Why Should The American People Trust Bush/McCain

[ExiledInIllinois]

Fine. Why do you call this the Bush/McCain plan, and not the Bush/Obama plan? As far as I can tell, it is Obama and his apologists that think the proper role is to sit back and support whatever comes out.

 

Hey, they didn't create this mess... It is on the Republican watch... And right now Obama is not President.

 

Dude... Let me slow it down for you.

 

Bush plan

 

McCain stops campaign to make sure plan is pushed and passed.

 

Bush=McCain

 

Obama sits back and wins... Then pushes his policies.

 

Remember BUSH BAD!

 

[Chilly]

Hey, they didn't create this mess... It is on the Republican watch... And right now Obama is not President.

 

Dude... Let me slow it down for you.

 

Bush plan

 

McCain stops campaign to make sure plan is pushed and passed.

 

Bush=McCain

 

Obama sits back and wins... Then pushes his policies.

 

Remember BUSH BAD!

 

 

You realize that McCain is opposed to parts of the bill, right?

[GG]

Of course, that is how the system has always worked--the weak are weeded out in downturns. I know this is no typical downturn (it's the "perfect storm" of downturns), and I have not argued against this latest phase of bailing out Wall Street; I just don't think it is the be all end all either--I do believe you need to do something to stop the downward spiral in real estate, otherwise those assets that aren't purchased and look good now, won't be later. As I said, each time the bandaid gets bigger. Do you think this will end it?

 

Don't know if it will. But I can tell you that I've never seen events unfold like this in the credit markets that I've seen in the last week. Wasn't working in the '70s, but '91 wasn't anything like this, '01 wasn't anything like this. There's general fear that banks won't fund commitments, so some companies are borrowing against their lines. Unless you're A1/P1 commercial paper issuer, the market is basically shut - putting more pressure on banks to provide working capital, which they don't want to do.

 

So, there's a chance all of this blows over. But with the clouds starting to form over the banks, no one is brave enough to test it.

[Johnny Coli]

You realize that McCain is opposed to parts of the bill, right?

Does anyone really believe McCain's even read any incarnation of either Bush's three-page money-grab or the bipartisan solution just worked out?

 

There's one thing McCain is watching, and that's the insta-polls that will pop up once the details of the Congess plan are unveiled. If a majority of Americans don't think it's a good deal, then McCain will deem it bad and you'll see a press conference with him saying he won't support it. He won't give any specifcs as to what he doesn't like about it (because it would be painfully obvious he had never read it), and I can guarantee he won't answer any questions. He'll trot out his bogus line about how he's the only one standing up for the working man, how he's the maverick voting against the grain. He'll storm into the session just to vote "nay," then disappear as quickly as the last camera flash fades. Another shameless political stunt.

[erynthered]

Or..........

 

 

 

 

There's one thing Obama is watching, and that's the insta-polls that will pop up once the details of the Congess plan are unveiled. If a majority of Americans don't think it's a good deal, then Obama will deem it bad and you'll see a press conference with him saying he won't support it. He won't give any specifcs as to what he doesn't like about it (because it would be painfully obvious he had never read it), and I can guarantee he won't answer any questions. He'll trot out his bogus line about how he's the only one standing up for the working man, how he's the maverick voting against the grain. He'll storm into the session just to vote "nay," then disappear as quickly as the last camera flash fades. Another shameless political stunt.

 

 

 

Its all the same. Both sides pull the same shiit.

[DC Tom]

Or..........

 

 

 

 

There's one thing Obama is watching, and that's the insta-polls that will pop up once the details of the Congess plan are unveiled. If a majority of Americans don't think it's a good deal, then Obama will deem it bad and you'll see a press conference with him saying he won't support it. He won't give any specifcs as to what he doesn't like about it (because it would be painfully obvious he had never read it), and I can guarantee he won't answer any questions. He'll trot out his bogus line about how he's the only one standing up for the working man, how he's the maverick voting against the grain. He'll storm into the session just to vote "nay," then disappear as quickly as the last camera flash fades. Another shameless political stunt.

 

 

 

Its all the same. Both sides pull the same shiit.

 

And it'll play to the voters, no matter who does it. The amount of misinformation and ignorance floating around about what's happening on is stunning.

 

And if the credit markets AREN'T bailed out, who's going to suffer? The rich, with cash reserves to fall back on? Or the middle class and poor, who use credit to leverage cash flow? The working-class statements of "They're bailing out the oligarchy at my expense!" that I've been hearing all day are laughable.

[GG]

The working-class statements of "They're bailing out the oligarchy at my expense!" that I've been hearing all day are laughable.

 

Maybe because it was the opening line of every single Congressman at yesterday's & Tuesday's hearings?

[Chilly]

Does anyone really believe McCain's even read any incarnation of either Bush's three-page money-grab or the bipartisan solution just worked out?

 

There's one thing McCain is watching, and that's the insta-polls that will pop up once the details of the Congess plan are unveiled. If a majority of Americans don't think it's a good deal, then McCain will deem it bad and you'll see a press conference with him saying he won't support it. He won't give any specifcs as to what he doesn't like about it (because it would be painfully obvious he had never read it), and I can guarantee he won't answer any questions. He'll trot out his bogus line about how he's the only one standing up for the working man, how he's the maverick voting against the grain. He'll storm into the session just to vote "nay," then disappear as quickly as the last camera flash fades. Another shameless political stunt.

 

Does anyone really believe Obama even read any incarnation of either Bush's three-page money-grab of the bipartisan solution just worked out?

 

They have lots of people employed for a reason.

[DC Tom]

Maybe because it was the opening line of every single Congressman at yesterday's & Tuesday's hearings?

 

While taking their campaign donations from those same people they publicly decry in the interest of "protecting" the little guy. !@#$ing moronic pieces of sh--. I can't believe this is the "leadership" we turn to.

[meazza]

And it'll play to the voters, no matter who does it. The amount of misinformation and ignorance floating around about what's happening on is stunning.

 

And if the credit markets AREN'T bailed out, who's going to suffer? The rich, with cash reserves to fall back on? Or the middle class and poor, who use credit to leverage cash flow? The working-class statements of "They're bailing out the oligarchy at my expense!" that I've been hearing all day are laughable.

 

Of course if it were a bailout for the rich, the CEO's of these companies would still have their jobs, the bonuses would be huge in December and investment banking wouldn't basically cease to exist as a single entity.

 

What people don't realize is that this is simply a lending hand for firms to sustain their cash flows so they don't go belly up.

[DC Tom]

Of course if it were a bailout for the rich, the CEO's of these companies would still have their jobs, the bonuses would be huge in December and investment banking wouldn't basically cease to exist as a single entity.

 

What people don't realize is that this is simply a lending hand for firms to sustain their cash flows so they don't go belly up.

 

...and take the rest of us with them.

 

 

As I keep saying, if this were just about the firms, I'd say "!@#$ 'em".

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

This isn't just a Wall Street problem...I've heard two stories today of car dealerships shutting down for lack of credit. We're starting to see the local implications of illiquidity. If they waste time arguing in DC about foreclosure protection for the lower middle class, it'll be a moot point.

as an aside, I was prowling through the local auto row looking for a car for my daughter. The Chevy dealer - row after row of Suburbans, Tahoes, Silverados, and Avalanches. The Ford dealer - Expeditions, Explorers, F150s, and a hodgepodge of other SUVs and pickups. The Chrysler dealer - at least 50 Grand Cherokees, full sized RAM pickups and SUVs, et al. Literally millions of dollars worth of inventory sitting there collecting dust, Employee Pricing for Everyone not withstanding. I guess what I'm saying is the closing of dealerships is probably just as closely related to cash flow as the credit market.

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

You realize that McCain is opposed to parts of the bill, right?

did he read it yet?

[stuckincincy]

Bush is a pathalogical liar.

 

Paint the picture for me, if the networks announced a Bush victory 2 hours instead of one hour before the polls closed, changing voter turnout, and Gore was handed a win. Don't speak of popular vote - the Electoral College was put into the constitution for obvious reason - and if any Dem hangs his hat on the popular vote, they need to explain why Hillary isn't their Presidential candidate. I'm sure you are aware of the effect of the tv crowd's talking heads and coverage on voter turnout, and that it caused them to put their tail between their network legs the next year and halt their premature ejaculations until polls are officially closed.

 

 

Give me your scenario of an 8-year Gore Administration.

 

No doubt you've seen film of his rants, and possibly his BS movie, his huge "carbon footprint" despite his enviro-speak. Where would we be with Al? Would he have complained - unlike Bush - about poor information received from Bill's administration, leading up to 9-11? We know that some mid-level FBI person under the Clinton Adm. put the info about foreign nationals on the back burner and their airliner pilot training. But today, Bush is held responsible for the actions or inaction of any and all of the millions of folks working for the Federal government. Aren't Bill and Al culpable? Are they also responsible for the actions of every Federal employee, shouldn't they have known?

 

Why didn't the media excoriate them as they do for Bush?

 

Would Al have heeded these warnings? Followed his party shakers and movers, and went into Iraq? Was Bush a fool to believe in the intelligence collections of the Clinton Administration?

 

http://www.snopes.com/politics/war/wmdquotes.asp

 

Would Al have followed the law, as promulgated in Clinton's Iraqi Liberation Act?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iraq_Liberation_Act

[GG]

Of course if it were a bailout for the rich, the CEO's of these companies would still have their jobs, the bonuses would be huge in December and investment banking wouldn't basically cease to exist as a single entity.

 

What people don't realize is that this is simply a lending hand for firms to sustain their cash flows so they don't go belly up.

 

Just to make sure that I'm labeled a Rep shill for continuing this topic, but most of the top bankers & traders at Bear & Lehman will land just fine. The support staff who really need the jobs, may not. But hey, let's dance on the companies' graveyards.

[PastaJoe]

did he read it yet?

 

No, they sent it in an email and he didn't know how to open it.

[TPS]

Don't know if it will. But I can tell you that I've never seen events unfold like this in the credit markets that I've seen in the last week. Wasn't working in the '70s, but '91 wasn't anything like this, '01 wasn't anything like this. There's general fear that banks won't fund commitments, so some companies are borrowing against their lines. Unless you're A1/P1 commercial paper issuer, the market is basically shut - putting more pressure on banks to provide working capital, which they don't want to do.

 

So, there's a chance all of this blows over. But with the clouds starting to form over the banks, no one is brave enough to test it.

Here's an interesting perspective.

banks made bad bets?

[Johnny Coli]

Or..........

 

 

 

 

There's one thing Obama is watching, and that's the insta-polls that will pop up once the details of the Congess plan are unveiled. If a majority of Americans don't think it's a good deal, then Obama will deem it bad and you'll see a press conference with him saying he won't support it. He won't give any specifcs as to what he doesn't like about it (because it would be painfully obvious he had never read it), and I can guarantee he won't answer any questions. He'll trot out his bogus line about how he's the only one standing up for the working man, how he's the maverick voting against the grain. He'll storm into the session just to vote "nay," then disappear as quickly as the last camera flash fades. Another shameless political stunt.

 

 

 

Its all the same. Both sides pull the same shiit.

bull sh--. Obama has at the very least read Bush's plan, and you can bet he's more on top of what Congress is negotiating than McCain. McCain has already admitted he didn't read the Bush plan. If he's not going to take the time to read a three page document, then you can be sure he's not interested in being briefed on the Congressional plan, especially if he's only breezing into town for a photo op and to spoon Lieberman.

 

At this point he's going to try and monkeywrench any plan, as having no legislation gets him out of the debate and looking even more clueless and out of it than he already does.

[GG]

Here's an interesting perspective.

banks made bad bets?

 

He's talking in circles. If the liquidity crisis is a mirage, where is the liquidity? It's true that there's about $500bn in private equity waiting to be deployed, but it will continue to sit on the sidelines until the buy-out barons feel that the bottom is at hand. Without stabilizing the banks' balance sheets, you won't hit a bottom. As for his suggestion that the government open it up for a forward auction, how would that be different than what the companies are doing now in trying to sell it?

 

Again, this is not a sure fire fix, but at least it gives you breathing room as you clean up the balance sheets.

 

As for the impact on the dollar, the 10-yr rallied as the bailout news turned more positive.

[finknottle]

Bush plan

 

McCain stops campaign to make sure plan is pushed and passed.

 

Bush=McCain

 

*** I realize this is falling on willfully deaf ears, but this aspect of the current political theater is so important it bears pointing out:

 

Some people like the plan, some (mostly Republicans) do not.

 

McCain is going to be faced with a choice: support it, or don't.

 

If he doesn't, then enough Republicans will follow the Republican Candidate that the legislation will not pass. That means, we do nothing. That is a terrible risk.

 

His only alternative is to go to Washington, participate in crafting legislation he can get behind, and ensure that it passes.

 

Yes - he may not be contributing anything as an economist. That misses the point: he is a Kingmaker in the process, a role he has no choice in. *Nothing can get passed if the party candidate is not fully behind it, and he can't get behind it unless he is personally satisfied with it.*

 

Sadly, the same situation is true for Obama: if he came out against the bill, it would not be passed. But since he seems content to accept whatever they come up with based on the Bush proposal, he avoids taking any responsibility for whether the legislation is good or bad, or whether something or nothing is passed.