There is more to this loss then people want to see

[Poeticlaw]

Ok Jp is the scape goat because every one wante to see him fail. Lets blame the 5 sacks and 2 turnovers because he likes to hold on to the ball too much. But what were his stats? 15/21 220 1 td and 1 int he completed 71% of his passes is that some one who lost the game for us not completely maybe it was his 5 sacks or his inability to hold on the the ball when he got sacked causing 2 fumbles. So maybe tha t was it. Yes when the game was on the line JP crumbled that seems to be his shortcoming and the one of the 2 differences between Trent and JP because letes face it in STl Trent was 15/25 197 1 td 1 int and 4 sacks no fumbles. So Trent can hold on to the ball when being sacked and is much cooler under pressure. So the debate is over Tren is the better leader for this offense. I dont blame the QB as much as I do the coaches. We need to stop playing not to lose and play to win.

 

Does anyone realize that we are paying 9 mil + a year to a reciever that is catching the ball 3.2 times a game yes he has huge catches when it comes his way but 9 + mil to only catch 3.2 time a game is way too much money. That tells me that we dont have much of an offense. The conservative approach isnrt going to win games we need to win. I knew Arizona would have been our first test and we failed. San diego is our next test. I watched Miami beat them and Miami looked alot better than we did. The Jets offense must be as good as arizona because they were able to win the shootout. NE didnt look much better but still escaped with a win in SF... This division is up for grabs and we are not the best ones in it by far. I hope Jauron can make the nice bye wek adjustments he has made in the past because we have several areas that need to be fixed and one by far is our star WR making 9 mil + a year should be making an avg of 6.25 catches per game he cant just be the deep threat guy he has to be the goto guy on 3rd down and make the catches to move the chains.

 

Finally I said it before Jauron has not figure out how to stop the opposing team from Blitzing we have been blitz since the OAK game STL copied it and ARI we have to show teams we will beat you on the BLitz or the rest of the season will go sour quickly.

 

I just wanted to air those things out and if share the opinon great if not we are entitled to our own view and perceptions. I do agree that JP is not a fit for this offense. I do disagree he is not starter worthy in the right offensive system. I do agree JP crumbles under Pressure so did Drew Bledsoe. the mentalty there is to make the big play instead of making plays that put your team in the position to win. I dont believe our defense is this bad I believe the coaching philosphy against certain teams is a mistake you have to go into win the game not play the game not to lose but lose anyway.

 

I am not spell checking so i apologize for any mistyped/misspelled words.

[destro32]

i guess we are doomed then.... Season over!!!

 

[stuckincincy]

Finally I said it before Jauron has not figure out how to stop the opposing team from Blitzing we have been blitz since the OAK game STL copied it and ARI we have to show teams we will beat you on the BLitz or the rest of the season will go sour quickly.

 

Going with that - someone posted a topic about the dearth of screen passes just last week.

 

So many OCs' go with their scripted play selections regardless - I'm surprised that more decent HCs' don't send somebody up to the booth to rip their clipboard off off them and smack them with it.

[stevewin]

I do disagree he is not starter worthy in the right offensive system. I do agree JP crumbles under Pressure so did Drew Bledsoe. the mentalty there is to make the big play instead of making plays that put your team in the position to win.

So explain exactly where the "right offensive system" in the league is for JP, in which a QB who (your words) "crumbles under pressure" is such a good fit?

[Beerball]

Ok Jp is the scape goat because every one wante to see him fail. Lets blame the 5 sacks and 2 turnovers because he likes to hold on to the ball too much. But what were his stats? 15/21 220 1 td and 1 int he completed 71% of his passes is that some one who lost the game for us not completely maybe it was his 5 sacks or his inability to hold on the the ball when he got sacked causing 2 fumbles. So maybe tha t was it. Yes when the game was on the line JP crumbled that seems to be his shortcoming and the one of the 2 differences between Trent and JP because letes face it in STl Trent was 15/25 197 1 td 1 int and 4 sacks no fumbles. So Trent can hold on to the ball when being sacked and is much cooler under pressure. So the debate is over Tren is the better leader for this offense. I dont blame the QB as much as I do the coaches. We need to stop playing not to lose and play to win.

 

Does anyone realize that we are paying 9 mil + a year to a reciever that is catching the ball 3.2 times a game yes he has huge catches when it comes his way but 9 + mil to only catch 3.2 time a game is way too much money. That tells me that we dont have much of an offense. The conservative approach isnrt going to win games we need to win. I knew Arizona would have been our first test and we failed. San diego is our next test. I watched Miami beat them and Miami looked alot better than we did. The Jets offense must be as good as arizona because they were able to win the shootout. NE didnt look much better but still escaped with a win in SF... This division is up for grabs and we are not the best ones in it by far. I hope Jauron can make the nice bye wek adjustments he has made in the past because we have several areas that need to be fixed and one by far is our star WR making 9 mil + a year should be making an avg of 6.25 catches per game he cant just be the deep threat guy he has to be the goto guy on 3rd down and make the catches to move the chains.

 

Finally I said it before Jauron has not figure out how to stop the opposing team from Blitzing we have been blitz since the OAK game STL copied it and ARI we have to show teams we will beat you on the BLitz or the rest of the season will go sour quickly.

 

I just wanted to air those things out and if share the opinon great if not we are entitled to our own view and perceptions. I do agree that JP is not a fit for this offense. I do disagree he is not starter worthy in the right offensive system. I do agree JP crumbles under Pressure so did Drew Bledsoe. the mentalty there is to make the big play instead of making plays that put your team in the position to win. I dont believe our defense is this bad I believe the coaching philosphy against certain teams is a mistake you have to go into win the game not play the game not to lose but lose anyway.

 

I am not spell checking so i apologize for any mistyped/misspelled words.

scapegoat is one word It's a good word, but one.

[keepthefaith]

So explain exactly where the "right offensive system" in the league is for JP, in which a QB who (your words) "crumbles under pressure" is such a good fit?

 

As painful as it was, I watched every one of what people on this board would call "bad plays" by JP again last night. All in slow motion. He had a couple of stinkers, but had Trent been in the game to the end, he would been drilled to the turf more than a couple times as well. Any QB would have. Trent in each of his games this year has had ugly plays. All QBs do. Give the Cardinals some credit, line stunts and mismatches in pass protection (like asking Fred Jackson to block a big rusher coming up the middle) resulted in sacks. The defense's inability to stop the Cardinals took away any running game the Bills might have preferred to use. The Bills were badly outplayed yesterday on both sides of the ball. Heck, it even looked like Mike Gandy handled Aaron Schobel pretty well yesterday. Who would have thought that at game time yesterday?

[Fan in San Diego]

I agree we need to get the ball to Evans more. Like TO, throw him the ball 20 times a game. Have him running every route there is, not just the deep post pattern.

[apuszczalowski]

I agree we need to get the ball to Evans more. Like TO, throw him the ball 20 times a game. Have him running every route there is, not just the deep post pattern.

So make him earn his new paycheck? Not just make him a one trick pony? I'm not against that

[cale]

As painful as it was, I watched every one of what people on this board would call "bad plays" by JP again last night. All in slow motion. He had a couple of stinkers, but had Trent been in the game to the end, he would been drilled to the turf more than a couple times as well. Any QB would have. Trent in each of his games this year has had ugly plays. All QBs do. Give the Cardinals some credit, line stunts and mismatches in pass protection (like asking Fred Jackson to block a big rusher coming up the middle) resulted in sacks. The defense's inability to stop the Cardinals took away any running game the Bills might have preferred to use. The Bills were badly outplayed yesterday on both sides of the ball. Heck, it even looked like Mike Gandy handled Aaron Schobel pretty well yesterday. Who would have thought that at game time yesterday?

 

I want to be fair in this discussion. Like all teams we have strong points and weak points. But to some degree we have been living on borrowed time on the offensive side of the ball. You can't sleep walk for 3 quarters and "believe" you'll pull it out in the 4th quarter.

 

To a large extent, that's on the O line. I think they have been atrocious this year in their ability to run block. That left side should be annihilating defenses. Our middle is so damn soft. Fowler keeps being blown back and the other two guards overcompensate. Lynch has to gain yards mostly by himself when he goes up the middle. The way the line plays now, Jackson is the better RB for this team. He as an ability to be slippery and making his "footprint" small.

 

Also having a pass rusher come at your QB unblocked is just plain inexcusable. A back should at least be chipping him. I have no idea why our blocking scheme didn't pick up the safety.

 

Most of our ills this year are either directly or indirectly a result of Oline play. I don't even want to get into the whole Jason Peters thing - though I think he had a relatively good game yesterday.

 

Only yesterday did I see how much having Edwards back there helped compensate for our shortcomings. I thought JP played well - but he is too excitable and overly emotional to calm a team down when their backs are against the wall.

 

Finally, our receivers seem incapable of making themselves available as targets when the chips are down. I like Josh Reed's play this season in that respect - but Hardy's development had better accelerate. I don't know why Steve Johnson isn't on the field. He has great hands. Maybe his route running is suspect.

 

I think our run offense is great when we have some good blocking. Our WRs can make plays when the QB has more than 2.5 seconds to make a throw. Our TEs just make up the numbers. I had high hopes for Schouman but he has been hopeless so far. Royal is just a locker room lawyer. He's not Witten. Not even close.

 

As for the defense, pass rush has been a problem all along this year, but it was mitigated by us playing impotent offenses for the most part. Not getting to the quarterback is gonna hurt us unless Schobel steps us consistently.

 

Stroud is double teamed all the time, so I have no idea what Schobel's excuse is. He was being owned by Gandy yesterday for Cr**sake.

 

I have belief in Jauron, Schonert and Fewell - but somebody had better light a fire under both of our lines. There's too much talent there for them to be mediocre.

 

Thank God for our kicking game. It always is gonna give us a chance. I also want to see more Youbouty than McKelvin in the secondary. Dude's a player.

 

We have a good history of fixing stuff during the bye, hopefully that holds true for us again. Sure we're 4-1 but the next 5 games are so are gonna be brutal. And in our conference...

 

C

[Dan]

I agree we need to get the ball to Evans more. Like TO, throw him the ball 20 times a game. Have him running every route there is, not just the deep post pattern.

Wasn't there major criticism when JP supposedly used to lock onto Evans and made our offense too predictable. Now that we're spreading the ball around more (or at least attempting to), we're criticizing because we're not looking to Evans for every pass.

[Stenbar]

The inablilty to run the football is the biggest reason this team will fail...A solid running game keeps your defense off the field and sets up the playaction pass which in turns defeats the blitz because they dont do it..Until our team learns to run the football we are gonna be an imposter

[profile]

The inablilty to run the football is the biggest reason this team will fail...A solid running game keeps your defense off the field and sets up the playaction pass which in turns defeats the blitz because they dont do it..Until our team learns to run the football we are gonna be an imposter

 

 

there is much truth to that statement... we have yet to see a game where Lynch has had lanes to run through, never mind the fact we have a saloon door at left tackle right now. I'm not surprised at this game's outcome considering how poorly the offense looked in st louis.

 

I truly hope they get the O-line fixed in time.

[billnutinphoenix]

Come on...I was there at the game and JP had adequate time...our OL pass blocking was adequate but our receivers weren't getting open..trust me - I was sitting in the nosebleeds, I could see that!

[rastabillz]

So explain exactly where the "right offensive system" in the league is for JP, in which a QB who (your words) "crumbles under pressure" is such a good fit?

Detroit?

[FLFan]

A few points to the discussion:

 

- I was always a JP supporter, however, yesterday's performance by JP combbined with TE's outstanding play YTD should put this silly debate to bed once and for all. JP was certainly not the sole reason we lost, but he was terrible. Three turnovers, holding on to the ball way to long, poor judgement - we got the whole package. I am really disappointed that he could not play in a relief role and get the job done.

- This game was about turnovers. The Bills had 4 turnovers leading to 24 points. Whe you put your defense on the field for 2/3 of the game because you can not hang on to the ball, this is what happens. Everything else is secondary. We have no idea what would have transpoired absent the turnovers, but it certainly would have been a closer game.

- The Bills are not as good as people were making them out to be before yesterday, and not as bad as yesterday's game would indicate. This was an important learning experience. How they react as a team, and as a coaching staff, over the next 4 games will detrmine their fate, not yesterday's subpar performance.

- Like every team, the Bills have some issues. They also have some great components and great potential to be very good for a long time. Lets not over react to one bad day.

[Phil Hansen Forever]

That's all well and good, and you make some good points. However, when the camera panned the bench, everyone including the coaches looked like they just attended a funeral. Nobody had any signs of hope. When TE is playing, he embodies hope and the team responds. When Losma was playing, it looked like agony for his teammates. The players looked doomed, and had given up on themselves.

 

Lostman has a great arm, but can't count to three yet. He holds the ball way too long, and can't make a decision what to do with it if no one is open. Hey, Minnesota needs a QB...

[apuszczalowski]

A few points to the discussion:

 

- I was always a JP supporter, however, yesterday's performance by JP combbined with TE's outstanding play YTD should put this silly debate to bed once and for all. JP was certainly not the sole reason we lost, but he was terrible. Three turnovers, holding on to the ball way to long, poor judgement - we got the whole package. I am really disappointed that he could not play in a relief role and get the job done.

- This game was about turnovers. The Bills had 4 turnovers leading to 24 points. Whe you put your defense on the field for 2/3 of the game because you can not hang on to the ball, this is what happens. Everything else is secondary. We have no idea what would have transpoired absent the turnovers, but it certainly would have been a closer game.

- The Bills are not as good as people were making them out to be before yesterday, and not as bad as yesterday's game would indicate. This was an important learning experience. How they react as a team, and as a coaching staff, over the next 4 games will detrmine their fate, not yesterday's subpar performance.

- Like every team, the Bills have some issues. They also have some great components and great potential to be very good for a long time. Lets not over react to one bad day.

I would not pin that fumble on the handoff to JP, I think Lynch deserves more of the blame on that one, probably cause he caught the Cards player out of the corner of his eye directly in front of him just as he was getting the ball handed to him. AS for his other 2 turnovers, there was the fumble, and the INT after the game was already lost and he was just trying to force the ball to make a play.

 

He was hardly the reason why the Bills lost. The Bills lost because the Cards offence was having their way with the Bills defence, scoring at will and allowing the Cards to wear them out and wear the clock down. The game was going to become a shootout, and the bills offence is not built to play a shootout. The only way for the Bills to have had a chance with the way the defence was playing was to match the Cards point for point, and hope their defence could force some turnovers too. If trent has some weaknesses, I think one of them is that he is not a QB that is going to give you a great chance of winning a shootout, but neither is the Bills offence. He is a ball control QB that will win a game by controling the clock, and needs a good defensive performance to hold the opponents score down. He won't put up 50+ points in a game

[julian]

I would not pin that fumble on the handoff to JP, I think Lynch deserves more of the blame on that one, probably cause he caught the Cards player out of the corner of his eye directly in front of him just as he was getting the ball handed to him. AS for his other 2 turnovers, there was the fumble, and the INT after the game was already lost and he was just trying to force the ball to make a play.

 

He was hardly the reason why the Bills lost. The Bills lost because the Cards offence was having their way with the Bills defence, scoring at will and allowing the Cards to wear them out and wear the clock down. The game was going to become a shootout, and the bills offence is not built to play a shootout. The only way for the Bills to have had a chance with the way the defence was playing was to match the Cards point for point, and hope their defence could force some turnovers too. If trent has some weaknesses, I think one of them is that he is not a QB that is going to give you a great chance of winning a shootout, but neither is the Bills offence. He is a ball control QB that will win a game by controling the clock, and needs a good defensive performance to hold the opponents score down. He won't put up 50+ points in a game

he just needs to be a leader that whom the rest of the players believe in. He needs not 50 pts a game, but be clutch when needed, as he has already shown threw the first 4 games.

[Bmwolf21]

I would not pin that fumble on the handoff to JP, I think Lynch deserves more of the blame on that one, probably cause he caught the Cards player out of the corner of his eye directly in front of him just as he was getting the ball handed to him.

I much more inclined to pin the first fumble on Fowler's ¡Ole! blocking attempt.

[apuszczalowski]

he just needs to be a leader that whom the rest of the players believe in. He needs not 50 pts a game, but be clutch when needed, as he has already shown threw the first 4 games.

But in this last game he would have had to put up more then 40 unless Trents Poise also please defence and could stop Warner and the Cards offence.