BuffOrange Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Kinda but not really. The league saying they're going to look at the rule seems like kind of a cop-out. The rule sucks from a "spirit of the game" perspective but realistically I don't know what can really be done about it. The problem with that play was the ref's call, not the rule. The fact that just about everyone prefaces their criticism with: "He's a great referee" makes me not feel sorry for him too. Maybe he is a good referee, I don't know - I don't keep a list and always assumed nobody else did either. Who is the 2nd best referee? Is he really that good or was he a fan favorite because he explains things well on the mic and has huge pipes? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 Anyone know what game he is doing this weekend? If it happens to be the Bills game, I issue a challange to all Bills fans attending the game to cheer for him when he comes walking outta the tunnel.......cause I will. The guy is still one of the best in the game as a ref. Honestly, if that play happens in the 1st or 2nd even 3rd quarter we wouldnt be talking about it. Amen. I would love to see that, if not at the Ralph, than at whatever stadium he is at on Sunday, because we know it won't be on Monday when the MNF game is played in San Diego! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lt. Dan's Revenge Posted September 18, 2008 Author Share Posted September 18, 2008 Kinda but not really. The league saying they're going to look at the rule seems like kind of a cop-out. The rule sucks from a "spirit of the game" perspective but realistically I don't know what can really be done about it. The problem with that play was the ref's call, not the rule. The fact that just about everyone prefaces their criticism with: "He's a great referee" makes me not feel sorry for him too. Maybe he is a good referee, I don't know - I don't keep a list and always assumed nobody else did either. Who is the 2nd best referee? Is he really that good or was he a fan favorite because he explains things well on the mic and has huge pipes? And to play devil's advocate, in a poll done at the end of last season by ESPN, which asked NFL head coaches who was, in their opinion, the best referee in the business, Hochuli was tied with Mike Carey as the leading vote-getter. That has to tell something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Yes, and posting his e-mail on Chargers message boards was BS. Somebody did that here after a Bills game he reffed a couple of years ago, and we took it down immediately. (Yeah, I know it's easily available online. Doesn't mean we have to help people be jerks.) He's owned up to blowing the call, and it's probably going to cost him any chance at doing the Super Bowl this year. What good is going to come from sending him a bunch of nasty e-mails? And, as others have pointed out here, it was still 38-31 Chargers after that play. His screwup doesn't excuse theirs. To answer the "just give it to 'em" question, I'm pretty sure it was Coleman (as previously mentioned). Unlike Hochuli's mistake, that wasn't a split-second decision -- they conferred, made a judgement call, and STILL got it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJ (not THAT RJ) Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Good points, Lori. I actually have a related question for you. Watching the replays, it sure looks to me that the SD player picked up the ball very quickly after it hit the ground; there was no sense that he got it because anyone else stopped running because of the whistle. With that in mind, what was stopping the officials from, for want of a better word, "just giving it to them"? I realize that some rules are fixed in stone, and we would not want officials ad-libbing too often, but once Hoculi realized his mistake, why not recognize that it was a fumble and treat it as such? I may have answered my own question, and I generally agree that SD had plenty of chances to win the game anyway, but I am surprised that more commentators have not asked. Yes, and posting his e-mail on Chargers message boards was BS. Somebody did that here after a Bills game he reffed a couple of years ago, and we took it down immediately. (Yeah, I know it's easily available online. Doesn't mean we have to help people be jerks.) He's owned up to blowing the call, and it's probably going to cost him any chance at doing the Super Bowl this year. What good is going to come from sending him a bunch of nasty e-mails? And, as others have pointed out here, it was still 38-31 Chargers after that play. His screwup doesn't excuse theirs. To answer the "just give it to 'em" question, I'm pretty sure it was Coleman (as previously mentioned). Unlike Hochuli's mistake, that wasn't a split-second decision -- they conferred, made a judgement call, and STILL got it wrong. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Once it's blown dead, it's done. Can't unring that bell. I guess that's what the competition committee will consider after the season, but they'll probably decide that opening up decisions like that to replay could cause more problems than it solves -- what becomes a judgement call, and what doesn't? Sucks for the Chargers -- now they know how the Raiders felt after the "tuck rule" game -- but the Broncos fans would be complaining just as loud if SD was awarded the ball on a play that had been blown dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveRalph Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Hochuli, in ruling (incorrectly) that it was an incomplete pass, was also incorrect a 2nd time- because if his ruling was that it was a pass, the ball travelled backwards, and by rule, should've been a live ball regardless. I understand if Cutler was in traffic, and it appeared the ball was tipped, or he was hit as he threw, etc....But he was running all by himself!!! Overall, I don't like Hochuli as a ref. His games consistently take 3 1/2 or 4 hours to finish. I don't know what it is...His discussions with other refs on seemingly routine calls seem to take longer than everyone else. I realize the "measure twice, cut once" aspect of things, but his crew seems to take it to another level. His owning up to his mistake is what's overrated. What's he going to do, refute it??? He saw it for himself in the replay hood. Nonetheless, we have all made mistakes in our lives and our jobs. It's the nature of humans. The only failure is not learning, and making the same mistake again. The NFL should certainly review their policy so that another official isn't put in the same position. Hochuli getting "marked down" by the NFL was expected. But the real punishment would be if they changed the referree signal for illegal touching. You just KNOW that is Ed's favorite call with those pipes!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
todd Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 I think everyone has made a mistake that could be considered "big". How he has handled it is commendable. Admit you were wrong, work to make it better, and move on. He's handling it like a professional, and I respect him more for it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Hochuli has clearly been one of the NFL's most respected and consistent referees for years now. The guy blows one call, albiet in a very large spot, that helps lead to a different outcome in a game and now he has to receive hate mail and face public humliation like this? Not to mention, although he did make the incorrect call, this could have been nulified if the league didn't have the ridiculous rule that says you can never use instant replay to review a play like this particular one that was blown dead. The guy is obviously sympathetic for what he did, and is even responding to these idiots e-mails. Am I the only one who thinks that a lot of people, especially hundreds of these San Diego fans, are going a little overboard. Hey, stop the Broncos on one, just one, of the SAME two plays they ran BACK-TO-BACK to score the touchdown and then take the lead with the 2 pt conversion, and San Diego goes home with the win anyways. Hochuli shoulda weaseled around it even though he blew the whistle.I think his biggest mistake was being married to the law and not the spirit of the law. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tcali Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Yes, and posting his e-mail on Chargers message boards was BS. Somebody did that here after a Bills game he reffed a couple of years ago, and we took it down immediately. (Yeah, I know it's easily available online. Doesn't mean we have to help people be jerks.) He's owned up to blowing the call, and it's probably going to cost him any chance at doing the Super Bowl this year. What good is going to come from sending him a bunch of nasty e-mails? And, as others have pointed out here, it was still 38-31 Chargers after that play. His screwup doesn't excuse theirs. To answer the "just give it to 'em" question, I'm pretty sure it was Coleman (as previously mentioned). Unlike Hochuli's mistake, that wasn't a split-second decision -- they conferred, made a judgement call, and STILL got it wrong. The just give it to'em refs should have all been banned from the league for life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilly Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Hochuli, in ruling (incorrectly) that it was an incomplete pass, was also incorrect a 2nd time- because if his ruling was that it was a pass, the ball travelled backwards, and by rule, should've been a live ball regardless. I understand if Cutler was in traffic, and it appeared the ball was tipped, or he was hit as he threw, etc....But he was running all by himself!!! He did rule that way, 'cept that he blew the whistle, so regardless of whether it was a live ball, it's still dead. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 He's a great ref and is very well respected. He just messed up and made a bad call. Mind you, if that cost the Bills a game I would probably be calling for his job. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BEAST MODE BABY! Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 The NFL has the best refs in the world, except when they suck. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AJ1 Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 that wasn't a split-second decision -- they conferred, made a judgement call, and STILL got it wrong. Still all time worst call against Bills...the guy caught it out of bounds and then they marked it 2 yards ahead of where caught. A gold-plated reason for the challenge rule. HS level bad officiating Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 18, 2008 Share Posted September 18, 2008 Still all time worst call against Bills...the guy caught it out of bounds and then they marked it 2 yards ahead of where caught. A gold-plated reason for the challenge rule. HS level bad officiating Pat Toomay may disagree with you, but I'm not sure I do. If not the worst, then certainly right near the top. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LongLiveRalph Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 He did rule that way, 'cept that he blew the whistle, so regardless of whether it was a live ball, it's still dead. Yes, agreed, once he blew the whistle his hands were tied. Just pointing out that he even botched his botched call. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Dean Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Hochuli, in ruling (incorrectly) that it was an incomplete pass, was also incorrect a 2nd time- because if his ruling was that it was a pass, the ball travelled backwards, and by rule, should've been a live ball regardless. I understand if Cutler was in traffic, and it appeared the ball was tipped, or he was hit as he threw, etc....But he was running all by himself!!! I'm not sure how that is two mistakes. It wasn't an incomplete pass BECAUSE it wasn't a pass. (A pass is, by definition, forward. a "backwards pass" isn't a pass, at all.) He initially ruled it was an incomplete pass because he thought it was a pass (forward, by definition), and blew the whistle. Am I missing what you are saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 New flash: Ed Hochuli is human, we all make mistakes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Something you may find of interest: http://www.nfl85.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=479 (NFL85.com is a site run by Hochuli's son, Scott. And for those of you who were curious, he's apparently working Cleveland at Baltimore this week.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VJ91 Posted September 19, 2008 Share Posted September 19, 2008 Hochuli has clearly been one of the NFL's most respected and consistent referees for years now. The guy blows one call, albiet in a very large spot, that helps lead to a different outcome in a game and now he has to receive hate mail and face public humliation like this? Not to mention, although he did make the incorrect call, this could have been nulified if the league didn't have the ridiculous rule that says you can never use instant replay to review a play like this particular one that was blown dead. The guy is obviously sympathetic for what he did, and is even responding to these idiots e-mails. Am I the only one who thinks that a lot of people, especially hundreds of these San Diego fans, are going a little overboard. Hey, stop the Broncos on one, just one, of the SAME two plays they ran BACK-TO-BACK to score the touchdown and then take the lead with the 2 pt conversion, and San Diego goes home with the win anyways. Hochuli did his job! He got the call wrong, so what? NFL officials are human beings. They make mistakes. But the owners are making a bigger mistake by allowing the refs to blow their damn whistles before plays like that one finsih. That stupid whistle was an insult to the entire replay system the NFL has spent so much time and money on perfecting over the past 20 years. Now they need to perfect the system a little more. This crap where QB's lose their grip on the ball and either fumble it or are able to hold onto it until their arm goes forward an inch converting the fumble to an incomplete pass has gone on long enough. That play needs a rule change all to itself: Very simple. Even if the refs think the QB was able to make an incomplete pass - motion out of the play, he must still allow the play to go on until the ball is recovered by either team. Then he can make his ruling, and either team can go ahead and challange it if they think he is wrong. So Hochuli would have swallowed his infamous whistle until that Charger was forced out of bounds with Cutlers' fumble. Then he would have ruled the play an incomplete pass and awarded the ball back to the Broncos. The play is immediately reviewed by the replay officials because it was within the last two minutes of the game. Hochuli checks under the hood and sees what everyone else saw, and overturns his call and awards the ball rightfully over to the Chargers. He still would have blown the call, but nobody would have cared because the replay challange system would have saved the day. It is time to let the replay technology take the "Tuck Rule" out of the officials hands once and for all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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