No way the Royal fumble gets overturned

[lets_go_bills]

I think Jauron still should of challenged. I definately think Royal's knee did not hit the ground. But did his shoulders touch down? Should of thrown the flag, just to be sure.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Actually, the ground CAN cause a fumble. A guy is running, falls down on his own, is not touched, and the ground causes the ball to pop out: Fumble!

 

But, in this case, his knee hitting is not the issue. The BALL hit the ground while in his possession. The play is OVER right then. The ground can't cause a fumble while being tackled.

I'm gonna take another look at it later tonight, but after watching all those replays the network showed and then rewinding it during the commercial, I never saw anything hit turf. Are you referring to when he swings his arm through the air like an idiot, just before he lost it? Or something before that?

 

And Bluefire, to say Jauron didn't challenge the play because he "gave up on the team" is just ridiculous. He was shown on the sideline frantically conversing with his guy upstairs to get the word.

 

The only argument that can be made against DJ here, which plenty have made, is that the play was big enough that it was worth a shot at getting it reversed even against long odds. I can understand that viewpoint, even though when I personally watch the play I just don't see any way we get the call, and would rather keep the extra timeout in our back pocket.

[The Dean]

I'm gonna take another look at it later tonight, but after watching all those replays the network showed and then rewinding it during the commercial, I never saw anything hit turf. Are you referring to when he swings his arm through the air like an idiot, just before he lost it? Or something before that?

 

And Bluefire, to say Jauron didn't challenge the play because he "gave up on the team" is just ridiculous. He was shown on the sideline frantically conversing with his guy upstairs to get the word.

 

The only argument that can be made against DJ here, which plenty have made, is that the play was big enough that it was worth a shot at getting it reversed even against long odds. I can understand that viewpoint, even though when I personally watch the play I just don't see any way we get the call, and would rather keep the extra timeout in our back pocket.

 

 

Honestly, I'm guessing the Bills never got a good look at a definitive replay, before the next snap. Looks like Dick was waiting for the go ahead, from upstairs.

 

It looked, to me, like the ball came out of Royals hand as a result of hitting the ground...the ground knocked it out of his hand. If that's the case, it is not a fumble.

[JohninMinn.]

It was the worst non challenge ever since challenging began. Most youngsters and thugs who post here never heard of forward progress. It was stopped and he was damn near killed. The people in the booth should be fired! I want the league to investigate if the Bills were paid off to throw this game.

[RuffMuff]

I agree with Big Bad Boone, Royal kinda threw the ball down when he was getting twisted back. The ground didnt cause the ball to come out. He just slamed it down like a dumb A$$.

[Greybeard]

I also thought the ground knocked the ball loose.

 

So if they challenged the play because the knee hit the ground and the knee didn't hit the ground but they see the ground caused the fumble, does the play get overturned??

[Dan]

OK, upon review: His knee was NOT down. However, his shin almost certainly was. As I recall from earlier today 1 shin = 1 knee. So he should have been down.

 

Initially, I thought the ball came out when he hit it on the ground. It actually came out of his hand just inches above the ground. So, the ground did not cause the fumble.

 

It would have been a close review and I would never expect the Refs to give the Bills a call. But, IMO, his shin was down when the defender was pulling him back.

 

Regardless of the outcome, Jauron still should have challenged it.

[SwampD]

Royal sure plays great in the pre-season, doesn't he?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I agree with Big Bad Boone, Royal kinda threw the ball down when he was getting twisted back. The ground didnt cause the ball to come out. He just slamed it down like a dumb A$$.

Exactly. He throws the ball down before the arm comes all the way around, maybe instinctually to break his fall. His hand is empty by the time it touches down.

 

 

You could be right, but I thought it was pretty clear the shin never quite hit, Dan.

[The Dean]

OK, upon review: His knee was NOT down. However, his shin almost certainly was. As I recall from earlier today 1 shin = 1 knee. So he should have been down.

 

Initially, I thought the ball came out when he hit it on the ground. It actually came out of his hand just inches above the ground. So, the ground did not cause the fumble.

 

It would have been a close review and I would never expect the Refs to give the Bills a call. But, IMO, his shin was down when the defender was pulling him back.

 

Regardless of the outcome, Jauron still should have challenged it.

 

 

If that is the case, it might not have been overturned, although ifany part of his body, other than his foot or hand (in an attempt to stop from falling) is down, then he should be down.

[Chilly]

And Bluefire, to say Jauron didn't challenge the play because he "gave up on the team" is just ridiculous. He was shown on the sideline frantically conversing with his guy upstairs to get the word.

 

The only argument that can be made against DJ here, which plenty have made, is that the play was big enough that it was worth a shot at getting it reversed even against long odds. I can understand that viewpoint, even though when I personally watch the play I just don't see any way we get the call, and would rather keep the extra timeout in our back pocket.

 

Just wanted to point out that you've got the wrong poster here.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Ah good point, you have my apologies. That was meant to be addressed towards Dan.

[Chilly]

Ah good point, you have my apologies. That was meant to be addressed towards Dan.

 

It's all good, I knew it was a mistake, just wanted to clear my name.

[Dan]

If that is the case, it might not have been overturned, although ifany part of his body, other than his foot or hand (in an attempt to stop from falling) is down, then he should be down.

I agree; it would have been close as to whether it was overturned or not. On TV feed, we had one replay to look at. On that one, as he was being pulled backwards, I saw the light disappear from about his ankle to mid way up his leg (not quite to his knee); but there was still light between his knee and the grass. Kinda weird to think your shin could be down and not your knee, if you ask me; but maybe he's got fat calves.

 

Now, maybe there was better angle the replay official would have seen.

[Dan]

Exactly. He throws the ball down before the arm comes all the way around, maybe instinctually to break his fall. His hand is empty by the time it touches down.

 

 

You could be right, but I thought it was pretty clear the shin never quite hit, Dan.

His shin on his right leg looks very much like it hit the grass. The left leg, no, not even close.

[Bleed Bills Blue]

Are you referring to when he swings his arm through the air like an idiot, just before he lost it?

I thought he lost the ball while lunging for the first down marker, which he, mistakenly, thought was behind him.

[Ed_Formerly_of_Roch]

"Almost certainly" does not equal conclusive evidence. Therefore unlikely would ever have been over turned. It's one of those plays where if Royal had been ruled down by contact and Arizona challenged, they also would have lost the challenge. Not matter what happens, will never be over turned.

 

So the only argument for challenging IMO is that it occurred at such a big point in game, that it was worth taking a chance on even if the odds are 100:1 against being over turned. As others pointed out, it may have been he was waiting for a better answer from upstairs, or their answer was don't bother.

 

Seems also there's something about if the first thing to hit the ground is the ball, then the ground CAN cause a fumble kind of to prevent people from just blinding sticking the ball out in front of them when going down to get an extra yard. They still do it, but they take a chance in doing so as there are some potential negative consequences if the ball slips from their hand on contact.

 

 

OK, upon review: His knee was NOT down. However, his shin almost certainly was.

Regardless of the outcome, Jauron still should have challenged it.

[ChasBB]

You hate to see a timeout wasted, but this was such a pivitol play that it would have been worth losing the timeout to give it another look.

[The Dean]

You hate to see a timeout wasted, but this was such a pivitol play that it would have been worth losing the timeout to give it another look.

 

 

I wouldn't have minded if DJ challenged here, even if he lost.

[Dan]

"Almost certainly" does not equal conclusive evidence. Therefore unlikely would ever have been over turned. It's one of those plays where if Royal had been ruled down by contact and Arizona challenged, they also would have lost the challenge. Not matter what happens, will never be over turned.

 

So the only argument for challenging IMO is that it occurred at such a big point in game, that it was worth taking a chance on even if the odds are 100:1 against being over turned. As others pointed out, it may have been he was waiting for a better answer from upstairs, or their answer was don't bother.

 

Seems also there's something about if the first thing to hit the ground is the ball, then the ground CAN cause a fumble kind of to prevent people from just blinding sticking the ball out in front of them when going down to get an extra yard. They still do it, but they take a chance in doing so as there are some potential negative consequences if the ball slips from their hand on contact.

I would have to agree. It probably wouldn't have been overturned, upon looking at the rewind a few times. However, we had only one angle to look at. I would assume a replay official would have had more than that to base a decision on. I still say Jauron should have challenged it. It was an absolutely critical time in the game and he needed to try. Granted, neither him nor the coaches seemed to have any better replay than we had sitting in our homes. But, still, challenge the play. What did we have to lose? A time out. What did we have to gain? The ball and more importantly the Cards not having the ball deep in their end.