Steely Dan Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 When Philip Rivers was drafted, it was at #4 by the NY Giants. He was not on the board when the Bills picked, as we were not the second or third pick that year. So either way, you were wrong. I'm a dumbass!! I apologize. Well, there are many factors that decide how to pick them. If you always pick the best available player, that won't work either. What if the best available player was a running back? Do we need to pay two RBs that big of money? especially when we have jackson as well? What if we drafted a Rb in the first round, then when we drafted in 2nd round the best available player is an RB? and the same happens happens in round three where the best available is an RB? You get three RBs that you don't need. When people say "draft the best available" there is always wiggle room. And yes, you do draft need sometimes. If you don't, you will fail. What if you team has no QB, but every time you pick the best player available is never a QB? you are going to have to compermise to get a QB, because you need a QB. If you need a position, you better draft it at some point. You can pick all the "best available" you want, but if you are missing a position, your team can't play. It's called the Al Davis school of drafting. The faders had Fartgas and Bush and still took McFadden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alaska Darin Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 It's called the Al Davis school of drafting. The faders had Fartgas and Bush and still took McFadden. Because McFadden is a "once a decade" back. That dude is a homerun. The bigger question is whether they'll ever get the rest of the organization together, not whether they should have picked McFadden. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 All true. Otoh, how old is Stroud? When is his contract up? And, who else do we have at DT? Williams? He might look a bit different without Stroud on the field, ya know? We also need a good center, as well as a TE and more guards. Our DEs are not young. The Bills need to focus on other positions, and jauron has to, at some point, stop chasing defensive backs. Ya think he will? Stroud is only 30. Williams and McCargo are quite young and Johnson is only 26. This past draft was the perfect time to pick a DB. They will have to think about Stroud's replacement in the near future. Denny, Kelsey and Schobel aren't young, but they aren't even close to old. Schobel, at 31, is probably in his prime. I'm with you on the big men, but this team has managed to get those positions filled while taking care of the other necessities at the same time. Remember, when Marv chose Whitner, I explained to you why he did that. The Bills were in such bad shape, they had to have a guaranteed success with the #1 picks. They have pretty much kept that philosophy until the damage was repaired. As recently as a year and a half ago, most of us thought the Bills needed help in almost EVERY area on the field. Now, you can pretty much pinpoint where they need to concentrate in the offseason. C, LB, TE are the only pressing needs, IMO. Then it's depth all around. They may not have built the interior the way you, or I, would have. But, they sure did a fine job building it. Any complaints we might have had, any second guessing he can do about what they should have done, should be stifled ASAP. The hit rate of the Bills' acquisitions, since 2006, has been phenomenal, IMO. Jauron (and the Bills FO) can go about it any way they want, as far as I'm concerned, because they have proven they are very good at it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 All true. Otoh, how old is Stroud? When is his contract up? And, who else do we have at DT? Williams? He might look a bit different without Stroud on the field, ya know? We also need a good center, as well as a TE and more guards. Our DEs are not young. The Bills need to focus on other positions, and jauron has to, at some point, stop chasing defensive backs. Ya think he will? Bill, I'm all for drafting DL and OL and I believe those areas will be addressed. I just believe the team looked at potential free agents and starting drafting their replacements in 08. McKelvin and Corner will need to become starters/contributors, which enables the team to replace from within at CB. Buffalo might retain some of their own, but not all three CB's. The 09 draft is a ways off, but right now, I'd say priorities on this team are interior OL, TE, and LB. I think Brandon knows basic team building, and if Jauron wanted a DB, someone would raise their hand and politely advise Brandon otherwise. That is, if anyone can over-rule Jauron on draft day. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 No way. Greers not that good. If the Bills were dumb enough to offer to pay Greer what is it, the top 5% of all CB's in the league, I'd sign that offer sheet before the ink ever dried. That only works if the guy you're tagging is worth top dollar. On the Bill's right now, the only one's I'd tag are JP (and not of the QB kind) and Mormann, maybe Evans and and probaby Edwards. Not that Edwards is worth it today, but QB's are hard to find. In Edwards case, he likely has at least two more years left, so you'll know way before his contract expires whether he's wort htop $$. My gut feel is, he will be. In a couple years you may add POZ, Lynch, and maybe Donte to that list. Franchise or Transition tag? At least we can make a trade and get something for him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 No way. Greers not that good. If the Bills were dumb enough to offer to pay Greer what is it, the top 5% of all CB's in the league, I'd sign that offer sheet before the ink ever dried. That only works if the guy you're tagging is worth top dollar. On the Bill's right now, the only one's I'd tag are JP (and not of the QB kind) and Mormann, maybe Evans and and probaby Edwards. Not that Edwards is worth it today, but QB's are hard to find. In Edwards case, he likely has at least two more years left, so you'll know way before his contract expires whether he's wort htop $$. My gut feel is, he will be. In a couple years you may add POZ, Lynch, and maybe Donte to that list. Jabari Greer is going to start picking off balls this year and his stock is going to rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I don't disagree, but to the point of being worth top 5 money?? He doesn't have the "pedigree" for it YET. Jabari Greer is going to start picking off balls this year and his stock is going to rise. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I don't disagree, but to the point of being worth top 5 money?? He doesn't have the "pedigree" for it YET. Many think Greer is our best cover guy and he very well may be, Greer sticks like glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ed_Formerly_of_Roch Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 That may be, but how does he compare to the top cover guy on the 31 other teams? Is he in the top 5% as by tagging him, that's the money you're giving him. Considering how fast salarys escalate, overpaying for a year or two may not be the worst thing though. Many think Greer is our best cover guy and he very well may be, Greer sticks like glue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StupidNation Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 You can't give Greer top 5 money, but he's worth some coin to keep if possible, but certainly not break the bank money. You are looking at extending/re-negotiating Stroud's and Edwards salaries along with Peters and Evans. Only so much you can do. Someone is going to leave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest dog14787 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 That may be, but how does he compare to the top cover guy on the 31 other teams? Is he in the top 5% as by tagging him, that's the money you're giving him. Considering how fast salarys escalate, overpaying for a year or two may not be the worst thing though. I'm not arguing with you, Jabari Greer is just one of my favorite players. If you could go back on some of my earlier post,( but you can't ) I started Topics on how bad Greer was, now every year, I start a topic on how good Greer is, so he's come a long way for me, for himself, and for the Buffalo Bills. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Koufax Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I think McKelvin remains a great pick. Have to wait and see what he will contribute over his first five years (the way winning teams evaluate picks), but I don't think we had any evidence then or have any now to put anybody higher. As we become a better football team we will have to shake off our bad decade, and realize we aren't drafting to cover our weakest position with an immediate starter each time, but instead trying to get the best football players we can get and evaluate their contribution over five years not 1. Youboty has gone from useless to star in year 3 (granted he wasn't the #11 pick). I am still very happy with McKelvin, and am excited at what I think he can do to help this team win football games over the next five years, and his contribution will start this season... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bowery4 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I think Greer could get the transition or franciese tag (lets face it who else gets it this coming year, JP?)if we sign Evans and re up with Jason. I had a different opinion about that before Crowell was gone (I really thought DJ liked him a lot) but this is now. We still do play the Pats* and Brady will be back next year so it would be stupid to let him walk early. If McKelvin and Corner become what we think they might it should take a year or 2 anyways. The focus then will be on signing other players as it has been pointed out. I like Greer a lot! for a while I thought he was too small but last year he really showed up! He has a ton of heart and is really a player, great guy to have playing for us IMHO. I doubt it is anything but a business decision in the end though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bills-fan in arizona Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Leodis was the best available on our board at 11 and filled a definite need (at the time). I personally wanted them to grab a DE at the spot, but with Long, Gholsten (over-rated), and Harvey off the board it was kind of a no-brainer to go with a CB. Hind-site is 20/20 and going into the draft we were solid at weakside LB with the addition of Mitchell to strong and Crowell sliding to weak (with Ellison on the bench). I REALLY liked our top 2 picks and in the long-run they will be big time players in this league. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 While I agree that Greer has played well and I'm proud of him for re-dedicating himself the the game the last couple seasons, he will probably be the odd man out this coming offseason. He will probably be offered too much money to stick around. I think the plan will be to have McKelvin take his spot next year and have Youboty and Corner keep battling for the nickle spot. Don't be surprised to see the Bills approach Youboty about an extension once Evans and Peters are taken care of either. I would be a good move to keep him around before he becomes too expensive like what will probably happen with Greer. Prepare for a 3rd or 4th round CB selection in the draft to follow...... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Saint Doug Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 While I agree that Greer has played well and I'm proud of him for re-dedicating himself the the game the last couple seasons, he will probably be the odd man out this coming offseason. He will probably be offered too much money to stick around. I think the plan will be to have McKelvin take his spot next year and have Youboty and Corner keep battling for the nickle spot. Don't be surprised to see the Bills approach Youboty about an extension once Evans and Peters are taken care of either. I would be a good move to keep him around before he becomes too expensive like what will probably happen with Greer. Prepare for a 3rd or 4th round CB selection in the draft to follow...... This sounds about right. Obscene amounts of money are being thrown at CBs now and we are not going to be the ones doing it. While it would be nice in a perfect world if we could keep everyone we drafted, but we can't. The positions where we let players walk are the ones where we have someone ready to plug the hole. We have this luxury with the CB position. Either McKelvin or Youboty will be ready to take his (either Greer or McGee) place and we will draft another in the later rounds to develop. I don't think we will slap Greer with the franchise tag. The FT is more of a band-aid that gives you time to find the players replacement. Downside of the FT is that it is very expensive, especially for the CB position. We have too many other players that we are going to have to reward with fat contracts to be giving out CB franchise tag money unnecessarily. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Would we have picked someone other than Mckelvin if we knew Youboty would step up so dramatically and went from zero to hero? Because when the 08 draft happened, we all thought that Youboty was done for and we would never see him in a bills uniform come september. But now here he is as one of the biggest surprise players. And we have more DBs than any other position we have. I think the chances of us trading down would have been bigger, maybe going after a better TE or maybe taking hardy with another high ranking WR. Because right now there doesnt seem to be even any space for him as a starter even if he was ready. which he might be. thoughts? The Bills would have been flamed for taking McKelvin if Youboty had been playing at a pro-bowl level at seasons end last year. They would have been wasting a first round pick on a kick/punt returner which would have appeared even more stupid given their amazing talent at these positions anyway. McKelvin looked real sucky in the preseason and was getting outplayed by his fourth round counterpart. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
generaLee83 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 While I agree that Greer has played well and I'm proud of him for re-dedicating himself the the game the last couple seasons, he will probably be the odd man out this coming offseason. He will probably be offered too much money to stick around. I think the plan will be to have McKelvin take his spot next year and have Youboty and Corner keep battling for the nickle spot. Don't be surprised to see the Bills approach Youboty about an extension once Evans and Peters are taken care of either. I would be a good move to keep him around before he becomes too expensive like what will probably happen with Greer. Prepare for a 3rd or 4th round CB selection in the draft to follow...... I'd like to see Youboty starting in Greer's place next season but Youboty could end up being trade bait if the Bills feel that McKelvin needs to be starting because he was a first round pick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JStranger76 Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 Maybe, but being a 3rd CB is basically starting these days anyways, so the Bills may feel like keeping Youboty right at nickle, where he has looked good so far. Reggie Corner will be giving him heat though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 20, 2008 Share Posted September 20, 2008 I'd like to see Youboty starting in Greer's place next season but Youboty could end up being trade bait if the Bills feel that McKelvin needs to be starting because he was a first round pick. If they lose Greer, why would they want to trade Youboty? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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