Steely Dan Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Link Table 1. Top 10 quarterbacks at comebacks since 1996 Rank Quarterback 1 Jake Plummer has 19 wins and 28 Losses 2 Peyton Manning has 19 wins and 29 Losses 2a. Vinny Testaverde has 19 wins and 29 Losses 4 Tom Brady has 13 wins and 8 Losses 5 Jon Kitna has 15 wins and 23 Losses 6 Kerry Collins has 17 wins and 30 Losses 7 Donovan McNabb has 12 wins and 15 Losses 8 Marc Bulger has 10 wins and 5 Losses 9 Jake Delhomme has 10 wins and 12 Losses 9a. Jay Fiedler has 10 wins and 12 Losses After 3 games TE is 2-0 EDIT: 2-0 THIS year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Trent has three. Washington last season. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
murra Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Does Redskins last year count as a 4th qtr comeback? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 Trent has three. Washington last season. I stand corrected which is 3-0. even better. Lori, do you know what the 4th quarter comeback stats are for the HOF'ers? Also, last year were there any 4th quarter deficits that would count for this list of TE not overcoming? I can't remember. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 It would probably help if I wasn't so tired but here's the rules of the study. Any instance in which a team had possession of the ball at some point in the fourth quarter and was trailing by eight points or less was considered for the study. This naturally would include any successful comeback regardless of the largest deficit faced – one can’t complete a twenty-point comeback without getting the score under 9 points at some time. It also gives a reasonable cut-off for failed comebacks: where one drive could potentially change the lead or send the game to overtime. On occasion a team will get the ball very early in the fourth quarter, then again later, and (very rarely) a third or fourth time, and be within one score every time. In this study, that is counted as only one failed game opportunity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 This is a sore subject for anyone who regularly visits the PFRA forum. The problem with this is the criteria used to determine a "comeback win." If you use the entire fourth quarter, the analysis is pretty much useless. You also never see the person doing the analysis actually take all aspects of the game into account with their analysis. How about the defense? How about special teams? How about the running game? The quarterback has little to do with this, but gets the credit for the "comeback win." At least this author talks a little about the coaching, which is more than you usually see with these types of articles. Regardless, I put no weight into any analysis that uses the entire fourth quarter as its criteria for a "comeback win." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Lori, do you know what the 4th quarter comeback stats are for the HOF'ers? Criteria: -Since 1950 -11038 NFL and AFL games played (not including ties) -Only 20 or more "comeback wins" using the 4th quarter "comeback win" method -Not just HOFers -Nothing from 2008 Dan Marino 37 (16 Away, 21 Home) Johnny Unitas 34 (14 Away, 20 Home) John Elway 33 (12 Away , 21 Home) Joe Montana 31 (22 Away, 8 Home, 1 Neutral) Vinny Testaverde 30 (18 Away, 12 Home) Warren Moon 28 (12 Away, 16 Home) Fran Tarkenton 28 (15 Away, 13 Home) Drew Bledsoe 27 (13 Away, 14 Home) Brett Favre 27 (6 Away, 21 Home) Peyton Manning 24 (13 Away, 11 Home) Dave Krieg 24 (8 Away, 16 Home) Jim Kelly 23 (11 Away, 12 Home) Dan Fouts 23 (12 Away, 11 Home) Randall Cunningham 22 (14 Away, 8 Home) Joe Theismann 21 (8 Away, 12 Home, 1 Neutral) Steve Bartkowski 21 (11 Away, 10 Home) Jake Plummer 21 (10 Away , 11 Home) Joe Ferguson 20 (11 Away, 9 Home) Tom Brady 20 (11 Away, 8 Home, 1 Neutral) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I seem to remember a Dallas Cowboys game when Trent Edwards played. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 This is a sore subject for anyone who regularly visits the PFRA forum. The problem with this is the criteria used to determine a "comeback win." If you use the entire fourth quarter, the analysis is pretty much useless. You also never see the person doing the analysis actually take all aspects of the game into account with their analysis. How about the defense? How about special teams? How about the running game? The quarterback has little to do with this, but gets the credit for the "comeback win." At least this author talks a little about the coaching, which is more than you usually see with these types of articles. Regardless, I put no weight into any analysis that uses the entire fourth quarter as its criteria for a "comeback win." I agree to a certain extent but the QB is the one who manages the offense and leads them to putting the necessary points on the board. I seem to remember a Dallas Cowboys game when Trent Edwards played. That was a loss. If you know that then what is the point of your comment? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I agree to a certain extent but the QB is the one who manages the offense and leads them to putting the necessary points on the board. Everybody remembers Flutie for the Jacksonville bootleg, but without Pat Williams sacking Brunell to force the Jags to punt, the offense never gets back on the field. That was a loss. If you know that then what is the point of your comment? Um, that your original post lists both wins and losses? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted September 24, 2008 Author Share Posted September 24, 2008 Everybody remembers Flutie for the Jacksonville bootleg, but without Pat Williams sacking Brunell to force the Jags to punt, the offense never gets back on the field. Um, that your original post lists both wins and losses? Oh, yeah. I'm home sick again my head is really cloudy which explains the mistakes being made I just woke up. That's my excuse and I'm stickin to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsFan-4-Ever Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Trent has three. Washington last season. I have read that he's had 4 in 12 starts on ESPN. It began on offense, as Trent Edwards was near perfect -- going 14-of-19 for 182 yards and a touchdown -- in engineering three straight scoring drives to end the game. For Edwards, it marked the fourth time in 12 career starts he's rallied the Bills back when trailing or tied in the fourth quarter. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=280921002 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I agree to a certain extent but the QB is the one who manages the offense and leads them to putting the necessary points on the board. But he may not be responsible for the scoring. If the defense intercepts the ball and gives the offense great field position, should the quarterback be credited with the "win?" How about a special teams kick return that puts them deep in opposing territory? The QB gains minimal yards and the field goal kicker wins the game. The quarterback gets the credit? There are too many scenarios that are out of the QBs control or influence to give him credit for the wins. It is a meaningless statistic because you remove all context. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I have read that he's had 4 in 12 starts on ESPN. It began on offense, as Trent Edwards was near perfect -- going 14-of-19 for 182 yards and a touchdown -- in engineering three straight scoring drives to end the game. For Edwards, it marked the fourth time in 12 career starts he's rallied the Bills back when trailing or tied in the fourth quarter. http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/recap?gameId=280921002 The fourth one would have to be the Jets game, which was tied at 7 going into the fourth quarter. That one's kind of bogus if you're talking about 'comebacks', though, because the Jets never led. (Not that I'm discounting the win, mind you ...) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JujuFish Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Criteria: -Since 1950 -11038 NFL and AFL games played (not including ties) -Only 20 or more "comeback wins" using the 4th quarter "comeback win" method -Not just HOFers -Nothing from 2008 Dan Marino 37 (16 Away, 21 Home) Johnny Unitas 34 (14 Away, 20 Home) John Elway 33 (12 Away , 21 Home) Joe Montana 31 (22 Away, 8 Home, 1 Neutral) Vinny Testaverde 30 (18 Away, 12 Home) Warren Moon 28 (12 Away, 16 Home) Fran Tarkenton 28 (15 Away, 13 Home) Drew Bledsoe 27 (13 Away, 14 Home) Brett Favre 27 (6 Away, 21 Home) Peyton Manning 24 (13 Away, 11 Home) Dave Krieg 24 (8 Away, 16 Home) Jim Kelly 23 (11 Away, 12 Home) Dan Fouts 23 (12 Away, 11 Home) Randall Cunningham 22 (14 Away, 8 Home) Joe Theismann 21 (8 Away, 12 Home, 1 Neutral) Steve Bartkowski 21 (11 Away, 10 Home) Jake Plummer 21 (10 Away , 11 Home) Joe Ferguson 20 (11 Away, 9 Home) Tom Brady 20 (11 Away, 8 Home, 1 Neutral) Just curious, where did you get this information? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
C.Biscuit97 Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I seem to remember a Dallas Cowboys game when Trent Edwards played. How annoying can one person be??? What does TE's second NFL start have to do with this season??? Peyton Manning went 3-13 in his first season. I guess it's meaningless what he did after that. You're terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HardyBoy Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I seem to remember a Dallas Cowboys game when Trent Edwards played. The Bills never trailed in the fourth quarter of the Cowboys game until there was not time left. The Bills offense, IIRC, never got the ball back in the fourth quarter while trailing, and therefore doesn't count as a loss in terms of this study. What if they did get the ball back with I don't know thirty seconds left, and had to start on the 15 or something. Is that considered a failed comback attempt? That would hardly be fair. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Just curious, where did you get this information? Start with this...Linescores. Then add countless newspaper articles to get the rosters for each game. That information is in my archives, but not online. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 How annoying can one person be??? What does TE's second NFL start have to do with this season??? Peyton Manning went 3-13 in his first season. I guess it's meaningless what he did after that. You're terrible. Oh. I didn't understand that he meant comebacks this season. Now it all makes sense. Especially that Jake Plummer is 19-28 in comeback games this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sisyphean Bills Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 The Bills never trailed in the fourth quarter of the Cowboys game until there was not time left. The Bills offense, IIRC, never got the ball back in the fourth quarter while trailing, and therefore doesn't count as a loss in terms of this study. What if they did get the ball back with I don't know thirty seconds left, and had to start on the 15 or something. Is that considered a failed comback attempt? That would hardly be fair. Thanks for the explanation. I didn't realize this was some non-zero-sum bogo-stat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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