San-O Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Edwards had to be having flashbacks to his Stanford days. St. Louis was blitzing almost non-stop and the Bills had no answer for it. No extra blocking help, no screen passes, no rollouts, etc... You can't just keep sending your QB into the pocket with a 7 step drop and hope he gets the ball away before he gets knocked down AGAIN. This O-line is still a ways off. Need to get some more horses up front. Can't run well either.
tornado681 Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Stranger, I was going to make a similar point. Would have loved to have seen BUF call some screens this game. Not sure why? Also, marks the 3rd game in a row Peters has gotten outright burned to give up a sack. At least TE didnt fumble this time... I don't think we have called a screen ALL year.
yall Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 This O-line is still a ways off. Need to get some more horses up front a real center. Can't run well either. Fixed.
John Adams Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Edwards had to be having flashbacks to his Stanford days. St. Louis was blitzing almost non-stop and the Bills had no answer for it. No extra blocking help, no screen passes, no rollouts, etc... You can't just keep sending your QB into the pocket with a 7 step drop and hope he gets the ball away before he gets knocked down AGAIN. In the 2nd half there were several rollouts (at least 2 running left oddly), several play action passes, and some screens. I think they adjusted at halftime, but I agree with your point. They were coming hard. Part of the problem--maybe the biggest part--is that the guards have to help Fowler so much that there isn't a lot of help there to catch the blitzing LBs and DEs who beat the tackle. The Long sack is a perfect example of the later. Long fakes Peters out of his jock by making a step upfield then moving inside..Dockery was already so far over helping Fowler that there was a cavernous hole for Long to rush untouched to Edwards. Fowler is really, really, really bad.
Fan in San Diego Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 We have to protect better and it has to be a concern if we want to keep TE on the playing field. I blame some of the problems on Jason Peters not being up to speed yet. I'm not so sure screens are going to work very well because we are not spreading the field out enough to begin with and teams are wise to our dink and dunk approach. Shonert realizes that and is trying to counter it the best he can, but until the O-line plays better we will struggle regardless of how many talented athletes we are putting on the field or the playcalling. Turk is getting to conservative. He needs to throw more on 1st down, and more fancier trick plays. They have been getting more vanilla each week.
Buffaloed in Pa Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 B...bu...but...I thought Peters was the guy that was gonna SAVE Edwards' life - and the Bills hopes - this season Isn't that why Russ was supposed to give 'PayMe' all that money without him even showing up for a physical or a day of work before the season started??? Yeah,howabout it. How much is old larda$$ worth now? Maybe we can get a reduction on his pay . He couldn`t make 3rd string on alot of teams right now.
ganesh Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Turk is getting to conservative. He needs to throw more on 1st down, and more fancier trick plays. They have been getting more vanilla each week. May be teams now have more game tape to watch on Trent and Turks play calling. The team will have to make the necessary adjustment and move on. May be that is why the Bills were trying to surprise the Rams by repeatedly going long in the 1s quarter. May be the Bills should continue to do what they are successful until someone shows them that it will not work, not the other way around. The Steelers won 15 games with Ben as their rookie QB by being conservative on offense and running the ball well and playing solid D and STs.
Simon Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Edwards had to be having flashbacks to his Stanford days. St. Louis was blitzing almost non-stop and the Bills had no answer for it. No extra blocking help, no screen passes, no rollouts, etc... You can't just keep sending your QB into the pocket with a 7 step drop and hope he gets the ball away before he gets knocked down AGAIN. The biggest problem I had was that at times the Rams were only sending 3 and dropping everybody else. And they were still getting licks in on Edwards. I don't know what happened to the usually stellar protection we were seeing last year.
Tcali Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 also another thing to worry about w/ edwards, is the almost total non-production the first 3 quarters of the past few games...... Well.....that is about 12% TEs fault. The rest is the abyssmal O line play.
Tcali Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Something I think we all have to remember.... Trent is still very inexperienced. He's playing very well, but... he's still not played a full season's worth of games. So, he's going to make a few mistakes, bad reads, etc. during the course of a game and the season. It should be expected to see opposing defenses throw all sorts of blitz packages and personnel packages at Trent in an attempt to confuse him. I think that's exactly what the Raiders and Rams did. To Trent's (and Schonert's) credit, he fought through it, minimized his mistakes, and made the right adjustments to come out on top in the end. This season goes as far as Trent will take us, and he's responding wonderfully. Once teams realize they can't win by blitzing and stunting like crazy, the line will look alot better. They are blowing right past fatso on the left and fatso on the right even when they aren't blitzing.
ax4782 Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Turk is getting to conservative. He needs to throw more on 1st down, and more fancier trick plays. They have been getting more vanilla each week. You mean like that 49 yard throw on the first play of the game?
Punch Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 In the big picture, though, these things happen and I'm very pleased with Trent's recognition (even if we don't take into account that he's just started game 13 of his career). Remember how often we'd (and I'm referring to JP supporters from the past few seasons, a group in which I participated) make comments like this to justfiy JP's struggles? For the record, I do believe those were justifiable struggles for a young QB so early in his career--- but that's what makes this season and this group so special. Trent is well ahead of the curve at perhaps the most difficult "mental" position in the game. And it's not only Trent. The light has come on for the team as a whole in so many ways. It just came to mind when I was reading this post, and I think it's fun to reflect on how far they've come as a team from the head scratching/smashing ineptitude of the last decade. I know this season is only 4 games old and an awful lot can change in a single heartbeat--- but doesn't it seem like eons ago the Bills couldn't do anything right?
Bill from NYC Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 The biggest problem I had was that at times the Rams were only sending 3 and dropping everybody else. And they were still getting licks in on Edwards. I don't know what happened to the usually stellar protection we were seeing last year. Several things imo. For one thing, even though we beat some teams that had injuries, I have seen lots of very good DEs lining up against the Bills. In fact, there seemed to be at least one every week. Obviously, the Peters holdout didn't help at all, but I am sure that if he stays healthy, this problem will soon solve itself. Also Simon, the fact is that this is the path we chose. I want to make it clear to you and everyone else that as we speak, it looks like Jauron and Levy might made a good move to devote 5 draft picks in 3 years (in the first 4 rounds) to defensive backs, including a #8 and a #11. After all, MaGee is hurt, and they have a decent prospect to throw in. Please believe me; I am being serious. As much as I opposed it, it is working now. That said, things change in the NFL. You think the OL looks weak now? Let Dockery go out and we have some serious problems. There will not be a good prospect to insert. Chambers looks very good against the pass. So good, I wish they would rip up his contract and keep him (he is soon to be a ufa). Still, while certain posters (NOT YOU) are blasting Peters, many forget the fact that he is a dominant run blocker. Is Chambers? Btw, Jason's speed will return with conditioning, and he will once again dominate against the pass. A few years ago, the Bills had a dominant group of LBs going into a game against Tampa Bay. Lori remembers this. Cowart looked all world. Then, he got hurt, and so did virtually every other LB on the team. Good units can go south in a hurry. In order to fortify the secondary, the Bills had to cut back somewhere. In 3 years, Jauron/Levy allocated one 5th and one 7th round draft pick to the OL. Again, it is working really well so far. Maybe they were right. We are 4-0, and there is nobody happier than me. Nobody. Still, Fowler looks pretty awful from where I sit, and Butler had 2 bad games. I am high on Walker, but he got killed on Sunday. Count me as one who thinks that the current OL, if healthy, is good enough to take this team to the playoffs. Are the Cards supposed to scare me more than any other team? No? Then we have a chance to walk into the bye at 5-0! Still, I truly do hope that the Bills devote the next draft to bringing some good players on both sides of the line. A TE would be nice too before Royal causes me to have a stroke with those hands of his. GO BILLS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sen. John Blutarsky Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 I don't think we have called a screen ALL year. We killed Jax with screens. Especially on third down. This game reeked of a game where Turk was trying to get by without showing too much of his offense to keep it off tape for later in the year. We were exceedingly vanilla and we got away with it. It's smart if you can pull it off. Why show everyone the whole arsenal to beat an inferior team?
Fan in San Diego Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 You mean like that 49 yard throw on the first play of the game? Of course that was a good one, but there are too many 1st down run plays that plow into the middle of the defense. Lets get some screens or reverses or counter trays going. Turks getting a little predicable. Run run pass wont get it done.
bizell Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Of course that was a good one, but there are too many 1st down run plays that plow into the middle of the defense. Lets get some screens or reverses or counter trays going. Turks getting a little predicable. Run run pass wont get it done. according to the splits on his player page http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=10536 , trent has passed the most times on first down compared to any other. 1st-44 2nd-41 3rd-33 4th-1
Fan in San Diego Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 according to the splits on his player page http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/players/splits?playerId=10536 , trent has passed the most times on first down compared to any other. 1st-44 2nd-41 3rd-33 4th-1 The first few games Turk was passing more on 1st down and it was working. This last game he has become more run run pass and it's to predictable. Do they have the stats for just the last game?
DrFishfinder Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 FWIW, Vic Carucci stated on the postgame show that the Bills want to throw deep on opposing team blitzes making them pay for the extra pressure. I have no idea if his opinion is informed but he made it sound like this was straight from the horses mouth. ....that would require some pass protection from the blitz.....unless I am missing something really obvious here. In the Saint Looey game the only one who paid for the extra pressure was Edwards. The blitz protection scheme was.....well.....it wasn't. I've kept repeating this, but it looked to me like the Bills pass protection locked on players, not position or direction.l
Mickey Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 Edwards had to be having flashbacks to his Stanford days. St. Louis was blitzing almost non-stop and the Bills had no answer for it. No extra blocking help, no screen passes, no rollouts, etc... You can't just keep sending your QB into the pocket with a 7 step drop and hope he gets the ball away before he gets knocked down AGAIN. The running game has struggled and when that happens, you end up in predictable situations where the defense can tee off. That results in pressure on the QB. Throwing a 5 yarder to a hot read on 3rd and 9 isn't the answer. They need to get some yards on first down, running, throwing, however. Do that and suddenly the defense has to play you honest because then that 5 yard hot read gets you the first down.
Mickey Posted September 30, 2008 Posted September 30, 2008 ....that would require some pass protection from the blitz.....unless I am missing something really obvious here. In the Saint Looey game the only one who paid for the extra pressure was Edwards. The blitz protection scheme was.....well.....it wasn't. I've kept repeating this, but it looked to me like the Bills pass protection locked on players, not position or direction.l I think Trent addressed this in his post game when he said they kept some extra people in and moved the pocket around in the second half which, given the points we scored, worked pretty well.
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