When did Schobel turn into just another guy?

[Steely Dan]

Chris Ellis.

 

Good point. Ellis is kept off the field even though he's much better than Schobel.The coaching staff doesn't want to win they just want to keep the better guys on the bench and lose with the less effective players.

[Pyrite Gal]

Its been a while since Schobel has displayed the skills that sent him to the pro-bowl, and I can't seem to remember when he turned into a guy that is easily handled by potentially a bottom 5 LT in the NFL...

 

So when did Schobel lose his ability to get to the QB? Exactly what has he lost? His explosive first step? His ability to close on the QB after being pushed outside? It is clear something is missing from his game that he used to have....

 

It is frustrating to watch him being blocked by a guy who got the nickname "Turnstile" when he played here...he should have gotten to Warner at least 3 to 4 times today---and he didn't even come close....

 

Is it time to move on and potentially cut him this offseason? I know the cap hit would be pretty big, but IMHO it is better to take the hit than to keep paying the guy top 10 DE money when he clearly is not the same player they gave the money to....

I do not think it is so much that Schobel has suddenly gotten bad (that is not knowing for sure whether there is some injury messing with his game now) but my sense is that Schoebel has never played like or really been as good as the classic stud DE we are used to.

 

 

Schobel has his strengths and probably deserved his Pro Bowl designation of a couple of years back. However, we Bills fans were spoiled by years of watching Bruce Smith not only fit the classic sackmaster definition of a DE but he simply rewrote the standard by being a stud against the run and incredibly athletic so that he deserved not only a double team but even a triple team and the whole offense slid his way making Jeff Wright, Phil Hansen, LBs given a one-on-one shot and DBs picking off poorly thrown passes a field day,

 

Schobel despite his Pro Bowl honors cannot even smell Bruce's jock strap.

 

What does Schobel do well that earned him his Pro Bowl nod:

 

1. Defines the hard working (often white in this caricature) DE who is relentless in his pursuit. Schobel gets more than his share of sacks, but unlike BS who could choose from a bunch of different initial moves that might flat out beat the opposing OL player, Schobel's MO starting from his rookie year was to get blocked but stick with it and stick with it and if the QB held onto the ball too long or worse for him got flushed by another rusher Schobel was there to pick up the sack while less determined DL players has either given up pushing or been run out of the play.

 

2. Schobel did not set-up leverage well when he engaged so that he could simply be pushed aside at the point of attack when he was a rookie. However, as he gained more experience he not only weight-trained to increase his strength but got better leverage when he engaged and had far more strength at the point of attack or when he engaged blockers. I think part of the reason why Schobel so impresses fellow players and opposing coaches is that the book on how to beat him as a rookie was fairly simple and widely pursued. He improved himself as a player to invalidate the book every team had ob him and though this was a small improvement I think lots of folks noticed and Schobel got an inordinate amount of thought from opponents as they looked for a new advantage.

 

3. The Bills switching to the zone blitz under LeBeau/Gray also came at a good time for Schobel's development as not only did he impress his peers with increased strength, but he did this while at the same time actually dropping his actual weight as he simply became more buff. He also added a great skill when he dropped weight as he really took to the added pass coverage duties of the zone blitz. Schobel showed enough athleticism that he not only could fall back in coverage as the zone blitz dictated, but he was quick and agile enough for him to drop back into the mid zone and not just play the short zone. In one pre-season game he picked off a pass deep enough that many LBs might have had trouble making the drop back he did as a DL player. Though he was sometimes overmatched it was not unusual to see Schobel cover a WR in the endzone as part of a redzone zone blitz.

 

from what I have seen Schobel's skills have not declined in an untoward manner, he never has had a variety of great first moves so he is not gonna immediately pressure the QB. The problem I think is that the D scheme has not yet figured out how to get consistent pressure up the middle even though Stroud and Williams occasionally show the ability to do this and without pressure across the DL. Schobel is just an average DE and can be taken on one-on-one.

[murra]

I agree. I thought he was one of the better defenders on the field today. He even had a pass defense today. I agree with you.

 

 

 

 

You are retarded moron who knows nothing about football. You should never grace this board again with your stupid opinions. Obviously Schobel played well today and if you can't see that then maybe you should start watching chick flicks instead you moron. Why don't you find a horse to sleep with. You are a know nothing inexcusable piece of crap that tries to pass themselves off as a human being. You didn't even know who the very first draft pick in the NFL was! You need to go back to kindergarten and maybe go to one of those Bills classes they hold for women. I'm sure you wear dresses anyway so they probably won't notice you for brains loser.

 

:angry: :lol:

 

 

See how ya are?

 

Yes, thats exactly how I am. Too bad you were wrong about Schobel, otherwise it might have been your first good post that I've read. As for ripping on Chris Ellis...really? You realize he's the third round future of the DL right now. He's not getting looks because of the contracts to Schobel and Kelsay and it will remain that way the remainder of the season, but to sarcastically say that he's not playing because he's not good is (oh no, insult pending...) ignorant.

[Steely Dan]

Yes, thats exactly how I am. Too bad you were wrong about Schobel, otherwise it might have been your first good post that I've read. As for ripping on Chris Ellis...really? You realize he's the third round future of the DL right now. He's not getting looks because of the contracts to Schobel and Kelsay and it will remain that way the remainder of the season, but to sarcastically say that he's not playing because he's not good is (oh no, insult pending...) ignorant.

 

That is one of the stupidest things I've read here. Why is Greer starting over McKelvin? McKelvin makes more money than him. Why isn't JP starting over Edwards he makes more than Edwards. Why is Kyle Williams starting over McCargo? McCargo makes more money. Believe me Ralph wants to win and so does Jauron. The starters are based on talent not contracts.

[murra]

Woah woah woah. And also because he's an unproven 3rd rounder. Let's not get carried away here. I said contracts because it was a quick way of explaining why Schobel has been playing. I didn't think you'd assume it to be the only reason he's playing. In fact, why am I defending myself to you...when I mentioned Chris Ellis earlier in the thread it was in response to who else we have at DE. I didn't say he should be starting. I don't even know why you got me to start defending something I don't believe in.

[BEAST MODE BABY!]

Chris Ellis.

 

Is Schobel the newest guy we're running out of town? I just wanna make sure I'm on top of things...

[Steely Dan]

First there was this:

 

Who would you replace him with. It is not like DEs are available for free on the street. The Bills chose to go with two undersized DEs in Kelsay and Schoebel and both were neutralized today. I also think the Cards used the TE effectively in pass blocking. Also, since the DBs gave so much cushion, the cards went for the quick pass for 5-6 yards to move the chains. In theory Kurt Warner never needed too much time to make his passes count.

 

Immediately after that post you posted this;

 

Chris Ellis.

 

 

Yes, thats exactly how I am. Too bad you were wrong about Schobel, otherwise it might have been your first good post that I've read. As for ripping on Chris Ellis...really? You realize he's the third round future of the DL right now. He's not getting looks because of the contracts to Schobel and Kelsay and it will remain that way the remainder of the season, but to sarcastically say that he's not playing because he's not good is (oh no, insult pending...) ignorant.

 

 

Sorry, I must've misinterpreted that somehow.

[Steely Dan]

Is Schoebel the newest guy we're running out of town? I just wanna make sure I'm on top of things...

 

It certainly appears that way doesn't it?

 

He only has one sack but I've seen a few pressures a game.

[Dan]

It certainly appears that way doesn't it?

 

He only has one sack but I've seen a few pressures a game.

Several pressures, several tackles for no gain, and a tipped pass today. Other than that, he sucked.

 

Schobel is not the problem. Yes, it would be nice to see more sacks, but running one of the few guys actually playing out of town is not the answer.

[Steely Dan]

Several pressures, several tackles for no gain, and a tipped pass today. Other than that, he sucked.

 

Schobel is not the problem. Yes, it would be nice to see more sacks, but running one of the few guys actually playing out of town is not the answer.

 

Sorry wasn't clear enough. My point was defending him. I think pressures can be almost as valuable as sacks. Pressures force the QB into making mistakes a lot. Those mistakes can make fumbles or interceptions.

 

On a side note I'm amazed at how TE deals with pressures. On the play he was injured on he got that ball out a splitsecond before he got hurt and threw it perfectly, that's not the first time he's done something like that this year.

[Dan]

Sorry wasn't clear enough. My point was defending him. I think pressures can be almost as valuable as sacks. Pressures force the QB into making mistakes a lot. Those mistakes can make fumbles or interceptions.

 

On a side note I'm amazed at how TE deals with pressures. On the play he was injured on he got that ball out a splitsecond before he got hurt and threw it perfectly, that's not the first time he's done something like that this year.

 

Sorry, the sarcasm didn't come through. I was agreeing with you and adding to it. He was one of the few defensive players that I wasn't cussing throughout the game.

[Steely Dan]

Sorry, the sarcasm didn't come through. I was agreeing with you and adding to it. He was one of the few defensive players that I wasn't cussing throughout the game.

 

I didn't cuss much during this game because I lost my voice by the end of the second half.

[Dan]

I didn't cuss much during this game because I lost my voice by the end of the second half.

I hear ya there. Mine made it until the Royal fumble. Good thing the wife doesn't know how to post videos to youtube. That's all I can say.

[Shamrock]

Why don't you find a horse to sleep with.

 

I was laughing really hard when i read this, spilt my coffee.

Then for some reason Steely, i was asking... how...why or from where did you get this from?

Huh?...

I've done my fair share of nightclub door work so I've been called a few things, but nobody has mentioned that i should shack up with a horse...

[Steely Dan]

I was laughing really hard when i read this, spilt my coffee.

Then for some reason Steely, i was asking... how...why or from where did you get this from?

Huh?...

I've done my fair share of nightclub door work so I've been called a few things, but nobody has mentioned that i should shack up with a horse...

 

Errrr, ummm, well ya see, my grandparents were farmers and

I saw a movie with that in it.

 

Look does it really matter!!

[Shamrock]

Errrr, ummm, well ya see, my grandparents were farmers and

I saw a movie with that in it.

 

Look does it really matter!!

 

Nope. A laugh's a laugh.

[TheChimp]

We're sorry. Aaron Schobel no longer rushes the passer from the RDE position on the Buffalo Bills defense. Instead, from approximately 4:15 EST to 7:15 EST, Mr. Schobel was busy lining up at RDE or RDT and running crazy stunts with the rest of the defensive line. For example, a favorite call in today's game was Schobel at RDT twisting outside and making contact with Arizona's RT. Effectively, Mr. Schobel was rushing the passer as an LDE....but lining up as an RDT.

 

As you can tell from Kurt Warner taking exactly ONE HIT all game, the stunts on the defensive line were pretty darn effective. As was that awesome lineup they used where the DT's lined up outside the guards, the DE's lined up outside the tackles, and Arizona's C, the weakest link on their line, had no one to block since we were trying to rush from the outside and "contain" Kurt Warner....a QB who doesn't scramble all that well. BRILLIANT! They were forming the pocket for him.

[Shamrock]

We're sorry. Aaron Schobel no longer rushes the passer from the RDE position on the Buffalo Bills defense. Instead, from approximately 4:15 EST to 7:15 EST, Mr. Schobel was busy lining up at RDE or RDT and running crazy stunts with the rest of the defensive line. For example, a favorite call in today's game was Schobel at RDT twisting outside and making contact with Arizona's RT. Effectively, Mr. Schobel was rushing the passer as an LDE....but lining up as an RDT.

 

So was Schobel running stunts with the entire left side of the d-line to end up outside?

[Buffaloed in Pa]

Yeah, he was awful.

 

Led all DLinemen in tackles.

Led the team in QB hits.

Led the team in tackles for loss.

Led the team in passes defended.

 

He's undoubtedly the guy who should be taking shlt.

Yeah he`s the guy MIKE GAndy owned One on One on every pass -rush. Watch the game. Flame away as usual !

[Big Turk]

The defense was horrible, primarily the secondary who didn't cover anybody all day.

But it seems incredibly silly to single out Schobel who had another solid, if unspectacular, outing when so many around him really stunk up the joint.

 

Why? Schobel had a matchup he should be expected to dominate and he got completely and effectively neutralized by a guy who was moved to guard during the middle of his career cause he sucked so bad as a tackle...

 

When a guy gets paid elite DE money, you have the right to expect him to perform like an elite DE. He has been barely adequate this year, and has been frighteningly ineffective even against lower rung LT's that he usually feasts upon and rolls up his sack totals against every year. We are used to seeing him being neutralized by elite LT's, but to see it happen against guys that suck is not a good feeling...