2 point conversion penalty

[TC in St. Louis]

Wisconsin ran a 2 point conversion to tie the game v. Michigan at the end of the game Saturday. They scored. A few seconds after the conclusion of the play, a flag hit the ground. Illegal formation.

 

Yesterday after the Bills scored the 2 point conversion, the same call took place. I've never seen this called before. And then I saw it twice in 2 days.

 

Also, there was a play during which penalties were called on both the offense and the defense....one was an offside v. the

Bills and a facemask v. the Rams, By Rule, they offset. But I remember in the past that By Rule, they screwed the Bills and enforced the bigger penalty. Apparently they've rewritten the rule.

[dollars 2 donuts]

Wisconsin ran a 2 point conversion to tie the game v. Michigan at the end of the game Saturday. They scored. A few seconds after the conclusion of the play, a flag hit the ground. Illegal formation.

 

Yesterday after the Bills scored the 2 point conversion, the same call took place. I've never seen this called before. And then I saw it twice in 2 days.

 

Also, there was a play during which penalties were called on both the offense and the defense....one was an offside v. the

Bills and a facemask v. the Rams, By Rule, they offset. But I remember in the past that By Rule, they screwed the Bills and enforced the bigger penalty. Apparently they've rewritten the rule.

 

 

 

Sorry, my friend, both penalties were on the Rams offense - Bills waived them both off.

 

Unless I am mistaken about which play you're referencing.

 

 

But I hear ya on your overall point.

[Lori]

Wisconsin ran a 2 point conversion to tie the game v. Michigan at the end of the game Saturday. They scored. A few seconds after the conclusion of the play, a flag hit the ground. Illegal formation.

 

Yesterday after the Bills scored the 2 point conversion, the same call took place. I've never seen this called before. And then I saw it twice in 2 days.

 

Also, there was a play during which penalties were called on both the offense and the defense....one was an offside v. the

Bills and a facemask v. the Rams, By Rule, they offset. But I remember in the past that By Rule, they screwed the Bills and enforced the bigger penalty. Apparently they've rewritten the rule.

A five and a ten offset. (And that was a hold by Pace.) Five and fifteen don't -- the fifteen-yarder is enforced. From the rulebook:

Section 3 Fouls by Both Teams

Article 1 If there is a double foul (3-11-2-c) without a change of possession, the

penalties are offset and the down is replayed at the previous spot. If it was a scrimmage

down, the number of the next down and the necessary line is the same as for the down

for which the new one is substituted.

 

Exceptions:

1) If one of the fouls is of a nature that incurs a 15-yard penalty and the other foul of a

double foul normally would result in a loss of 5 yards only (15 yards versus 5 yards),

the major penalty yardage is to be assessed from the previous spot.

[JujuFish]

Sorry, my friend, both penalties were on the Rams offense - Bills waived them both off.

 

Unless I am mistaken about which play you're referencing.

 

 

But I hear ya on your overall point.

(2:36) (Shotgun) 12-T.Green pass incomplete short right to 23-B.Leonard. Penalty on STL-76-O.Pace, Offensive Holding, offsetting, enforced at BUF 28 - No Play. Penalty on BUF-92-R.Denney, Defensive Offside, offsetting.

[ChevyVanMiller]

Sorry, my friend, both penalties were on the Rams offense - Bills waived them both off.

 

Unless I am mistaken about which play you're referencing.

 

 

But I hear ya on your overall point.

 

No, it hapened to the Bills after the Jackson TD. Called the peanlty on Royal (not covered up by WR). Bills then kicked PAT.

[dollars 2 donuts]

(2:36) (Shotgun) 12-T.Green pass incomplete short right to 23-B.Leonard. Penalty on STL-76-O.Pace, Offensive Holding, offsetting, enforced at BUF 28 - No Play. Penalty on BUF-92-R.Denney, Defensive Offside, offsetting.

 

 

 

 

Then I recind my prior post.

 

 

ALWAYS willing to admit when I'm wrong. I think.

 

 

...and the Bills are still 4-0.

[berndogg]

A five and a ten offset. (And that was a hold by Pace.) Five and fifteen don't -- the fifteen-yarder is enforced. From the rulebook:

 

I could've sworn last night philadelphia got a 5 yard illegal formation penalty and chicago got 15 yard roughing the punter penalty on the same play, and the penalties offset and they replayed 4th down from the same spot. I've played and watched football my entire life, and these offsetting penalties still confuse the heck out of me sometimes.

[Vasily Zaytsev]

I would have bootlegged!

[JujuFish]

I could've sworn last night philadelphia got a 5 yard illegal formation penalty and chicago got 15 yard roughing the punter penalty on the same play, and the penalties offset and they replayed 4th down from the same spot. I've played and watched football my entire life, and these offsetting penalties still confuse the heck out of me sometimes.

(3:47) 6-S.Rocca punts 49 yards to CHI 30, Center-46-J.Dorenbos, fair catch by 23-D.Hester. Penalty on PHI, Illegal Formation, offsetting, enforced at PHI 21 - No Play. Penalty on CHI-33-C.Tillman, Roughing the Kicker, offsetting.

[Lori]

I could've sworn last night philadelphia got a 5 yard illegal formation penalty and chicago got 15 yard roughing the punter penalty on the same play, and the penalties offset and they replayed 4th down from the same spot. I've played and watched football my entire life, and these offsetting penalties still confuse the heck out of me sometimes.

Really? I'll check that out.

 

According to the gamebook, you're correct:

4-20-PHI 21 (3:47) S.Rocca punts 49 yards to CHI 30, Center-J.Dorenbos, fair catch by D.Hester.

Penalty on PHI, Illegal Formation, offsetting, enforced at PHI 21 - No Play.

Penalty on CHI-C.Tillman, Roughing the Kicker, offsetting.

4-20-PHI 21 (3:39) S.Rocca punts 40 yards to CHI 39, Center-J.Dorenbos. D.Hester to CHI 45 for 6 yards (T.Daniels).

 

Here's the only possible answer I found in the rulebook:

Article 2 If there is a double foul (3-11-2-c) during a down in which there is a change of

possession, the team gaining possession must keep the ball after enforcement for its

foul, provided its foul occurred after the change of possession (clean hands).

Exceptions:

1) If the kickers foul during a kickoff, punt, safety kick, or field-goal attempt before possession

changes, the receivers will have the option of replaying the down at the previous

spot (offsetting fouls), or keeping the ball after enforcement for its fouls.

Guess that rules supersedes the 5/15 one? And of course, with Hester back there, Chicago is ALWAYS going to ask for a re-kick.

[JPL7]

could someone please tell me what the point of that rule is? why can the TE or tackle or whatever not be covered by a WR? what is the rule trying to prevent from happening?

[RJ (not THAT RJ)]

could someone please tell me what the point of that rule is? why can the TE or tackle or whatever not be covered by a WR? what is the rule trying to prevent from happening?

 

 

There are two related issues. One is there is a limited number of players that can be up on the line of scrimmage, and the other is that the ends must be 'covered' by eligible players. Thus a tackle cannot be left uncovered, but if you have the end already covered the receiver on that side has to be backed off the line. I was listening to the game at that point and did not see the play, but I believe that Reed needed to step back from the line to avoid the penalty. Why that one step makes a difference is because of the letter of the law.