StupidNation Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 And it'll play to the voters, no matter who does it. The amount of misinformation and ignorance floating around about what's happening on is stunning. And if the credit markets AREN'T bailed out, who's going to suffer? The rich, with cash reserves to fall back on? Or the middle class and poor, who use credit to leverage cash flow? The working-class statements of "They're bailing out the oligarchy at my expense!" that I've been hearing all day are laughable. If you do bail it out it will prolong the crisis and make it WORSE for main st long term. No one thinks long term, they only think about next week, and that's the problem with democracy as it's all about timing and fear. What's needed is leadership and vision and people don't vote for those issues. Read the Greek philosophers on the problems with democracy and it's being played before our eyes. Sure everyone will suffer, but preventing bad debt from being liquidating by continued inflation still leaves the bad debt out there only to be liquidated slowly while simultaneously destroying the dollar. If that happens it will be worse. Complain it will be bad for 1 or 2 years, or complain it will be bad for the next 10 years. Bad debt is still bad debt and it has to be liquidated. You are postponing the inevitable and making it worse for everyone. If the U.S losses A credit ratings, which will happen, how do think we can pay for any of these liberal programs that are only perpetuated because of debt schemes. You are watching the end of U.S economic dominance by China, and it's all bought and paid for by big interests in big with banks and gov't. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 did he read it yet? Guess this is the new talking point? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Just to make sure that I'm labeled a Rep shill for continuing this topic, but most of the top bankers & traders at Bear & Lehman will land just fine. The support staff who really need the jobs, may not. But hey, let's dance on the companies' graveyards. For sure. The economic rent is just too high. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted September 25, 2008 Share Posted September 25, 2008 Sadly, the same situation is true for Obama: if he came out against the bill, it would not be passed. But since he seems content to accept whatever they come up with based on the Bush proposal, he avoids taking any responsibility for whether the legislation is good or bad, or whether something or nothing is passed. Sounds like his entire political career. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meazza Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 http://www.ft.com/cms/s/0/f19451ac-8b39-11...00779fd18c.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 bull sh--. Obama has at the very least read Bush's plan, and you can bet he's more on top of what Congress is negotiating than McCain. McCain has already admitted he didn't read the Bush plan. If he's not going to take the time to read a three page document, then you can be sure he's not interested in being briefed on the Congressional plan, especially if he's only breezing into town for a photo op and to spoon Lieberman. At this point he's going to try and monkeywrench any plan, as having no legislation gets him out of the debate and looking even more clueless and out of it than he already does. Spooning with Lieberman. Wow. Such passion for Obama, a man that you dont even know. I wont defend McCain, nor will he get my vote. You sir are King of the Kool Aid drinkers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
molson_golden2002 Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Spooning with Lieberman. Wow. Such passion for Obama, a man that you dont even know. I wont defend McCain, nor will he get my vote. You sir are King of the Kool Aid drinkers. It's easy being a gadfly, isn't it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Spooning with Lieberman. Wow. Such passion for Obama, a man that you dont even know. I wont defend McCain, nor will he get my vote. You sir are King of the Kool Aid drinkers. Nope. Passion for the country I love and the direction I want it to go in. I believe Obama is the candidate that comes closest to my positions on a majority of the issues. I don't believe McCain is going to be good for this country, or the world for that matter, and I don't want a person with the views Palin has anywhere near the White House. I'm not drinking any Koolaid. I am probably one of the most informed voters that frequents this message board. You don't like my politics, nor the views I have, nor do we share the same ideas as to what direction we'd like to see this country take a step in. But accusing me of being a lemming couldn't be further from the truth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pBills Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 And from my viewpoint McCain doesn't really give a crap about labor. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 But accusing me of being a lemming couldn't be further from the truth. The truth hurts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 The truth hurts. Good one. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 Good one. It is what it is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
erynthered Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 It's easy being a gadfly, isn't it? Its easy for you to act retarded, isnt it? Drink up snapperhead!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted September 26, 2008 Share Posted September 26, 2008 I think I'm going to try a little experiment on Monday. When I bought the house I am in now, Wells Fargo (the mortgagor) "threw in" a 50k line of credit. I didn't want it but figured oh what the hell, it's not costing me anything. Every year I get a bill for $75 fee for the account. Every year I call them and tell them to close the account. They waive the fee, and we go on this way until the next bill comes. Oh, well except for that one year I DEMANDED to close it, they bounced me around, put me on hold and then disconnected me. So I sent a registered letter telling them I knew darned well they were trying to avoid my cancelling the account...and they waived the fee but didn't close the account. So Monday I think I'll call them and ask what I have to do to get my $50k. I am not going to take it, but it will be interesting to see whether they've frozen it or not. Given my experience I can see how people got snookered. Luckily I am not in need of the money, nor am I greedy or financially irresponsible. Otherwise I would probably living in a cardboard box somewhere watching politicians bail out the guys who convinced me I could afford the loan in the first place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 I think I'm going to try a little experiment on Monday. When I bought the house I am in now, Wells Fargo (the mortgagor) "threw in" a 50k line of credit. I didn't want it but figured oh what the hell, it's not costing me anything. Every year I get a bill for $75 fee for the account. Every year I call them and tell them to close the account. They waive the fee, and we go on this way until the next bill comes. Oh, well except for that one year I DEMANDED to close it, they bounced me around, put me on hold and then disconnected me. So I sent a registered letter telling them I knew darned well they were trying to avoid my cancelling the account...and they waived the fee but didn't close the account. So Monday I think I'll call them and ask what I have to do to get my $50k. I am not going to take it, but it will be interesting to see whether they've frozen it or not. Given my experience I can see how people got snookered. Luckily I am not in need of the money, nor am I greedy or financially irresponsible. Otherwise I would probably living in a cardboard box somewhere watching politicians bail out the guys who convinced me I could afford the loan in the first place. Wells Fargo froze a LOT of HELOCs, I know (ours is with Wells, wife is close with a lot of the people in their mortgage department), and they may not have the cash available to hand out right now. On the other hand...maybe they want the cash flow, and they'll see you as a good risk (clearly they don't know you're a raving lunatic like we do, evil B word snake woman). I'll be interested to hear what happens. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 Wells Fargo froze a LOT of HELOCs, I know (ours is with Wells, wife is close with a lot of the people in their mortgage department), and they may not have the cash available to hand out right now. On the other hand...maybe they want the cash flow, and they'll see you as a good risk (clearly they don't know you're a raving lunatic like we do, evil B word snake woman). I'll be interested to hear what happens. Well then perhaps they'd like to borrow the cash from me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DC Tom Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 Well then perhaps they'd like to borrow the cash from me. Oh, they will. They will. Part of that $700B is yours... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
blzrul Posted September 27, 2008 Share Posted September 27, 2008 Oh, they will. They will. Part of that $700B is yours... but mostly my kids' and grandkids'. trying to explain how things work to my husband over dinner tonight took me two glasses of merlot. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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