparently, he doesn't have a good reputation around the league unlike all these announcers would have you believe. And you know this how? I like Schobel. He's a high motored guy, usually pretty good against the run, and when he's hot, he's hot. Last year, him and Kelsay played almost every snap of the first eight games because we didn't have any backups. His stats were low for a reason. And just because he isn't getting sacks doesn't necessarily mean he's not getting pressure. That being said, I don't think I would put Schobel up there in the top 5 DE category; I don't know if you could put him in the top 7. The top guys consistently get pressure on the quarterback game in and game out. With Schobel, it is a lot of streakiness in his game. I consider him more of a Phil Hansen guy, but obviously better. I've been saying for years that I think the Bills need that crazy, big and nasty compliment to Schobel that terrorizes quarterbacks and allows him to not be doubleteamed. Granted, you have to give a lot of credit to the guy for being the only name on that line the last couple of years. My other criticism of Schobel is leadership. There's a reason why Chris Kelsay is a captain and Schobel is not. You can pass it off that Schobel is a soft spoken guy, but you expect the guy that was the highest paid player on your team (that goes to Lee now) to at least take some sort of leadership role. I've never once (correct me if I'm wrong) heard Schobel shoulder any blame in one game over the past eight years. What I do hear is jaded talk and a defensive attitude about his play. I'm not quite sold on the fact that the other players on the defense like the guy too much. I think sometimes he can take a petulant childish attitude towards the game. I'm not sold on the fact that he wants to be in Buffalo either (other than the fact that he's making 7 mil a year (who would turn that down). He's seen so many tough years, I wouldn't blame the guy. I wouldn't be suprised that when the two sides do (if they do) part ways, Schobel might take some cheap shots out the door (a la Miro Satan). He renegotiated his contract to stay here when he could have probably gotten more money elsewhere. :lol: Wow, and here I thought he played linebacker for the Patriots No, coach. However, in general I think Schobel is a victim for many fans of Bruce Smith disease such that as a highly paid player at DE fans are going to measure his performance by the showy stat of sacks and other contributions will be ignored. Exactly, every DE the Bills have will always be compared to the greatest DE to play the game. Get over it people. The next greatest DE in the NFL probably won't be a Bill. There are too many teams that will picking ahead of the Bills. Smith was the #1 pick in his draft.
Steely Dan Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Erik Flowers???? f trent does not make it back for the San Diego game I will beat my dog and put him in the dryer Sort of like this only with dog instead?
John from Riverside Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I would like to know just how hurt Schrobel is...... Right now I can personally relate to him. He is a undersized DE who faces LT's that outweight him by a bunch so they are going to be stronger. Depending on the injury his main weapon against these behemoths might be taken away right now. My own son (high school) is also a undersized DE who faces LT's that outweight him by at least 50 pounds every friday night.....and he has been battling a high groin strain and now a mcl sprain. These take away what he can do on the field.
MaineMoxie Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Jerry Sullivan seems to be a very negative person. I agree completely. While I'm not defending Schobel, I've always thought Sullivan was overly negative. About 18-20 years ago or so he served as a "celebrity" judge in a slam dunk contest at my high school. I seem to recall it was some sort of charity event or something. Anyway, because it was supposed to be all in good fun, all the other judges were giving out scores between 7.5 and 10 or something like that. Sullivan gave out a 3.5 to some poor guy. Ever since then I've always thought of him as a bit of a jerk.
Lori Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Jerry Sullivan seems to be a very negative person. No one is asking him to be a cheerleader, but after reading most of his columns, you want to go shoot yourself, his writing is so very bitter. Seems he has a great deal of difficulty finding positives in situations. .. A lifetime in doing-nothing/going-nowhere WNY will do that to you, I guess... That's his job, he's paid to be a cynic. That's almost exactly what Jerry said a few years back on one of his GR appearances: "Tom Donahoe gets paid to run the Bills. I get paid to be his biggest critic." And since I haven't yet seen the source of Schobel's current displeasure linked here ... Yesterday's column ... The pass rush: The Bills had five sacks in the opening game against Seattle. They’ve had five sacks in the four games since. The Jets were all over Kurt Warner and forced him to turn the ball over six times. The Bills didn’t get a sniff. It’s the same sad refrain. Even with Marcus Stroud, the front four isn’t getting enough pressure on its own. Aaron Schobel and Chris Kelsay are being paid big money to make plays. It’s about time it happened. Schobel has one sack. I’m sure he’d tell us sack stats are overrated. ... and this morning's blog post: Well, Aaron Schobel didn't let me down. In Tuesday's newspaper, I said Schobel would probably tell us sacks are overrated. That day, in one of his rare -- and typically self-serving -- interviews with the local media, Schobel did just that. It was about as predictable as some of the guy's rush moves. "I play 1,000 plays in a year and you all judge me on five or 10," Schobel said. Gee, I wonder if Schobel and his agent took that approach when they negotiated that $50 million contract with the Bills in the summer of 2007. Do you think they laid out all his thousands of plays and told Bills management, "Let's not make too much of his sack total?" I'm guessing they pointed to his career-high sack total from 2006 and demanded he get the money that comes along with it. I can't imagine they used the Bills' sorry 2005-06 run defense, or the team's losing record, to justify that deal.
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Schobel is second on the team in tackles with 32, is tied for second on the team for tackles for loss, is second on the team in quarterback pressures and is tied for second on the team in quarterback hits. No other player ranks in the top two in as many defensive categories as Schobel... Isn't that kind of like bragging that you're the richest person in the Sudan?
PastaJoe Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Isn't that kind of like bragging that you're the richest person in the Sudan? No, it's like bragging that you're the second richest person in the Sudan.
TheLynchTrain Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Steely Dan you seem to LOVE to take things out of context. In my entire post, I wrote how I believe Schobel is a good Defensive End, and that what he does for this team is more than just the stupid measure of sacks. Moving on from that, I mentioned that who in their right mind wouldn't take 7 mil a year. He might (emphasis on MIGHT) been offered more on the open market, but I can't imagine much more than 7 mil a year. It was right in front of him, a long term contract, and I'm sure he preferred the insurance of having the money than playing out his contract and risking injury before free agency (or having a poor statistical season). I don't see how you could say (or guess) how Schobel took less money in this situation to stay in Buffalo. What I was saying in my post before you totally FRAMED my argument (must be election season) is that I don't think he is happy to be in Buffalo. I think it came down to money, and he would probably have been happier to leave. I feel that if the relationship ends with Schobel early, he might take cheap shots on the Buffalo organization out the door, a la Miro Satan. But of course, it seems that having a discussion with you is like talking to a brick wall.
drnykterstein Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I believe Sullivan, just like the rest of us, know Schobel hasn't done anything this year. It's debatable. I'd definately say it is an incorrect statement to say he's done nothing. He's done a lot. Whether he's living up to his contract or not is another issue.
Steely Dan Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 That's his job, he's paid to be a cynic. That's almost exactly what Jerry said a few years back on one of his GR appearances: "Tom Donahoe gets paid to run the Bills. I get paid to be his biggest critic." And since I haven't yet seen the source of Schobel's current displeasure linked here ... Yesterday's column ... ... and this morning's blog post: Yep, that's probably a big part of it. Steely Dan you seem to LOVE to take things out of context. In my entire post, I wrote how I believe Schobel is a good Defensive End, and that what he does for this team is more than just the stupid measure of sacks. Moving on from that, I mentioned that who in their right mind wouldn't take 7 mil a year. He might (emphasis on MIGHT) been offered more on the open market, but I can't imagine much more than 7 mil a year. It was right in front of him, a long term contract, and I'm sure he preferred the insurance of having the money than playing out his contract and risking injury before free agency (or having a poor statistical season). I don't see how you could say (or guess) how Schobel took less money in this situation to stay in Buffalo. What I was saying in my post before you totally FRAMED my argument (must be election season) is that I don't think he is happy to be in Buffalo. I think it came down to money, and he would probably have been happier to leave. I feel that if the relationship ends with Schobel early, he might take cheap shots on the Buffalo organization out the door, a la Miro Satan. But of course, it seems that having a discussion with you is like talking to a brick wall. Let's take Schobel's own words. I know your'e gonna say: "What do you expect him to say?" If you feel like that then I can't prove any player wants to play for Buffalo. What's your evidence he doesn't want to play in Buffalo? Linkage "Obviously, I had three years left on my deal so they didn't have to do anything ... so it's good: It's good for both of us," Schobel said after the Bills 28-17 preseason loss to Tennessee. "I like it here. This is my kind of style. I'm a small-town guy. I like the organization, I like the fans." ____________________________________ "We're trying to keep our good players, and one of the ways you do that is you go to them early and work out deals in order to keep your own," Bills vice president Jim Overdorf said. "Hopefully, Aaron finishes his career as a Buffalo Bill. That was one of his objectives in this, too." I guess you know more than Overdorf. Do you remember Willis McGahee? How'd he get out of Buffalo? Sorry to say, but I'll take Schobels and Overdorf's own words over your theory.
JimmyPage Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Schobel.....he was talking about his lack of production according to the media...said something like....."You can tell that to Sullivan" I was really suprised hearing schobel. He sounded like a moron.
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