Those blaming JP....??

[Bill from NYC]

So if Trent could only lead the Bills to 24 points against the Rams' lousy defense, what makes ANYONE think he would have scored more against the Cards' defense? There is simply NO support for this.

 

I don't pin the bulk of the blame on JP (some of it, yes) but I will attempt to answer your question.

 

You see, Trent has 14 starts. 14!!!!! As good as he already is, there is no reason to doubt that he will get even better and score more points, even against better teams.

This is why I allow myself to get drawn into these futile arguements. The expectations and requirements placed on Trent by some people here are staggering. He needs to play like Johnny Unitas in the cold. He needs to bring his "A" game every week. This to replace a chronic, serial loser, in terms of games he has started. If Trent was playing at a considerable lesser level than he is now, he would probably still merit the starting role.

 

Now, am I convinced that Trent would have scored more points than JP in this loss? No, because there is no possible way to arrive at a firm confusion. What we do know is that the defense was putrid, and JP played at about the level that many would have expected him to.

[keepthefaith]

I said i was done with this thread...but i had to return to reply to JimmyPage....

 

 

 

This is a classic case of someone not understanding football enough here...He claims the Jets torched the Cards defense...they scored 56 points and we couldnt even score 20....

 

What he doesnt realize is that,....

 

The cards turned over the ball 7 times

 

 

 

7 TIMES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

 

 

If our defense could have stopped them a couple times in the first half...the 4th quarter, were JP and the offense imploded, would have been completely different...

 

Way too much common sense and logic here.

[MRW]

I don't pin the bulk of the blame on JP (some of it, yes) but I will attempt to answer your question.

 

You see, Trent has 14 starts. 14!!!!! As good as he already is, there is no reason to doubt that he will get even better and score more points, even against better teams.

This is why I allow myself to get drawn into these futile arguements. The expectations and requirements placed on Trent by some people here are staggering. He needs to play like Johnny Unitas in the cold. He needs to bring his "A" game every week. This to replace a chronic, serial loser, in terms of games he has started. If Trent was playing at a considerable lesser level than he is now, he would probably still merit the starting role.

 

Now, am I convinced that Trent would have scored more points than JP in this loss? No, because there is no possible way to arrive at a firm confusion. What we do know is that the defense was putrid, and JP played at about the level that many would have expected him to.

Bill, I've been impressed by TE's play so far this year. But the offense isn't just Edwards, it's the receivers, backs, and (especially) the OL. Based on the first 4 games I see little reason to expect that this offense is poised to be the next great explosive offense. Do I think that Edwards is capable of that kind of performance? Yes, but I don't think he's there yet, and more importantly I don't think the offense as a whole is built for it. Start any of the QBs on this roster against that Arizona team, with our D playing that poorly, and I don't think the results would be much different.

[JimmyPage]

He's devoted to the city of Buffalo, said he wanted to clean up the streets, and he interacts with the fans at training camp perhaps more than any other player.

 

And I'd be interested in your opinion on all these backup QB's that are so much better than JP. Let's look to the AFC east. Kellen Clemons? Cleo Lemon? Matt Gutierrez?

 

Or would you rather see Kyle Boller in there? Maybe Jared Lorenzen? How about Charlie Frye?

 

Who are these NFL backup QB's that are better than JP?

I don't really want to go dig up your post but I thought you said Losamn was a better than average nfl QB which is quite different than saying better than average backup.

Maybe I misread your post.

 

On this other stuff about him being a good guy, lots of people thought OJ was a good guy too.

What these athletes do in public events really doesn't tell you much.

And let's be honest , some of the community things athletes involve themselves in, is in part done to bolster their image with the fans.

Some of it is smart PR work directed by their agents, because when you are a fan favorite it helps.

Do you think Losman was organizing clean up the streets events in his hometown or during his college days?

Or did this stuff just happen to surface when multi-million dollar contracts came into play?

I don't know the answers to those type of questions.

It's just opinion, because we don't have much to go on, you think you know Losman and his character, I don't think I do or anyone here does.

[JimmyPage]

Bill, I've been impressed by TE's play so far this year. But the offense isn't just Edwards, it's the receivers, backs, and (especially) the OL. Based on the first 4 games I see little reason to expect that this offense is poised to be the next great explosive offense. Do I think that Edwards is capable of that kind of performance? Yes, but I don't think he's there yet, and more importantly I don't think the offense as a whole is built for it. Start any of the QBs on this roster against that Arizona team, with our D playing that poorly, and I don't think the results would be much different.

Here are the key points to the whole thread:

 

1. We can look at this 2 ways

2. Most of the diehard JP fans refuse to look at it 2 ways, they want to look at it only one way

 

Which way is that ?

Answer: the defense played like crap so it didn't matter anyways.

 

 

What is the other way to look at it?

Answer :The offense with Losman at QB only put up 17 points vs arizona, very few defenses can beat arizona if their offense only puts up 17, so it didn't matter how the defense played anyways.

 

 

They choose to assign blame to the defense to shield Losman.

But the truth is it can easily be looked the other way around.

 

 

Understand that no matter how bad the defense played Losman had his chances to produce.

Funny thing about football is that you get the ball back every time the opponent scores.

And the offense with Losman at the helm only put up 17.

He certain isn't without blame in this loss.

In fact he never gave the defense a chance to win it, did he?

No, he certainly didn't.

 

How do I look at it?

The defense played like crap, had a very poor gameplan, and did not adjust.

Losman looked like, well Losman, and that's not enough to get it done.

Had the offense sustained and finished some drives Arizona wouldn't have scored 41.

This game was lost on both offense and defense.

I think, no, I know, we would have stood a better chance with Edwards in there.

[AnthonyF]

Here are the key points to the whole thread:

 

1. We can look at this 2 ways

2. Most of the diehard JP fans refuse to look at it 2 ways, they want to look at it only one way

 

Which way is that ?

Answer: the defense played like crap so it didn't matter anyways.

 

 

What is the other way to look at it?

Answer :The offense with Losman at QB only put up 17 points vs arizona, very few defenses can beat arizona if their offense only puts up 17, so it didn't matter how the defense played anyways.

 

 

They choose to assign blame to the defense to shield Losman.

But the truth is it can easily be looked the other way around.

 

 

Understand that no matter how bad the defense played Losman had his chances to produce.

Funny thing about football is that you get the ball back every time the opponent scores.

And the offense with Losman at the helm only put up 17.

He certain isn't without blame in this loss.

In fact he never gave the defense a chance to win it, did he?

No, he certainly didn't.

 

How do I look at it?

The defense played like crap, had a very poor gameplan, and did not adjust.

Losman looked like, well Losman, and that's not enough to get it done.

Had the offense sustained and finished some drives Arizona wouldn't have scored 41.

This game was lost on both offense and defense.

I think, no, I know, we would have stood a better chance with Edwards in there.

 

Losman led scoring TD drives 2 of his 4 possessions the first half (including the last 2). There first drive of the second half had 4 handoffs and the inability to rush for 5 yards and a first down during that second set of downs. Afterwards Arizona converted 4-5 third downs scored a TD, Royal fumbled the first play and the game was over.

 

There is no blame on Losman as we were then down 21 points through 3. I refuse to discuss a wasted 4th quarter.

[JimmyPage]

The final thing I want to say in this thread (hopefully anyways) is that most fans went into this season with the idea that the Bills had "two good QBs".

 

This game to me cemented the reality that we have one good QB learning on the job at a fast pace, and we have very little hope with the backups.

 

We do not have two good QBs.

We better find a good backup for next season..

 

Let's just all hope that Edwards bounces back and picks up where he left off so we can all leave these Losman conversations where they belong...in the past.

 

Hopefully that is not offensive to anyone.

[JimmyPage]

Losman led scoring TD drives 2 of his 4 possessions the first half (including the last 2). There first drive of the second half had 4 handoffs and the inability to rush for 5 yards and a first down during that second set of downs. Afterwards Arizona converted 4-5 third downs scored a TD, Royal fumbled the first play and the game was over.

 

There is no blame on Losman as we were then down 21 points through 3. I refuse to discuss a wasted 4th quarter.

Ok so, they scored on 2 of the first 4 possessions , so you are Ok with it going completely south after that?

It's not a 4 possession game.

It's a 4 quarter game.

[murra]

What's very clear to me is that the Bills defense plays poorly when JP is in the game. Both last year and again last Sunday. The conspiracy should be investigated. It's uncanny.

 

Wait...are you serious? You actually are telling me that either you thought the defense was not bad, or you think there is actually a correlation between JP and the defense. Am I reading that right? Please, inform me. The way I read it, you were either entirely sarcastic, and pretty much were making fun of people who thought JP did fine by saying that the defense wasn't bad, it was all JP. Then again, if you weren't being sarcastic, you were basically saying you actually think the Bills refuse to play defense for JP Losman...

 

 

You're the reason why I'm leaving the board. It's people like that, that shouldn't be allowed to have a computer.

[murra]

Losman led scoring TD drives 2 of his 4 possessions the first half (including the last 2). There first drive of the second half had 4 handoffs and the inability to rush for 5 yards and a first down during that second set of downs. Afterwards Arizona converted 4-5 third downs scored a TD, Royal fumbled the first play and the game was over.

 

There is no blame on Losman as we were then down 21 points through 3. I refuse to discuss a wasted 4th quarter.

 

I was trying to say this the entire time. People refuse to listen. No one realizes that JP did all he could. They simply hate him. I never said he was better than Trent, but what you said is exactly why I think he's a great back up. He was riled up, and the coaches didn't put him in a situation to win, and the defense lost us the game.

[JimmyPage]

I was trying to say this the entire time. People refuse to listen. No one realizes that JP did all he could. They simply hate him. I never said he was better than Trent, but what you said is exactly why I think he's a great back up. He was riled up, and the coaches didn't put him in a situation to win, and the defense lost us the game.

He did all he could?

I guess when the maximum a QB can do (according to you) is put up 17 that is a problem.

No wonder he's on the bench.

 

The coaches didn't put him in a position to win?

How does Edwards get it done then?

[murra]

He did all he could?

I guess when the maximum a QB can do (according to you) is put up 17 that is a problem.

No wonder he's on the bench.

 

The coaches didn't put him in a position to win?

How does Edwards get it done then?

 

I don't understand why you're making it seem like Edwards being in means we get the ball more. Before the game got out of hand we stopped their defense a total of two times. They were on the field forever. Why are you here? I don't get it, really. You make no sense. You're refuting that the coaches didn't put him in a position to win? Really. The drive where we refused to pass, the first one in the 3rd quarter. That is refusing to let JP win. How does Edwards get it done? He passes the football. Now after you complain about all the things JP did wrong, remember they were in the 4th quarter when bad coaching and defense had already lost us the game and JP was playing in obvious pass situations and they kept coming, and our O-Line wasn't up to it.

[VOR]

He did all he could?

I guess when the maximum a QB can do (according to you) is put up 17 that is a problem.

No wonder he's on the bench.

Versus putting up 24 points on the worst scoring defense in the NFL?

[keepthefaith]

I don't understand why you're making it seem like Edwards being in means we get the ball more. Before the game got out of hand we stopped their defense a total of two times. They were on the field forever. Why are you here? I don't get it, really. You make no sense. You're refuting that the coaches didn't put him in a position to win? Really. The drive where we refused to pass, the first one in the 3rd quarter. That is refusing to let JP win. How does Edwards get it done? He passes the football. Now after you complain about all the things JP did wrong, remember they were in the 4th quarter when bad coaching and defense had already lost us the game and JP was playing in obvious pass situations and they kept coming, and our O-Line wasn't up to it.

 

Relax, there is a double standard around here. Edwards is only praised for the good things he's done and JP is only criticized for the bad things he does. Trent has had a few stinky halves of football this season, and has at times looked every bit as ugly as JP. He's been sacked after holding the ball to long. Has overthrown and underthrown receivers, had poor touch on some passes, has thrown too high and too low. He has also thrown interceptions. JP had far more good plays than bad on Sunday, but 2-3 plays along with poor blocking up front and the season's worst defensive performance all fall on his shoulders. Trent had he been in there for the entire game would have taken a beating as well and would have made some bads plays of his own. Fortunately for him, he was spared with an early exit while the rest of the team got whipped.

[Gordio]

Its pointless to argue that JP sucks to people who disagree. They will never be convinced. I give up.

 

 

Perhaps they will be convinced once he is out of the league & playing Arena Ball in 2 years.

 

Paul Hamilton said something pretty interesting on the ride home from work today. Bulldog asked him if Losman does play against SD, this would be a perfect time to convince the rest of the league going into next year that he could be the guy. Hamilton first said, "I am not trying to be a wise guy here, but if Losman gets any extended playing time this year, I think he is going to cost himself some money & perhaps a chance to compete for a starting job next year because teams will have recent footage on him & be reminded how bad of a qb he is".

[murra]

Perhaps they will be convinced once he is out of the league & playing Arena Ball in 2 years.

 

Paul Hamilton said something pretty interesting on the ride home from work today. Bulldog asked him if Losman does play against SD, this would be a perfect time to convince the rest of the league going into next year that he could be the guy. Hamilton first said, "I am not trying to be a wise guy here, but if Losman gets any extended playing time this year, I think he is going to cost himself some money & perhaps a chance to compete for a starting job next year because teams will have recent footage on him & be reminded how bad of a qb he is".

 

Key words in that paragraph:

 

Paul Hamilton.

[JimmyPage]

I don't understand why you're making it seem like Edwards being in means we get the ball more. Before the game got out of hand we stopped their defense a total of two times. They were on the field forever. Why are you here? I don't get it, really. You make no sense. You're refuting that the coaches didn't put him in a position to win? Really. The drive where we refused to pass, the first one in the 3rd quarter. That is refusing to let JP win. How does Edwards get it done? He passes the football. Now after you complain about all the things JP did wrong, remember they were in the 4th quarter when bad coaching and defense had already lost us the game and JP was playing in obvious pass situations and they kept coming, and our O-Line wasn't up to it.

I never said that Edwards means the Bills get the ball more.

LMFAO

What could have given you that idea?

They sustain drives when Edwards is in there.

 

Why am I here?

I'll answer that with a question.

Why are you here?

 

The coaches didn't prevent Losman from scoring points.

Nothing the coaches did lead to Losman only putting up 17

In fact Losman himself has said how much he likes the OC's play calling.

 

So they had one drive where they ran the ball and that is refusing to let Losman win?

You cannot be serious!

Do you honestly believe that when Edwards starts the Bills don't have at least one drive where they mostly run?

[JimmyPage]

Perhaps they will be convinced once he is out of the league & playing Arena Ball in 2 years.

 

Paul Hamilton said something pretty interesting on the ride home from work today. Bulldog asked him if Losman does play against SD, this would be a perfect time to convince the rest of the league going into next year that he could be the guy. Hamilton first said, "I am not trying to be a wise guy here, but if Losman gets any extended playing time this year, I think he is going to cost himself some money & perhaps a chance to compete for a starting job next year because teams will have recent footage on him & be reminded how bad of a qb he is".

Well Hamilton hit the nail on the head with that one.

[Shanahan's Horseshoe]

Before Sunday, the Bills OFFENSE have scored 17 points through 3 qtrs ONLY ONE OTHER time this year (Seattle).

 

JP was 6 of 7 for 132 and a TD (With a pefrect QB rating) and sacked only once through the 3rd quarter.

 

The Cards scored on 7 of the first 8 possesions including every single one in the first half. 5 going for TD's.

 

Defense had no sacks, FF or int's for the first time this year.

 

Justin Jenkins offsides. Defense can't hold.

 

Robert Royals fumble.

 

Game Over.....JP SUCKS!!!!!!!!

[Gordio]

Key words in that paragraph:

 

Paul Hamilton.

 

 

Well, I am just telling you what he said. I remember when NE came here last year for that sunday night game & they asked Madden if JP is the guy to lead this team long term. He said he really did not think he was. He then said, how could everybody in the league be wrong about this guy.

 

Look, I hope Losman plays well if his number is called, I really just do not think that is being realistic given his body of work over the last 4 years.