Corporate tax rates under Obama

[EC-Bills]

McCain talked about dropping the corporate tax rate from 35%. He cites Ireland as a country with a 11% tax rate and explained that the lower tax rate makes it for more appealing for corporations to go overseas.

 

Barack countered that through the current loopholes that American coporations are actually paying a lower tax rate . Barack then says he wants to close those loopholes.

 

Say you close these loopholes, then the American coprate tax rate will actually be 35% and you have made no mention of then dropping the tax rate. Why would corporations want to stick around and pay that rate when they can pay a lower rate elsewhere?

 

Brilliant.

[StupidNation]

Punish hard work and creativity.

 

Good recipe for success in the country. Did I mention that many good profitable business are going to China? What a coincidence.

[Max Fischer]

McCain talked about dropping the corporate tax rate from 35%. He cites Ireland as a country with a 11% tax rate and explained that the lower tax rate makes it for more appealing for corporations to go overseas.

 

Barack countered that through the current loopholes that American coporations are actually paying a lower tax rate . Barack then says he wants to close those loopholes.

 

Say you close these loopholes, then the American coprate tax rate will actually be 35% and you have made no mention of then dropping the tax rate. Why would corporations want to stick around and pay that rate when they can pay a lower rate elsewhere?

 

Brilliant.

 

Because the corporate tax rate is a farce. Republicans and corporate execs complain about the high tax that very few actually pay. Middle-class taxpayers don't have the an army of accountants and loopholes to do the same.

[East Brady]

Punish hard work and creativity.

 

Good recipe for success in the country. Did I mention that many good profitable business are going to China? What a coincidence.

You forgot to mention the govt. will actually help you move the company, its good for free trade.

[Lurker]

Punish hard work and creativity.

 

Good recipe for success in the country. Did I mention that many good profitable business are going to China? What a coincidence.

You really are a poster child for your name. It's the effective tax rate (where the U.S. is 4th lowest amoung the 30 OECD nations) that matters, not the statutory rate...

[Pine Barrens Mafia]

You really are a poster child for your name. It's the effective tax rate (where the U.S. is 4th lowest amoung the 30 OECD nations) that matters, not the statutory rate...

 

So RAISING the corporate tax rate will IMPROVE the outflow of manufacturing jobs?

 

Explain.

[gmac17]

Because the corporate tax rate is a farce. Republicans and corporate execs complain about the high tax that very few actually pay. Middle-class taxpayers don't have the an army of accountants and loopholes to do the same.

 

i own a small business. Do you want me to pay higher taxes or lower taxes.

 

please explain.

[Lurker]

So RAISING the corporate tax rate will IMPROVE the outflow of manufacturing jobs?

 

Explain.

So is the middle class homeowner going to bear an increasing share of the total tax levy ad infinitum?

 

The share of taxes paid by Fortune 1000 corporations has declined almost annually over the last 8 years (due to the ability to shield income through all manner of tax breaks) and that doesn't seem to have stemmed the loss in factory jobs (which have gone offshore due more to wage differentials than tax burden).

 

I'm not a tax and spend liberal. But exactly WHEN is the middle class taxpayer going to get some relief, if you keep shifting more and more of the burden to them?

[gmac17]

I'm not a tax and spend liberal. But exactly WHEN is the middle class taxpayer going to get some relief, if you keep shifting more and more of the burden to them?

 

do you think the middle class is paying more now than they were 8 years ago? Corporations may not be paying more either, but I don't think the middle class is either.

 

luckily, deficit spending solves everything

[finknottle]

So what exactly is the Obama position for keeping American business competative?

 

- Close the loop-holes so that our companies pay a higher tax rate than European ones?

 

- Keep things the same, so that our economic trajectory stays on it's current wildly-successfull course?

 

- Or lower the rates on companies, so that this is a more attractive place to set up a company than Europe?

 

Which is it?

[molson_golden2002]

So what exactly is the Obama position for keeping American business competative?

 

- Close the loop-holes so that our companies pay a higher tax rate than European ones?

 

- Keep things the same, so that our economic trajectory stays on it's current wildly-successfull course?

 

- Or lower the rates on companies, so that this is a more attractive place to set up a company than Europe?

 

Which is it?

 

 

I can't believe you guys are now saying a small tax increase will make us less attractive than socialist Europe, home of Socialized medicine, long vacations and no fire policies.

 

I mean come on

[finknottle]

I can't believe you guys are now saying a small tax increase will make us less attractive than socialist Europe, home of Socialized medicine, long vacations and no fire policies.

 

I mean come on

 

I'm not. I'm simply asking what Obama's views are with regard to our business competativeness. Do our companies need to be more competative, can they afford to be less competative, or are things good the way they are? And if competativeness doesn't hinge on corporate tax rates, what does he think is more important for giving our companies an advantage?

 

Obama does have an opinion, right?

[molson_golden2002]

I'm not. I'm simply asking what Obama's views are with regard to our business competativeness. Do our companies need to be more competative, can they afford to be less competative, or are things good the way they are? And if competativeness doesn't hinge on corporate tax rates, what does he think is more important for giving our companies an advantage?

Obama does have an opinion, right?

If I was answering for him, I'd say it was things that helped business operate efficiently and with as little hassle as possible. An educated work force, modern infrastructure and cheap utilities

[PastaJoe]

Punish hard work and creativity.

 

Good recipe for success in the country. Did I mention that many good profitable business are going to China? What a coincidence.

 

So you're admitting that the current tax rates that were lowered under Bush have not prevented companies from going overseas, so taxes are not the reason they're leaving. Labor costs and environmental regulations are key factors, and Obama wants to negotiate trade deals that raise labor and envirormental standards overseas, not lower them in our country. Level the playing field for our workers, and our workers productivity will be an incentive to stay.

[finknottle]

If I was answering for him, I'd say it was things that helped business operate efficiently and with as little hassle as possible. An educated work force, modern infrastructure and cheap utilities

 

So you/Obama would say to companies "to make you more competative I'm going to keep your taxes the same, but I'll reduce regulation, turn around the schools, pay for infrastructure (presumably not taxing business?), and lower your utility rates?"

 

I'm not knocking the approach, but even if the government came through on them all, it would be more than a decade before they impacted business. Better schools... Capital improvements... new sources and distribution of power... these things don't happen overnight, so you can expect the business climate and outlook to remain essentially unchanged in an Obama administration.

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

It is an interesting argument on both sides. I think from an economies of scale kind of thing there should be a tiered tax scheme similar to income for small businesses. As businesses get going, often up front taxes... mostly state and local taxes are onerous. I think McCain's idea of taxing group health care benefits is stupid and is a defacto increase in taxes on businesses and individuals.

 

Obama's closing of tax loopholes should also accompany and reduction in the rates. Politically it would be a great thing and would still end up as an increase in revenue, but he could claim simplification and the Washington double speak of cutting rates. But alas, each side is caught up in their own dogma.

 

Larger corporations that have a history of shipping or ship jobs overseas should pay a tax penalty. Another Populist flag waving deal for one of these politicians. Obama and McCain have both paid some lip service to this idea, but have been very shallow in specifics. Probably because they could run afoul of trade treaties and agreements.

[PastaJoe]

So you/Obama would say to companies "to make you more competative I'm going to keep your taxes the same, but I'll reduce regulation, turn around the schools, pay for infrastructure (presumably not taxing business?), and lower your utility rates?"

 

I'm not knocking the approach, but even if the government came through on them all, it would be more than a decade before they impacted business. Better schools... Capital improvements... new sources and distribution of power... these things don't happen overnight, so you can expect the business climate and outlook to remain essentially unchanged in an Obama administration.

 

The same argument can be made regarding offshore drilling, but the pro-drilling argument has been that we have to start sometime, and it would show a committment that may change perceptions and speculation.

[finknottle]

The same argument can be made regarding offshore drilling, but the pro-drilling argument has been that we have to start sometime, and it would show a committment that may change perceptions and speculation.

 

Agreed. The only significant difference is that psychology can effect oil prices, as they are driven partly by future expectations, but it won't effect current bottom-lines.

 

(In fact, a better analogy would be this: setting all this stuff in place won't effect the profitability of a company for decades, but the improved long-term outlook would effect the stock price favorably.)

[blzrul]

Agreed. The only significant difference is that psychology can effect oil prices, as they are driven partly by future expectations, but it won't effect current bottom-lines.

 

(In fact, a better analogy would be this: setting all this stuff in place won't effect the profitability of a company for decades, but the improved long-term outlook would effect the stock price favorably.)

Economy in a nutshell: perception and the resultant fear, or optimism ... is what drives the markets. Every so often though a dose of reality comes along and the ride gets rough.

[Lurker]

do you think the middle class is paying more now than they were 8 years ago? Corporations may not be paying more either, but I don't think the middle class is either.

Here's one analysis from the CBO. I'll try to find something more current as well.

 

Gotta love this passage in the article:

 

"The analysis, requested in May by congressional Democrats, echoes similar studies by think tanks and Democratic activist groups. But the conclusions have heightened significance because of their source, a nonpartisan government agency headed by a former senior economist from the Bush White House, Douglas Holtz-Eakin. The study will likely stoke an already burning debate about the fairness and efficacy of $1.7 trillion in tax cuts that the president pushed through Congress. "