apuszczalowski Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 It was a dirty play, since you insist on my answering. But I don't think he's a dirty player all around. I watch very little of Wilson, who does have a reputation as a guy who brings the wood. But in one game, he almost took out two people. In comparison to Poz, it's at least arguable that Poz grabbed hold of the facemask by mistake and simply held on. It's not arguable that Wilson deliberately wrenched the helmet off of Lynch. This is not to say that players like Wilson aren't good players. Rodney Harrison is the model (an updated Tatum), in fact. So if Wilson has a reputation, before Sundays game, where were previous incidents of his "dirty" plays? Just because he hits hard, it doesn't mean he is an assassin or dirty. And how is it arguable that Lynch losing his helmet was a deliberate move by Wilson, yet Poz ripping someones helmet around 180 degrees was an accident?
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 So if Wilson has a reputation, before Sundays game, where were previous incidents of his "dirty" plays? Just because he hits hard, it doesn't mean he is an assassin or dirty. And how is it arguable that Lynch losing his helmet was a deliberate move by Wilson, yet Poz ripping someones helmet around 180 degrees was an accident? Because Poz was desperately trying to grab at something running by him. It probably wasn't deliberate. With Wilson, Lynch was being tackled by two other players on a loss and the play was essentially over. It was entirely, inarguably gratuitous. As for Wilson's reputation, there are a million links to it. Since you're asking, here's the definitive proof: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=3439800 "A review of data since 2001 shows Arizona Cardinals safety Adrian Wilson with a league-high 17 personal fouls." Is that good enough?
ColdBlueNorth Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 You can take anyone out with almost any kind of hit if they are in a vulnerable position like trent was in. It wasn't a "helmet to Helmet" hit with intentions to injure, it was helmet to helmet because they are around the same height and thats where peoples heads end up if they don't duck So you are saying that it was a helmet to helmet hit, but only because they are the same height?
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 hahahaha...best post yet...that was awesome!...LMAO... the fact this thread still has life is amusing me...I love how someone just mentioned another hit on lynch as a reference to making this one dirty when they have ZERO similarities and Lynch ripped his own helmet off...this is too much...if a fan from another team saw all these cry baby posts today they would say the fans are as soft as our O-line played yesterday...hahaha next topic please...I am still LMAO off though on your "baby on board" helmet logos...classic I'm not sure of the reason for the sneering sarcasm. Using the NFL's own measure - personal fouls - Wilson is the league's dirtiest player this decade.
apuszczalowski Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Because Poz was desperately trying to grab at something running by him. It probably wasn't deliberate. With Wilson, Lynch was being tackled by two other players on a loss and the play was essentially over. It was entirely, inarguably gratuitous. As for Wilson's reputation, there are a million links to it. Since you're asking, here's the definitive proof: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=3439800 "A review of data since 2001 shows Arizona Cardinals safety Adrian Wilson with a league-high 17 personal fouls." Is that good enough? Its what I asked for so yes Although it doesn't go into details on the personal fouls, it does show he has a history of being penalized for it. It does speak a bit for him that coaches didn't think enough of him being dirty with all those personal fouls to consider him a dirty player though. As for the Lynch play, the tackle, or attempt to add to the tackle, may have been gratuitous, but that doesn't mean that he intentionally tried to rip off his helmet and injure him. Guys do lose their helmets alot and I would saw having your helmet pulled up and off your head seems more like an accident then having it spun 180 degrees around your head. I do think that because you have it in your head that Wilson is dirty because of the amount of personal fouls is clouding the judgement of the play a little in assuming that his intent was to hurt Trent or Lynch, while since Poz doesn't have a background like that and he is a Bill, you assume that his incidence wasn't dirty or had no intent to injure
Alphadawg7 Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I'm not sure of the reason for the sneering sarcasm. Using the NFL's own measure - personal fouls - Wilson is the league's dirtiest player this decade. What does a players reputation have to do with whether or not the hit was legal according to league rules? It was a great hit, simple as that. It actually didnt even look that bad, just a solid hit. The hit did nothing to Trent, what hurt his was the fact that he left his feet on his own accord, got hit in the air, causing him to land completely flat which in turn will always result in your head smacking the turf... If trent doesnt jump, he doesnt likely get hurt on this play...man, this topic is so lame...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 6, 2008 Author Posted October 6, 2008 What does a players reputation have to do with whether or not the hit was legal according to league rules? It was a great hit, simple as that. It actually didnt even look that bad, just a solid hit. The hit did nothing to Trent, what hurt his was the fact that he left his feet on his own accord, got hit in the air, causing him to land completely flat which in turn will always result in your head smacking the turf... If trent doesnt jump, he doesnt likely get hurt on this play...man, this topic is so lame... Trent didn't jump, he followed through on his throw. If you think this topic is lame, then why continue to post on it?
ColdBlueNorth Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 The hit looked legal to me. The follow through as the players hit the ground looked like the defender took some liberty to drive home the blow. It may be dirty, but its part of the game, and not against the rules. You surprise me John, I thought that you would see that as a clear helmet to helmet hit. Not dirty, but against the rules none-the-less. For ticky tacky penalties, I thought the roughing the passer penalty last night against the Steelers was out of line - a clean hit just as the QB released the ball... lame.
Alphadawg7 Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Trent didn't jump, he followed through on his throw. If you think this topic is lame, then why continue to post on it? Because I find it amusing that this is a focal point and that not only was it not dirty, but you will not here one peep about it from the OBD, the front office, the NFL, etc. It was within the rules and I would encourage our players to hit people like that. Maybe if Denney would have hit hightower like that rather than his lame attempt at an arm tackle on a critical 3rd down play, we would have turned the game ourselves instead of giving up a big run on 3rd and 3.
stuckincincy Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Because Poz was desperately trying to grab at something running by him. It probably wasn't deliberate. With Wilson, Lynch was being tackled by two other players on a loss and the play was essentially over. It was entirely, inarguably gratuitous. As for Wilson's reputation, there are a million links to it. Since you're asking, here's the definitive proof: http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/stor...&id=3439800 "A review of data since 2001 shows Arizona Cardinals safety Adrian Wilson with a league-high 17 personal fouls." Is that good enough? You've hit rock bottom, yet you continue to dig. Here is the NFL video. http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80b65e35 Go to about 0:26. See that ref? The one with the nice view? Either that ref is a) Paid off by AZ. b) or blind. c) or didn't see a cause for a penalty, and didn't toss a flag.
Jerry Jabber Posted October 6, 2008 Author Posted October 6, 2008 Because I find it amusing that this is a focal point and that not only was it not dirty, but you will not here one peep about it from the OBD, the front office, the NFL, etc. It was within the rules and I would encourage our players to hit people like that. Maybe if Denney would have hit hightower like that rather than his lame attempt at an arm tackle on a critical 3rd down play, we would have turned the game ourselves instead of giving up a big run on 3rd and 3. Yes, there were a bunch of things that happened during the game that hurt us, but that's not the point of this thread. We get, you think it's a clean hit, good for you.
apuszczalowski Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 You've hit rock bottom, yet you continue to dig. Here is the NFL video. http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80b65e35 Go to about 0:26. See that ref? The one with the nice view? Either that ref is a) Paid off by AZ. b) or blind. c) or didn't see a cause for a penalty, and didn't toss a flag. from what I saw of that video, it was not a helmet to helmet hit, Wilsons helmet went into Edwards armpit and he followed through on the tackle. Edwards did jump into the air to make the throw, and thats why he went back and fell hard. The force of the hit, plus Edwards being off the grown drove him into the ground. Wilson did push his head off edwards chest into his facemask when getting up, but that was after Edwards was already out. The reason for the injury was edwards landing flat on his back and his head bouncing off the turf and immediatly into Wilsons helmet which was in his chest.
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 You've hit rock bottom, yet you continue to dig. Here is the NFL video. http://www.nfl.com/videos?videoId=09000d5d80b65e35 Go to about 0:26. See that ref? The one with the nice view? Either that ref is a) Paid off by AZ. b) or blind. c) or didn't see a cause for a penalty, and didn't toss a flag. You apparently didn't read what I actually wrote. I stated multiple times that the Edwards hit was technically legal. What I described as inarguably dirty was when he deliberately ripped Lynch's helmet off. Do I think that the Edwards hit displayed a level of maliciousness that reflects Wilson's past behavior, which has made him the dirtiest player in the league? Yes. But it wasn't deserving of a penalty. Carry on.
dave mcbride Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Its what I asked for so yes Although it doesn't go into details on the personal fouls, it does show he has a history of being penalized for it. It does speak a bit for him that coaches didn't think enough of him being dirty with all those personal fouls to consider him a dirty player though. As for the Lynch play, the tackle, or attempt to add to the tackle, may have been gratuitous, but that doesn't mean that he intentionally tried to rip off his helmet and injure him. Guys do lose their helmets alot and I would saw having your helmet pulled up and off your head seems more like an accident then having it spun 180 degrees around your head. I do think that because you have it in your head that Wilson is dirty because of the amount of personal fouls is clouding the judgement of the play a little in assuming that his intent was to hurt Trent or Lynch, while since Poz doesn't have a background like that and he is a Bill, you assume that his incidence wasn't dirty or had no intent to injure I'm not sure he *tried* to injure him when he ripped his helmet off, but I'm quite sure that he *tried* to rip his helmet off when he placed his fingers underneath the bottom part near of the end of the tackle and wrenched it off. He succeeded, after which Lynch was kneed in the head while on the ground by another player. He was slightly groggy when he came up, which is of course is more likely to occur when your helmet has been deliberately pried off and you're on the ground beneath two 260 pounders. As for the coaches not voting for him, it's a popularity contest. The Cardinals never get the credit they deserve because no one gives a damn about them. Everyone knows about Harrison.
apuszczalowski Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 I'm not sure he *tried* to injure him when he ripped his helmet off, but I'm quite sure that he *tried* to rip his helmet off when he placed his fingers underneath the bottom part near of the end of the tackle and wrenched it off. He succeeded, after which Lynch was kneed in the head while on the ground by another player. He was slightly groggy when he came up, which is of course is more likely to occur when your helmet has been deliberately pried off and you're on the ground beneath two 260 pounders. As for the coaches not voting for him, it's a popularity contest. The Cardinals never get the credit they deserve because no one gives a damn about them. Everyone knows about Harrison. Its a popularity contest having the coaches in the league vote for who they feel is the dirtiest player in the game? I think you are really reaching on this one
stuckincincy Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 You apparently didn't read what I actually wrote. I stated multiple times that the Edwards hit was technically legal. What I described as inarguably dirty was when he deliberately ripped Lynch's helmet off. Do I think that the Edwards hit displayed a level of maliciousness that reflects Wilson's past behavior, which has made him the dirtiest player in the league? Yes. But it wasn't deserving of a penalty. Carry on. In a topic about the hit on Edwards, you chose to interject a hit on Lynch, and cite a link about the AZ safety. The backdoor approach to try to sway the original subject is historical. I merely took efforts to illuminate your obfuscation. The use of the word "technically", before legal, is a tip-off... Carry on.
Rayzer32 Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 That hit teeters on the illegal/legal line. First he led with the crown of his helmet, which is totally illegal. He also kept driving all the way to the end, which is what these guys are taught. The only problem I had was the way he led with his helmet. It could have gone either way. But with that being said, the non-call on Mitchell could have just as easily been flagged. Hell, Mitchell even drew blood. That's an extra deuce in the NHL. Bottom line is, this team missed McGee more than anyone thought. AZ WRs were open like Vegas Casinos.
The Senator Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Clean hit, IMHO, and I'm probably the most one-sided Bills backer that exists. Here's an interesting perspective on hitting QBs... Art Donovan
bizell Posted October 6, 2008 Posted October 6, 2008 Trent didn't jump, he followed through on his throw. If you think this topic is lame, then why continue to post on it? trent DID jump. maybe you need to re-check the video...
Jerry Jabber Posted October 6, 2008 Author Posted October 6, 2008 trent DID jump. maybe you need to re-check the video... I'll have to check. From what I saw, it looked like he was following through on his pass (which is what he did on the TD to Parrish).
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