pBills Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Same goes for Obamas people. Actually with Palin they point to the gas pipelines. Obama made statements when there. Obama came to DC when summoned by the President. He didn't have to overly dramatize the situation like McCain. Looking for political points by over extending his actual roll. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 And what happened with the 95 democrats that opposed the bill? It was an unpopular bill and unlike the GOP, the Dems rarely vote en masse. As unpopular as it was, two-thirds of them voted for it. You can't spin that the party didn't whip a majority of them into voting for an unpopular bill. There's no way to do that without looking foolish...like the GOP does right now for blaming it on Pelosi. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Oh, so you don't know... But it's all Obama's fault. OK? It's his fault as the leader of the dems to lead and sway people. Not make it political. If he can't do that on one simple bill, how is he going to do that with the hundreds of bills every year as president? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YellowLinesandArmadillos Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Show me where he said that first. Second last I check each congress critter votes individually, if they didn't like it then they should vote against it. If it was such a great bill, how come Pelosi couldn't even get all the dems to back it. Seems like it was a pig in a poke and a lot of folks knew it. Yes they vote individually, but there are surveys by each sides vote counters and they pretty much know how many votes they need... If you fib too often then you will pay a price within you caucus. Not sure about Boehner's vote counting operation, seems a little suspect or that is what he is putting forward. Delay's was considered the best of all time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 It's his fault as the leader of the dems to lead and sway people. Not make it political. If he can't do that on one simple bill, how is he going to do that with the hundreds of bills every year as president? OH my god what are you on today?? McCain made the biggest political move... I am suspending my campaign (meanwhile Palin still campaigning in NYC and ads still running???). 2/3 of the dems voted for the deal. The deal was being worked on and close to final BEFORE McCain even showed up. Remember 22 hours to get from NYC to DC? If that is how McCain reacts to something, he should even be a senator at this point, let alone President. Oh my there's a problem with Russia. I am suspending everything else, while I work on this. Then he heads off to lunch, n interview, etc., etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 It's his fault as the leader of the dems to lead and sway people. Not make it political. If he can't do that on one simple bill, how is he going to do that with the hundreds of bills every year as president? Actually, in a hotly contested presidential election season the very last thing you'd want to do as a leader would be to inject yourself into the negotiations. Obama didn't make it political, McCain did. Obama's position, rightly so, was to let the negotiations proceed in a bipartisan manner. A bipartisan agreement was essentially met, and Obama said he'd vote for it. No one asked him to help deliver votes. Why would he impose himself on a situation that was for all intents going to be resolved? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
finknottle Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 It was an unpopular bill and unlike the GOP, the Dems rarely vote en masse. As unpopular as it was, two-thirds of them voted for it. You can't spin that the party didn't whip a majority of them into voting for an unpopular bill. There's no way to do that without looking foolish...like the GOP does right now for blaming it on Pelosi. So the governing party has no obligation to get its members to vote for an unpopular bill, but the minority party does. Got it - thanks. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Actually, in a hotly contested presidential election season the very last thing you'd want to do as a leader would be to inject yourself into the negotiations. Obama didn't make it political, McCain did. Obama's position, rightly so, was to let the negotiations proceed in a bipartisan manner. A bipartisan agreement was essentially met, and Obama said he'd vote for it. No one asked him to help deliver votes. Why would he impose himself on a situation that was for all intents going to be resolved? Bingo. Talks were already proceeding and of course very delicate. What bring the campaigns into that. No reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 So the governing party has no obligation to get its members to vote for an unpopular bill, but the minority party does. Got it - thanks. The majority party HAD it's votes there, the minority party didn't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 So the governing party has no obligation to get its members to vote for an unpopular bill, but the minority party does. Got it - thanks. When the majority party adds in concessions in a bipartisan negotiation specifically asked for by the minority party, delivers two-thirds of it's own caucus for a politically unpopular bill, then yes, absolutely. They got 140 of their members to vote for it. More than twice the number of the GOP menbers that voted for it. Seriously, your (and others) point of debate on this looks stupid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Actually, in a hotly contested presidential election season the very last thing you'd want to do as a leader would be to inject yourself into the negotiations. Obama didn't make it political, McCain did. Obama's position, rightly so, was to let the negotiations proceed in a bipartisan manner. A bipartisan agreement was essentially met, and Obama said he'd vote for it. No one asked him to help deliver votes. Why would he impose himself on a situation that was for all intents going to be resolved? Because of two reasons. One he is the democrat leader now. Two, because he has to show leadership on both sides of the aisle to bring about fruit. He can't do either. BTW since when is 141/235 = 66.67% My calculator has it at 60%. SO no the dems couldn't even get a passing grade from their own idiots. 60% is not 2/3 as you keep stating. 60% is not 2/3. Let me repeat again 141 out 235 dem votes is not 2/3rds. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Because of two reasons. One he is the democrat leader now. Two, because he has to show leadership on both sides of the aisle to bring about fruit. He can't do either. BTW since when is 141/235 = 66.67% My calculator has it at 60%. SO no the dems couldn't even get a passing grade from their own idiots. So for you it's better to inject the campaigns into this and to create more drama? That's awfully Presidential. Get involved in something you shouldn't, f' it up and then place the blame elsewhere. What a leader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VABills Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 So for you it's better to inject the campaigns into this and to create more drama? That's awfully Presidential. Get involved in something you shouldn't, f' it up and then place the blame elsewhere. What a leader. Yes. They need to show leadership. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 Yes. They need to show leadership. I guess even if that leadership is bad in judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ramius Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 I don't know the "details". I don't understand the whole situation. And neither do you. As the congress critter said, if you don't know or don't understand you should vote "no". So you dont understand it, but you know its the Dems fault? Nice analysis. When did stuckincincy get a hold of your login? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterhill Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 ahhhh....just like the Bill....this thread had to turn political also...congrats tards Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 ahhhh....just like the Bill....this thread had to turn political also...congrats tards Quite welcome. After all it is the season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
colin Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 the mkt is reversing (about 35% or so) the moves from yesterday. perhaps the bill isn't as important as it is being made out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GG Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 the mkt is reversing (about 35% or so) the moves from yesterday. perhaps the bill isn't as important as it is being made out to be. The upswing is due to the possibility that the bill will pass in some form. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
taterhill Posted September 30, 2008 Share Posted September 30, 2008 the mkt is reversing (about 35% or so) the moves from yesterday. perhaps the bill isn't as important as it is being made out to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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