Fingon Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I'm just wondering why our O-line uses a zone blocking scheme, aren't the lines that use it usually smaller? We have 4 guys around 6-6 320+... just seems to me like the scheme we use doesn't fit our players. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dennis in NC Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I'm just wondering why our O-line uses a zone blocking scheme, aren't the lines that use it usually smaller? We have 4 guys around 6-6 320+... just seems to me like the scheme we use doesn't fit our players. I have often wondered about this as well. During a recent Broncos (yuk) game, an announcer explain ZB as all 5 OL guys moving out in the same direction. All go right, or all go left, etc. I assume there would be various angles involved, but that was the simplistic explanation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkady Renko Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Last I heard they were not running a zone blocking scheme anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Turk Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 I have often wondered about this as well. During a recent Broncos (yuk) game, an announcer explain ZB as all 5 OL guys moving out in the same direction. All go right, or all go left, etc. I assume there would be various angles involved, but that was the simplistic explanation. Yes, that is correct...it also is much simpler because the rules for zone blocking don't change regardless of the defensive front. In a man blocking scheme, depending on the defensive front, there are different rules. So if the defense lines up one way and then shifts or brings extra players in and changes, the rules for blocking change and unless everyone recognizes it together there will not be proper blocking for the play. So 1 play could have 3 or 4 different blocking schemes depending on the what the defense shows. They are usually classified into 3 basic types: Inside Zone(IZ), Outside Zone(OZ) or Stretch play... The most basic form just asks the each lineman to identify whether he is "covered"---meaning he has a player in front of him, or "uncovered"--meaning noone is in front of him. If he is uncovered, he helps double team a defensive player to the playside which helps neutralize defensive talent and creates cutback lanes, then leaves to head downfield to block on the second level while the other lineman continues to block him... Another scheme asks the lineman to envision a "railroad track" parallel to a running backs path and to block anyone that enters that area...could be a linebacker or even a stunting defensive lineman... Some schemes always use a 2 on 1 blocking scheme either starting from the outside or inside and ask the FB to block the remaining free defender... The "Pin and Pull" is used quite a bit in outside or stretch plays which consist of the playside tackle simply pinning the defensive end inside and then following by having the next lineman pull outside him and try and block on the second level... Virtually ALL NFL teams use zone blocking to some degree or in some plays, but some teams use it exclusively like the Broncos, Falcons and Packers... Many times zone blocking relies on deception as well, allowing some defenders to go unblocked to areas of the field which are not important to the play, with the lineman leaving that area and heading to block other defenders that are important to the plays success... Here is a pretty good link to an explanation: Zone Blocking 101 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Long Beach Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Here is a pretty good link to an explanation: Zone Blocking 101 good link. thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Yes, that is correct...it also is much simpler because the rules for zone blocking don't change regardless of the defensive front. In a man blocking scheme, depending on the defensive front, there are different rules. So if the defense lines up one way and then shifts or brings extra players in and changes, the rules for blocking change and unless everyone recognizes it together there will not be proper blocking for the play. So 1 play could have 3 or 4 different blocking schemes depending on the what the defense shows. They are usually classified into 3 basic types: Inside Zone(IZ), Outside Zone(OZ) or Stretch play... The most basic form just asks the each lineman to identify whether he is "covered"---meaning he has a player in front of him, or "uncovered"--meaning noone is in front of him. If he is uncovered, he helps double team a defensive player to the playside which helps neutralize defensive talent and creates cutback lanes, then leaves to head downfield to block on the second level while the other lineman continues to block him... Another scheme asks the lineman to envision a "railroad track" parallel to a running backs path and to block anyone that enters that area...could be a linebacker or even a stunting defensive lineman... Some schemes always use a 2 on 1 blocking scheme either starting from the outside or inside and ask the FB to block the remaining free defender... The "Pin and Pull" is used quite a bit in outside or stretch plays which consist of the playside tackle simply pinning the defensive end inside and then following by having the next lineman pull outside him and try and block on the second level... Virtually ALL NFL teams use zone blocking to some degree or in some plays, but some teams use it exclusively like the Broncos, Falcons and Packers... Many times zone blocking relies on deception as well, allowing some defenders to go unblocked to areas of the field which are not important to the play, with the lineman leaving that area and heading to block other defenders that are important to the plays success... Here is a pretty good link to an explanation: Zone Blocking 101 Very good. I have been calling for the Bills to get back to a more Man to Man blocking scheme for a while now. Right now, they are not using the physical size of our O-Line correctly. The guys we have up front have the size and strength to dominate a D-Line when going straight ahead. Right now, they are asking these massive linemen to run and move and they are just not made for that. Other than Peters, and maybe Dock, they do not have the required athleticism to make a zone scheme work as well as it can. This team needs to use its size and strength and just run through people.....not try to get around them. They started to use more man blocking in the second half of last year, but through the first 3 games, they are just not doing it as much as they should. A good example was the Lynch TD last week where the whole line ended up in the end zone! That is the kind of push this line could get going straight ahead. They don't need to be pulling Walker and Fowler, etc and have to have them move around. They just need to run right through the D-line and out physical and out muscle the D-Line. I am hoping they come to realize that they are not using the O-Line the way they should be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Very good. I have been calling for the Bills to get back to a more Man to Man blocking scheme for a while now. Right now, they are not using the physical size of our O-Line correctly. The guys we have up front have the size and strength to dominate a D-Line when going straight ahead. Right now, they are asking these massive linemen to run and move and they are just not made for that. Other than Peters, and maybe Dock, they do not have the required athleticism to make a zone scheme work as well as it can. This team needs to use its size and strength and just run through people.....not try to get around them. They started to use more man blocking in the second half of last year, but through the first 3 games, they are just not doing it as much as they should. A good example was the Lynch TD last week where the whole line ended up in the end zone! That is the kind of push this line could get going straight ahead. They don't need to be pulling Walker and Fowler, etc and have to have them move around. They just need to run right through the D-line and out physical and out muscle the D-Line. I am hoping they come to realize that they are not using the O-Line the way they should be. While I don't disagree with your conclusions (the O-Line details are NOT my strong suit), I always thought that Walker was considered to be quite athletic, for a big OT. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 The most interesting play to me on Sunday was on Lynch's short yardage TD run where our OL not only successfully got off the line and pushed the DL back, but in fact pushed them back across the board and so deep that the LBs and DBs lined up on the second level were pushed into by the charge (it was such a push that Reed ended up on the ground in the pile and was slapped by a Raider CB drawing an ejection as the pile was really in the center of play even though they were deep in the endzone). Lynch could virtually have walked into the endzone the line charge was so devastating. Perhaps this is an indication of moving to a man to man blocking scheme rather than zone blocking. Zone blocking probably lends itself to pass protection as the blocker is reacting to whether he is uncovered or covered and then also moving to occupy his zone. He is reacting to the rush rather than dictating the play. I think we outside observers are simply guessing what blocking scheme they are running on a particular play so inside perspective is good to get (and sometimes it is even accurate). However, the production on this play is certainly consistent with the team using a more aggressive OL scheme than the reactive zone blocking model. It also would not be surprising if one thing which prompted this switch was us going with a QB who does more read and quick release rather than the react to the play which is more the JP style. Either approach can be successful, so a QB who brings TE's skill set is not going to be inherently better than a QB with JP's strengths and weaknesses. However, it seems clear thus far the Edwards is extremely good doing what he does well and that JP was used by the Bills in a static system that did not play to the skills he learned and showed running for his life at Tulane. I like where we are at QB right now and how we are using him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sven233 Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 While I don't disagree with your conclusions (the O-Line details are NOT my strong suit), I always thought that Walker was considered to be quite athletic, for a big OT. Well, that is not what I really meant. I didn't mean to imply that Walker was not athletic. In fact, I believe just the opposite is true. I actually think he is a VERY athletic man, especially for his size. He can do everything you need to have an OT do and I believe he is very solid. I am not saying that he can't pull or move because he can. But let me ask you a question...... Do you think a man that is 6'8" and weighs 370lbs+ will move better side to side in and around people or straight ahead? I am not saying he can't do the former, but if he is pushing straight ahead and just killing the guy in front of him all day, I think this O-Line will be better. And I don't want to single out just Walker. Our O-Line averages something like 6'4 and 330lbs and is one of the biggest in the entire league. They would be better if you just turned them loose and let them maul the guy in front of them all day. A man to man blocking scheme would just be better for these particular players. Throw in some zone blocking here and there, but use these animals we have up front and just dominate the line of scrimmage play in and play out and this huge line will wear out defense very quickly. So, please don't take my comment the wrong way. These big men we have up front are very athletic and can move. But with their size and strength, they will be better moving straight ahead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 24, 2008 Share Posted September 24, 2008 Well, that is not what I really meant. I didn't mean to imply that Walker was not athletic. In fact, I believe just the opposite is true. I actually think he is a VERY athletic man, especially for his size. He can do everything you need to have an OT do and I believe he is very solid. I am not saying that he can't pull or move because he can. But let me ask you a question...... Do you think a man that is 6'8" and weighs 370lbs+ will move better side to side in and around people or straight ahead? I am not saying he can't do the former, but if he is pushing straight ahead and just killing the guy in front of him all day, I think this O-Line will be better. And I don't want to single out just Walker. Our O-Line averages something like 6'4 and 330lbs and is one of the biggest in the entire league. They would be better if you just turned them loose and let them maul the guy in front of them all day. A man to man blocking scheme would just be better for these particular players. Throw in some zone blocking here and there, but use these animals we have up front and just dominate the line of scrimmage play in and play out and this huge line will wear out defense very quickly. So, please don't take my comment the wrong way. These big men we have up front are very athletic and can move. But with their size and strength, they will be better moving straight ahead. Like I said, I don't disagree with your conclusion (and yes these are some big Mofos). Just wondering if you were inferring that Walker wasn't athletic as you left him out in the earlier post. You've cleared it up, nicely. Thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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