marauderswr80 Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 I was going to ask this myself, but.....man, our OL run blocking is terrible. I mean terrible!
Reed83HOF Posted September 29, 2008 Author Posted September 29, 2008 After seeing the effort that Lynch is putting in this season I don't know how anyone could make this assertion. While Jackson is a good RB and a wonderful player and makes a great contribution to the team. Lynch has exceptional talent and puts in maximum effort on every play. He has the potential to be a hall of fame caliber player as a starting RB. Jackson has the potential to have a long and productive NFL career as a role player. On a side note did you also think Frank Reich was a better QB than Jim Kelly? Easy Doc...I never said I thought Freddie was better than Marshawn...I simply asked a question to see what others thought...and provided some discussion points... I think they both bring a different element to the game and it helps keep teams off balance...I think they both play well... This is a team game and this truly is a team. I like what both bring to the table and as The Dean said - they are one helluva tandem. Marshawn is one helluva beast.... Oh to answer your question.... Yes Frank Reich was a better QB than Jim Kelly.... IN the Wildcard game against the Oilers (Yes I know JK didn't play)
Reed83HOF Posted September 29, 2008 Author Posted September 29, 2008 I was going to ask this myself, but.....man, our OL run blocking is terrible. I mean terrible! It is really bad.... But it can only get better....right?
clownments22 Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Fred is great in space and receiving, but as far as a normal run straight up the middle off left guard, he's usually not as successful. Marshawn can be much more effective grinding out the tough yards in the middle, and he's got a nose for the endzone. Freddie had a great run today that energized the team and really lifted us up when we needed it, and that was huge, but it was also atypical given the situation. The run blocking was excellent on that play and he made a great move to freeze the cornerback which assured him the goal line. I think the coaching staff tends to be a little more creative with the plays run to Fred, because with Marshawn they know they can just have him run straight up the middle and he'll be successful for 4 to 5 yards consistently.
BillZerk Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 They are complimentary. Both valuable, both key contributors. It is great to have both. Although their running styles are different it seems like they both fit within the offensive scheme. Both can catch well out of the backfield. Marshawn clearly is more shifty laterally and more powerful, I think Freddie is better in space. Freddie is more subtle and uses pauses and shoulder leans to set up his move while Marshawn is a dervish of pumping churning legs and power.
GripnRip Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Jackson is nowhere near the physically gifted runner that Marshawn is. Jacksons success running the ball in relation to Lynch is partially due to the fact he is on the field more in passing packages and is perceived as more of a passing threat. If Lynch was to get hurt and Jackson was given the load on 1st down vs 7 and 8 man fronts you would clearly be able to see the difference. Like many others have said though, who cares, they compliment each other great and we're making it work.
YOOOOOO Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 its alot easier to get yardage when your fresh, going into the 2nd half.....
who-that-girl Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Let me say this - I love both of our backs. They are a great tandem... I know I may get flamed for this; but why does Freddie seem to rip bigger runs off than Marshawn? Do teams focus less on Freddie? Does the O-line block better? I know Marshawn has more attempts, it just seems that Freddie does more with his opportunities than Marshawn....Lynch gets a ton of 3 or 4 yds runs and Freddie always seems to rip a long one... Thoughts? Because Jackson can run north/south and Lynch can't. I love Lynch for his strength but he will never be a "great" back just "good"... Don't believe me about the north/south...watch next game. Its not a line issue its a Lynch/RB coach issue
keepthefaith Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 They are complimentary. Both valuable, both key contributors. It is great to have both. Although their running styles are different it seems like they both fit within the offensive scheme. Both can catch well out of the backfield. Marshawn clearly is more shifty laterally and more powerful, I think Freddie is better in space. Freddie is more subtle and uses pauses and shoulder leans to set up his move while Marshawn is a dervish of pumping churning legs and power. Gotta hand it to Marv. When Jackson was signed, it looked like Marv was trying to help out his fellow Coe graduate. Jackson has proved to be very deserving of the opportunity.
StupidNation Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Because Jackson can run north/south and Lynch can't. I love Lynch for his strength but he will never be a "great" back just "good"... Don't believe me about the north/south...watch next game. Its not a line issue its a Lynch/RB coach issue Lynch has those large side-steps that he does that are long and drawn out and hurt him. Jackson is quicker and faster and doesn't move east-west, but certainly not as powerful as Lynch who is outstanding with his power. I believe Jackson is more talented (flame away) and has superior vision and watches his blockers more. Lynch will never be "great", but very much above average to good. I really believe Jackson could not take an entire 16 game work-load, Lynch can. We are lucky to have a good combo, but I believe Jackson is better and would get more yards and scares D's a lot more with versatility. No one fear Lynch breaking one in the back-field at this point, D's don't know if Jackson will be lined up behind Edwards or split out wide where he's uncoverable as a WR to a LB. Running hard and like a "beast" is great, but that doesn't make him better. One of the best runners I've seen was Priest Holmes who just watched his blockers and knew how to hit holes. Nothing fancy, but he knew how to make plays.
Steely Dan Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Because Jackson can run north/south and Lynch can't. I love Lynch for his strength but he will never be a "great" back just "good"... Don't believe me about the north/south...watch next game. Its not a line issue its a Lynch/RB coach issue
Ralonzo Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 No. Here's how it is. Freddy makes a guy miss, then maybe makes another guy miss, and gets tackled. Marshawn runs over someone, makes a guy miss, makes another guy miss, runs over someone else, makes yet another guy miss, then gets tackled. Marshawn is the man. Freddy is the able understudy.
Hossage Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 As a former tailback I know what every one of marshawns runs look like; I have run them all a hundred times at least. I think marshawn gives away his advantages in many different ways. Firstly, he is impatient. He does not stay in position behind his blockers in order to threaten the defense with the cutback and tends to make outside runs very shallow. When he does this he cannot freeze a defender with the threat of getting a full head of steam and running over them, nor can he threaten a cutback. Jackson makes the runs look the way Vince Lombardi ran them. He often runs at a defender and then slows down in front of them. He then uses his quick feet and strength to wrestle through the guy and often looks spectacular doing it. If the defender knows you will not run straight at them travis henry style, then they can break down in front of you and defend against a change of direction. Marshawn is not fast. Lets say it: he takes four strides to cover five yards at full speed. That is an incredibly, abnormally small stride length. He does not have speed defenders need to be aware of before they fly in in an overly aggressive manner. I realize the combine was a year and a half ago for him, but his weightlifting numbers were pathetic. I am four inches taller than he is and the same weight and I can lift as much as he can. I have a little fat roll and dont work out very hard. We dont use marshawn correctly. Our zone blocking scheme favors a small, low, cutback style back with good vision like Mojo. Lynch's strength is getting into small holes and getting tough yards in traffic. We should use him like the cowboys used emmit smith. We should not encourage him to run east and west by running 26 zone blocked so much. When he runs plays to the outside he should sprint for the hole instead of pick his way there so the linebackers can catch up. He is great on screens Freddy does everything right that lynch does wrong. He looks like a classic style tailback in the mold of curtis martin. He is going to break bigger runs and average more yards per carry. Remember that he is 220 and puts bigger hits on defenders than lynch when he has a full head of steam. He is easier to wrap on inside runs, where we shoud prefer lynch. Having said all that, Lynchs positives are big ones. Lynch runs with a very low center of gravity and keeps his feet under him. He is a marvel to watch. His blocking and receiving have improved tremendously as has his strength. This is not an endorsement of Freddy and a complaint against marshawn. I feel that the different look they give the defense with their styles is effective. I would like to see freddy offset left in a flexible formation with a fullback or H back to the right and a tight end split two yards out. But i guess we have to hire joe gibbs for that. He could also be effective if we use him in the slot like the patriots use welker. They have a different style of offense, but ours is moving toward that style.
BillsWatch Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 I think Lynch is the sledge hammer and Action Jackson is the pick. The sledge hammer just keeps hitting opponent until they are sore and tired making further runs of any type easier. A pick is fine but if used too much or without using the sledge you are not likely to get far unless you hit a weak spot. Lynch is the player who makes Jackson look better.
drg2021 Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 I think Lynch is the sledge hammer and Action Jackson is the pick. The sledge hammer just keeps hitting opponent until they are sore and tired making further runs of any type easier. A pick is fine but if used too much or without using the sledge you are not likely to get far unless you hit a weak spot. Lynch is the player who makes Jackson look better. Exactly,Lynch bruises them and Jackson blows by them.
LabattBlue Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 I was going to ask this myself, but.....man, our OL run blocking is terrible. I mean terrible! The run blocking doesn't appear to have improved at all. Maybe bigger isn't better in this case.
JStranger76 Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 It's because bigger for us is mainly taller. We have a 6'6 left guard and a 6'7 right guard. Dockery is naturally wider though so he can overcome his height most of the time but Butler's height fuks him up in short yardage and drive blocking more often than not. As for Fowler, he is 6'3 and 315 lbs with is actually perfect size for a center, but he has no natural power or explosion to go with it to make him an effective run blocker and poor vs. the bullrush in pass protection as well.
JStranger76 Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 Oh, GripNRip and and G.Host explained the Lynch and Jackson thing perfectly.
BUFFALOTONE Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 jackson finds the hole a bit better and is a better pass catcher. lynch has more size, speed, cut back ability, strength, and is just plain painful to tackle. lynch has more rarer skills, but jackson is perhaps featured in our O better. now if lynch can be a better pass catcher, watch out. Lynch is not faster than Jackson.
BUFFALOTONE Posted September 29, 2008 Posted September 29, 2008 As a former tailback I know what every one of marshawns runs look like; I have run them all a hundred times at least. I think marshawn gives away his advantages in many different ways. Firstly, he is impatient. He does not stay in position behind his blockers in order to threaten the defense with the cutback and tends to make outside runs very shallow. When he does this he cannot freeze a defender with the threat of getting a full head of steam and running over them, nor can he threaten a cutback. Jackson makes the runs look the way Vince Lombardi ran them. He often runs at a defender and then slows down in front of them. He then uses his quick feet and strength to wrestle through the guy and often looks spectacular doing it. If the defender knows you will not run straight at them travis henry style, then they can break down in front of you and defend against a change of direction. Marshawn is not fast. Lets say it: he takes four strides to cover five yards at full speed. That is an incredibly, abnormally small stride length. He does not have speed defenders need to be aware of before they fly in in an overly aggressive manner. I realize the combine was a year and a half ago for him, but his weightlifting numbers were pathetic. I am four inches taller than he is and the same weight and I can lift as much as he can. I have a little fat roll and dont work out very hard. We dont use marshawn correctly. Our zone blocking scheme favors a small, low, cutback style back with good vision like Mojo. Lynch's strength is getting into small holes and getting tough yards in traffic. We should use him like the cowboys used emmit smith. We should not encourage him to run east and west by running 26 zone blocked so much. When he runs plays to the outside he should sprint for the hole instead of pick his way there so the linebackers can catch up. He is great on screens Freddy does everything right that lynch does wrong. He looks like a classic style tailback in the mold of curtis martin. He is going to break bigger runs and average more yards per carry. Remember that he is 220 and puts bigger hits on defenders than lynch when he has a full head of steam. He is easier to wrap on inside runs, where we shoud prefer lynch. Having said all that, Lynchs positives are big ones. Lynch runs with a very low center of gravity and keeps his feet under him. He is a marvel to watch. His blocking and receiving have improved tremendously as has his strength. This is not an endorsement of Freddy and a complaint against marshawn. I feel that the different look they give the defense with their styles is effective. I would like to see freddy offset left in a flexible formation with a fullback or H back to the right and a tight end split two yards out. But i guess we have to hire joe gibbs for that. He could also be effective if we use him in the slot like the patriots use welker. They have a different style of offense, but ours is moving toward that style. What flag football league do you play in?
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