colin Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 i would also like to see more pressure, but the thing is we don't blitz enough and our d game plan against zona was god awful. warner had the ball out of his hands in less than 2 seconds 75% of the time. they ran little underneath routes and we did a bad job tackling them. our whole d is better when attacking, we would have given up one or two big plays if we did that all game, but we would have had more turnovers and a couple sacks to keep the "cut our best players" posters at bay.
Adam Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 I have been on Schobel's case a lot, but the fact remains that our line is better than last year, but still isn't that good or deep. Schobel and Stroud are the only legit starters on it, and we don't have much depth. We don't have a game changer on the line either. We are what we are, and so far its been pretty good. We've overcome some deficiencies in starting out 4-1, but you know what- we still are 4-1 which is better than we've been in a long time, so enjoy it.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 i would also like to see more pressure, but the thing is we don't blitz enough and our d game plan against zona was god awful. warner had the ball out of his hands in less than 2 seconds 75% of the time. they ran little underneath routes and we did a bad job tackling them. our whole d is better when attacking, we would have given up one or two big plays if we did that all game, but we would have had more turnovers and a couple sacks to keep the "cut our best players" posters at bay. If the ball is out of his hands in less than 2 seconds 75% of the time, how will blitzing more help? If he's getting rid of the ball that quickly and completing passes, it means we're just not covering anyone, simple as that.
Peter Griffin Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 Good point. Ellis is kept off the field even though he's much better than Schobel.The coaching staff doesn't want to win they just want to keep the better guys on the bench and lose with the less effective players. Tricky Dicky likes to play veterans over rookies, yeah definitely. Definitely veterans....no chance of fumbling the game away or having a stupid penalty with a veteran. Yeah definitely...... Remember the months of suffering through the awful A-Train even though every Bills fan knew what we had in Fred Jackson from watching him in preseason?
Bill from NYC Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 If the ball is out of his hands in less than 2 seconds 75% of the time, how will blitzing more help? If he's getting rid of the ball that quickly and completing passes, it means we're just not covering anyone, simple as that. Pressure up the middle helps against those short plays. Stroud is very good, but we need more at the defensive tackle position. AKC (and off all people Kelsay during an interview) convinced me that it really is the most important position of defense. Seeing is believing. We would not be 4-1 without Stroud, in my very strong opinion.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 Pressure up the middle helps against those short plays. Stroud is very good, but we need more at the defensive tackle position. AKC (and off all people Kelsay during an interview) convinced me that it really is the most important position of defense. Seeing is believing. We would not be 4-1 without Stroud, in my very strong opinion. Completely agree. We need to be able to generate a rush with our front four, as opposed to blitzing all the time. If it means a 1st round D-lineman, then so be it. Nothing is more pivotal imo.
TrentLeeLynch Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 Remember how Aaron was wearing a mic the first week against SEA. He was saying to Kawika he didnt "move like i used to" and Kawika says "shut up" and Aaron is like "hey im trying to deal with it myself." Well im not saying this is why but its something to consider in this debate. Aaron's game is built around speed, not a plethora of moves or strength. So if hes getting older I would think hes losing speed. Perhaps this is why he dropped nearly 20 pounds 2 years ago. He knew im losing speed so if i lose weight mayb i can maintain some of that speed.
murra Posted October 7, 2008 Posted October 7, 2008 Tricky Dicky likes to play veterans over rookies, yeah definitely. Definitely veterans....no chance of fumbling the game away or having a stupid penalty with a veteran. Yeah definitely...... Remember the months of suffering through the awful A-Train even though every Bills fan knew what we had in Fred Jackson from watching him in preseason? Couldn't agree more. I wasn't on the boards when A-Train had his start last year, but I remember how pissed I was. Remember how Aaron was wearing a mic the first week against SEA. He was saying to Kawika he didnt "move like i used to" and Kawika says "shut up" and Aaron is like "hey im trying to deal with it myself." Well im not saying this is why but its something to consider in this debate. Aaron's game is built around speed, not a plethora of moves or strength. So if hes getting older I would think hes losing speed. Perhaps this is why he dropped nearly 20 pounds 2 years ago. He knew im losing speed so if i lose weight mayb i can maintain some of that speed. Yes...lets not detract from the valid point that, like all humans and animals alike, Aaron Schobel is getting older.
offsides#76FredSmerlas Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I 100% agree with you on Schobel. Ever since we have gone to the Tampa-2 defense he has been a below average DE. I think he needs to regain his weight he lost because at LB weight he is simply getting man handled and pushed around. You got to know that the Bills see his play on film after every game and if his poor play continues he'll be looking for a new job soon. I'd love to see Ellis in there; he can't do no worse...
ChasBB Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I 100% agree with you on Schobel. Ever since we have gone to the Tampa-2 defense he has been a below average DE. I think he needs to regain his weight he lost because at LB weight he is simply getting man handled and pushed around. You got to know that the Bills see his play on film after every game and if his poor play continues he'll be looking for a new job soon. I'd love to see Ellis in there; he can't do no worse... If his weight is down and he has a bum foot, then sit him down for 3 or 4 games so he can get himself healthy and get his weight right in order to regain his competitive edge. In the meantime, put Ellis in there and see what happens. I don't see how it could be much worse than it is now because Schobel is just getting pushed around to the point where his experience is not enough to offset what he is lacking physically.
2020 Our Year For Sure Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 If his weight is down and he has a bum foot, then sit him down for 3 or 4 games so he can get himself healthy and get his weight right in order to regain his competitive edge. In the meantime, put Ellis in there and see what happens. I don't see how it could be much worse than it is now because Schobel is just getting pushed around to the point where his experience is not enough to offset what he is lacking physically. As Simon points out, he's among the league leaders in solo tackles by defensive linemen. Clearly he's doing a good job against the run. We certainly do need to find a pass rush, but to say it can't get any worse is completely off base. It can get much worse. Schobel is a good all-around player, and while the aspect of his game thats missing right now is an important one, he still does other things well. We don't know what we would get from a 3rd round rookie, and the possibility exists that he'd be a liability if left to man the position on his own. I agree that we need to get a look at Ellis. If Schobel, Kelsay and Denney are completely unable to generate pressure, then its time to explore all possibilities, and that means dressing Ellis and giving him some snaps. Bobby April will have to live with one less special teamer on gameday...sorry, Copeland. Ellis should play, but it should be on a rotational/situational basis at this point.
TheChimp Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Anyone mentioning Schobel's nasty foot injury in this thread yet? Just wondering if in our criticisms we are remembering he's been playing hurt.
JStranger76 Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 That's right Big Bad Boone, I'd like to see what Ellis can do, but at the expense of Copeland Bryan not Schobel.
ChasBB Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 As Simon points out, he's among the league leaders in solo tackles by defensive linemen. Clearly he's doing a good job against the run. We certainly do need to find a pass rush, but to say it can't get any worse is completely off base. It can get much worse. Schobel is a good all-around player, and while the aspect of his game thats missing right now is an important one, he still does other things well. We don't know what we would get from a 3rd round rookie, and the possibility exists that he'd be a liability if left to man the position on his own. I agree that we need to get a look at Ellis. If Schobel, Kelsay and Denney are completely unable to generate pressure, then its time to explore all possibilities, and that means dressing Ellis and giving him some snaps. Bobby April will have to live with one less special teamer on gameday...sorry, Copeland. Ellis should play, but it should be on a rotational/situational basis at this point. Agree, saying it can't get worse was an overstatement on my part. However, as you say, some sort of rotational situation would at least be in order at this point.
LabattBlue Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Anyone mentioning Schobel's nasty foot injury in this thread yet? Just wondering if in our criticisms we are remembering he's been playing hurt. How "nasty" was the injury since he played most of the game? If your hurt don't play and if you are healthy enough to play and your play was subpar, don't use the "nasty" injury as an excuse. Bottom line, Schobel isn't getting the job done(even after they brought in the DT that was going to allow Schobel to run wild). I don't care how many passes he defensed(as was brought up earlier this week) or how many tackles he made downfield. Hold your position at the line of scrimmage and allow the LBers to shoot the gaps and make some tackles on running plays and somehow come up with another pass rush move other than orbiting the earth in order to get to the QB.
8-8 Forever? Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 Some Bills fans are so stupid that maybe Jauron should hold out of games guys that are playing hurt, because Bills fans think that if your on the field you are by definition 100%... ever go to work when you are sick? It's kind of like that... Schobel, Stroud were "game day decisions" that means they were very borderline to even play in the game. Give Schobel a hell of a lot of credit for performing as well as he did on an injured foot... you morons.
devldog131 Posted October 8, 2008 Posted October 8, 2008 I posted this in another thread, I guess it applies here as well: "Schobel is second on the team in tackles with 32, is tied for second on the team for tackles for loss, is second on the team in quarterback pressures and is tied for second on the team in quarterback hits. No other player ranks in the top two in as many defensive categories as Schobel... Yeah, he's not doing anything... /sarcasm"
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