Chilly Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 the main reason I'm against universal health care is because it WILL take funds from true public health programs Interesting take. One reason why I'm for universal health care (despite my semi-libertarian leanings) is because I think its important for everyone to have access to a doctor. To me, everyone being able to see a doctor seems like a good first step toward the preventative care that the whole country needs. Do you think these other programs do more for that sort of care than UHC would?
Max Fischer Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 You mean, the argument that health and health care are synonymous? That was your argument, buckwheat. It's easier discussing physics with a two year old then have a rational argument with a pseudo-intellectual.
Chef Jim Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Interesting take. One reason why I'm for universal health care (despite my semi-libertarian leanings) is because I think its important for everyone to have access to a doctor. To me, everyone being able to see a doctor seems like a good first step toward the preventative care that the whole country needs. Do you think these other programs do more for that sort of care than UHC would? If everyone that saw a doctor had to pay nothing for the services do you think there would be more fraud in the industry. I'm seeing it first hand right now with my chiropractor.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I think this group said he won. Not the guy on the lower right. I think the poll of people watching FOX and texting in will probably say McCain would win. Probably 90-10.
Bishop Hedd Posted October 8, 2008 Author Posted October 8, 2008 Fox News just declared McCain the winner of the debate & MSNBC just declared Obama the winner of the debate. Fox group of independent voters says McCain won, CNN's group of independent voters say Obama won. No need to watch the post debate coverage on any of these channels.You actually watched it? As Keith Relf once warbled mr yer a better man than I.
Booster4324 Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Didn't say it wasn't important. Said it wasn't synonymous with health. And it isn't. The difference between health and health care is the difference between walking a mile a day versus taking Xenical. Until people realize that "universal health care" isn't synonymous with "public health" (the main reason I'm against universal health care is because it WILL take funds from true public health programs), and neither is synonymous with "health", the American health system will remain as screwed up as it is now. That is a valid point, the difference between health and health care. I was not arguing that. You seemed like you were taking it to extremes though and may still be. You are a great stats guy, how many people fall on the extremes of that spectrum?
GG Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Ironic that this is the first thing I read after getting back from the ER with my wife. On a slightly different subject...I just got back from the ER with my wife (torn ligament in her knee). Missed the debate. Can some rational people - say...X. Benedict, Blue Fire, GG, and John Adams - give me a run-down? Didn't watch it. Decided to have a nice Italian dinner with the Mrs, instead. Caught the closing statements - I thought McCain did a good impersonation of Michael J Fox at the end. Looked a bit bizarre. I know it was the camera angle, but didn't help his cause.
Max Fischer Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Well, looks like McCain won the debate. The Fox News "text" poll has McCain winning 86% to 14%. Bad news for Obama, he's not getting Fox viewers.
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Didn't say it wasn't important. Said it wasn't synonymous with health. And it isn't. The difference between health and health care is the difference between walking a mile a day versus taking Xenical. Until people realize that "universal health care" isn't synonymous with "public health" (the main reason I'm against universal health care is because it WILL take funds from true public health programs), and neither is synonymous with "health", the American health system will remain as screwed up as it is now. This debate is interesting, like a pursuit of happiness, what about access to health care? It was instituted in Massachusetts by former Governor Mitt Romney and though it has had some short term glitches, it seems to be working okay. It is not transferable outside of Mass and I am not sure of the overall costs, but Emergency room visits have gone way down, and if you receive a paycheck, the fee is automatically deducted for it if you employer does not provide it. There is catastrophic crop insurance required if you are going to participate in any ag subsidy. Both are bare bone coverages and the healthcare insurance seems to help out the young and old better??? Not sure how it is going right now with the econ. downturn? I am mixed because the insurance companies are the most profitable companies in the US and yet they are still a middle man. Their fees for this service have gotten outrageous, but government run services here wouldn't work either. Medicare negotiating fees for drugs and doctors services seems like a good idea, but I don't think a national system would work. I don't think employer benefits should be taxed.
Bishop Hedd Posted October 8, 2008 Author Posted October 8, 2008 It's easier discussing physics with a two year old then have a rational argument with a pseudo-intellectual.Score one debate point for the Max Fischer players!
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 If everyone that saw a doctor had to pay nothing for the services do you think there would be more fraud in the industry. I'm seeing it first hand right now with my chiropractor. I agree, but the fee should be limited. How you cover the difference either with insurance or regulated tiered fee, I don't know, but I believe that everyone should have access.
Booster4324 Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Score one debate point for the Max Fischer players! Only a pu$$y (reference to your avatar) would consider a full retreat a victory.
Kelly the Dog Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Fox group of independent voters says McCain won, Actually, they didn't. Many more said that Obama won. Brit Hume didnt look happy. Then Frank Luntz said more people there thought McCain won on economic issues. Hume tried to play that up like it would help McCain and Luntz asked the group live if McCain won the economic issues, but only 7-8 or so of the 20 or so raised their hand, so Luntz called it a tie.
IDBillzFan Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I decided to leave my opinion in the hands of the CNN analysts that rated the debate on the left and right of the screen. First, I have to agree with the first analyst who awarded Obama two points before he did anything beyond stand up. That was right on. I never saw anyone stand up better than Obama. Conversely, McCain clearly deserved three demerits from another analyst when he stood up. Obama kicked McCain's assss in the standing up category. Meanwhile, I thorougly enjoyed the pulse of the nation meter in the middle. It's pretty clear that women think Obama is hot and men think he's worthless, but as Clinton showed us, nothing is more important than the female vote. Most importantly, it was a huge help for CNN to show the Hot Pocket nation how they should think without having to listen to anything. That was genius. I give CNN 8 points for hosting the debate and 157 demerits for thinking their opinion is more important than letting people think for themselves. Go Obama/Biden in '08. Any country that can piss and moan about how !@#$ed up the government is in handling the economy but is sure that the government can bring you good health care deserves Obama/Biden. Plus, if America is stupid enough to blame McCain for the economy, which is exactly what it's doing, they deserve you. I simply and purely can not WAIT for the Obama/Biden administration.
Chilly Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 lol, CNN was embarassing, wasn't it? Thank god for PBS.
Chef Jim Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 lol, CNN was embarassing, wasn't it? Thank god for PBS. Thank god for YouPorn.
taterhill Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I would agree with that if you mean that we educate people on how to keep themselves healthy. Say explain that eating a lean cut of chicken that is blackened with it's own grease and pepper, a buttload of black beans, corn, and green beans (trying to go texas style) beats the hell out of a Big Mac and fries. That would be a start health wise. Adding some grapes for desert wouldn't hurt. Do some classes to explain this, it would probably be cheaper than the alternative. Redefine what food stamps can be spent on maybe? This is what I have....Aqua Health Ins This is the direction we need to go....
Max Fischer Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Only a pu$$y (reference to your avatar) would consider a full retreat a victory. Sorry, I didn't know you had reading comprehension problems. Not sure why you don't think we should find a way to provide healthcare as if it was a right. Don't you think public education is a right?
Chilly Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Thank god for YouPorn. And pornotube, and Xtube, and Redtube, and....
Chef Jim Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 This is what I have....Aqua Health Ins This is the direction we need to go.... So if you're sick they just drown you in a bucket of water? I can dig that.
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