I'm tired of all this WM hype after just one game

[LasBillz]

So what if he was a number 1 draft pick? Most would agree that was a wasted pick, even if WM turns out to be the next OJ. All that will mean is that TD got lucky with his gamble. If he had drafted for other needs the Bills have we probably wouldn't be 1-4. Did you see the burst Joe Burns showed when he spelled WM in the Miami game or the game Sammy Morris had, does that make them special?  If we had drafted for a need that year and just had one of these backs come of the bench we wouldn't have a need of 2 quality starting backs.

 

With that being said, I wish WM all the best as I am a Bills fan. And how can you be stupid enough to make acomment that TH can't get the job done? BS; you'd have to be a fool to think he is hands down better than Henry; especially after posting identical numbersthroughout the year. As a matter of fact, up until the play where he slipped, TH game against NE was more impressive than WM game against the Dolphins as he consistently gained yardage against them keeping the chains moving..

80809[/snapback]

 

Wait a minute- even if Willis turns out to be the second coming of OJ, you think it's a wasted pick? Let's see, OJ's in the Hall of Fame...Travis Henry will never get there...we traded the overrated Peerless Price to get the pick for MaGahee, so we definitely got the better of the deal. The only thing stopping Willis from being a great deal is the coaching staff stubbornly refusing to recognize the fact that he would have been the 4th overall pick in the draft- that placement happens for a reason. The mistake is starting Travis Henry in front of him, rather than getting some value for Travis on the market.

 

We have seen the best of Travis Henry- yes, he hits the hole fast if there is one- if there is player in the hole from either team, however, he hits them likewise and falls down. Sometimes he falls down for no reason. Little vision, no moves, less power than Willis. Travis can get the job done- in a Joe Cribbs kind of way. But Willis could be something special.

 

MaGahee should play to see if indeed he is the second coming of Simpson- if you wouldn't want to see that, let me know what you're smoking.

[John from Riverside]

Once again....everyone is comparing these two backs on their yardage and running ability......

 

That is NOT what we shoud be soley basing our decision on IMHO

 

The fact is the reason why WM should be in the game:

 

- Facts our this offense runs more smoothly...simple as that

- You dont see DE's getting instant pressure on Bledsoe while he is in the game

- The screen pass is a real weapon with WM....because he is a bigger target....can catch a screen pass....and is patient enough to set up blockers

- He has the size to get tough first downs and allow the bills to open up their offensive playbook

 

You have to figure it all in

[RunTheBall]

My whole problem with WM is the overhyping of his performance against a suspect run D and the taking for granted the play Henry has showed us the past 3 seasons.

 

Miami has a suspect run D? Only because it helps your point.

 

 

Now hear me out, while WM ran hard and gain all these yards after contact, he wouldn't have had to encounter as much contact at the line if he had ran into the hole where the play were designed instead of tippy toeing at the LOS.

 

It's obvious you don't know what you're watching. Willis is a patient runner who waits for his blocks to set up. What, you think all of a sudden this horrible O-line was opening up holes?? What are you smoking?? The reason Willis had yards after contact was not because he missed the hole, it was because there WAS NO HOLE. He made his yards on his own. Wake up.

 

That is why he averaged about 3.2 yards; if he can correct this and hit the hole hard when it is there then maybe he can be special WHEN HE IS BACK TO RUNNING FULL SPEED!

 

I agree. Willis is not 100%, and yet he still is performing better than Henry.

 

WRITE IT DOWN, YOU HEARD IT HERE FIRST!

 

This isn't the first time we've heard comments from the uninformed.

 

 

RunTheBall

[Rico]

I can't believe some of you fans on this board; how you guys can jump on and off the ship so fast. I mean for the Bills sake I hope WM does well. But for god sakes he had one good game. I mean I kept note for at one point he had 23 for 75 yards, nothing special. But then he finished with 111 on 26 as he had a 31-yard run. While he ran hard, kept his feet moving and gain all those yards after contact, if you take away that run he only averaged 3.2 YPC. If Henry hadn't slipped on 3rd and 2, had a 20+ run and we had won that game against the Pats everybody be on his you know what; he finished with 98 yards as he ran hard from beginning to the end.

 

My biggest irk is that some seem to think WM is so much faster or a break away threat than TH. He hasn't showed me any explosiveness whatsoever this year. The 31 yard run he had was more impressive with the stiff arm he showed than his display of speed. He NEVER explodes into a hole or out off a cut making defenses respect his speed. TH hits the hole way faster and harder than WM. Now WM can get by with his patient running style read and react defenses but aggressive, penetrating defenses will stop him cold if he continues to hesitate at the LOS. With that being said WM is strong runner, hard to bring down, moves the pile much better than I expected; I thought he'd be more of a slasher type. He also is a much better blocker than TH. Next year he might be all that is advertised. But for anybody to think that at this point and moment that WM is head and shoulders, hands down better runner than TH after one game is ludicrous for they must have amnesia to the way TH has played the past 3 seasons.

 

It is a shame that the fans on this board can turn on Bills players so quick after one bad game or stretch. Think about, especially this year: Nate Clemens, Eric Moulds, Travis Henry London Fletcher, and Sam Adams has played consistently above average here for the past few years but once they have one bad play or game the fans here act like they are expendable and over rated. Some fans need to wake up a realized that one good play or game doesn't make a player a superstar or worthy of replacing a starter just as a bad play or game should send a major contributor to the bench. CONSISTENCY is the key...

80780[/snapback]

Sorry, the days of loyalty to any given player are long, long gone.

WHAT HAVE YOU DONE FOR ME LATELY?

I don't care if it's Jim Kelly or Joe Dufek,

if someone comes along that is better,

so long, good luck, & goodbye.

 

As Bill Murray once said,

That's the facts, Jack.

[Guest Bufpow]

Freak you are full of crap. TD did draft a need when he drafted Willis. We need a RB that can block and Catch besides run to have a good offense. Do you think it was any coincidence that Bledsoe only got sacked once with Henry on the bench? Henry has never been a good all purpose back. 1300 yards don't mean squat if you cannot catch or block and become a liability in the passing game.

[Typical TBD Guy]

80780[/snapback]

 

We're bipolar fans. That's ok, provided:

 

A. We still cheer for whichever guy is starting for our Bills.

 

B. We don't cheer when one of our players gets injured.

[Typical TBD Guy]

i agree with that fully, (which is why i still support bledsoe even). henry however does not fall under the category of consistant.

80794[/snapback]

 

Wait...you're excusing a 12 year pro who has not been earning his contract for the past 29 games, but coming down hard on a fourth year pro who has gotten better each year despite this season's 4 mediocre starts?

 

[Lori]

So what do you want to do keep changing the criteria, until it proves that he can actually play well.

Nope, just wanted the stats that actually prove the point you tried to make. Thanks, CTW, if you hadn't asked I would have.

 

BTW it's

 

2002

 

4.7

3.4

5.3

3.9

2003

 

3.3

4.6

4.2

4.6

 

BTW, for 2001 it's

 

3.1

3.8

3.6

3.0

 

And this year so far, it's

 

2.4

3.9

4.0

2.4

So anyway you look at it, he never get's better in the fourth over another quarter.  In fact it looks like he is better in the 2nd or 3rd and fails otherwise.

80899[/snapback]

That's more like it - should've used those numbers in the first place. Like CTW said - just listing the yardage totals doesn't tell us whether Henry got those yards on 40 carries or 140.

[VABills]

Wait...you're excusing a 12 year pro who has not been earning his contract for the past 29 games, but coming down hard on a fourth year pro who has gotten better each year despite this season's 4 mediocre starts?

 

   

81137[/snapback]

Hasn't lived up to his contract? The man has taken a beating because his dumb as rocks RB can't remember a play, or block. Drew may not be the best QB and may only be average but he sure the hell looked above average the other day, when he knew he could trust his RB to protect him. They had to backups on the OL, a rookie WR starting, the #3/4 receiver cut, yet all of a sudden Drew looks good. I think not. I believe Drew looked good because he knew the line had been doing their job mostly and that a large chunk of his hits were due to the moron in the backfield with him. The guy has had 4 years to learn basic plays and formations, and how to identify a blitz and he just seems to get worse every year.

[VABills]

Nope, just wanted the stats that actually prove the point you tried to make. Thanks, CTW, if you hadn't asked I would have.

That's more like it - should've used those numbers in the first place. Like CTW said - just listing the yardage totals doesn't tell us whether Henry got those yards on 40 carries or 140.

81150[/snapback]

Either way, one shows the team doesn't rely on him, or it shows he isn't getting it done in the 4th. Either way Travis has pretty much failed us running wise in the 4th quarter, by any statistic.

 

He also continues to fail us in every quarter in every other aspect of what a running back should be doing.

[Typical TBD Guy]

Hasn't lived up to his contract?  The man has taken a beating because his dumb as rocks RB can't remember a play, or block.  Drew may not be the best QB and may only be average but he sure the hell looked above average the other day, when he knew he could trust his RB to protect him.

81151[/snapback]

 

Drew makes $6 million a year doing a QB job that a Trent Dilfer could do for $1 million. I'm agreeing with you that this season Henry has regressed and that Drew has done a pretty good job of not losing any game this year, but how can you disagree with me that Drew hasn't lived up to his contract?

 

But back to the Henry/McGahee debate, there shouldn't even be a debate. Henry starts at HB, McGahee starts at FB, they more or less split the number of carries, and Daimon "all I'm asked to do is block and I can't even do that" Shelton sits. Let's all face it, the traditional FB role has become obsolete.

[drnykterstein]

Wait...you're excusing a 12 year pro who has not been earning his contract for the past 29 games, but coming down hard on a fourth year pro who has gotten better each year despite this season's 4 mediocre starts?

 

   

81137[/snapback]

i'm not getting into a bledsoe debate. suffice to say i feel a lot of the problems he's had can be blamed on other things (example: a bad running game from henry)

[Guest Guest]

I can't believe some of you fans on this board; how you guys can jump on and off the ship so fast. I mean for the Bills sake I hope WM does well. But for god sakes he had one good game. I mean I kept note for at one point he had 23 for 75 yards, nothing special. But then he finished with 111 on 26 as he had a 31-yard run. While he ran hard, kept his feet moving and gain all those yards after contact, if you take away that run he only averaged 3.2 YPC. If Henry hadn't slipped on 3rd and 2, had a 20+ run and we had won that game against the Pats everybody be on his you know what; he finished with 98 yards as he ran hard from beginning to the end.

 

My biggest irk is that some seem to think WM is so much faster or a break away threat than TH. He hasn't showed me any explosiveness whatsoever this year. The 31 yard run he had was more impressive with the stiff arm he showed than his display of speed. He NEVER explodes into a hole or out off a cut making defenses respect his speed. TH hits the hole way faster and harder than WM. Now WM can get by with his patient running style read and react defenses but aggressive, penetrating defenses will stop him cold if he continues to hesitate at the LOS. With that being said WM is strong runner, hard to bring down, moves the pile much better than I expected; I thought he'd be more of a slasher type. He also is a much better blocker than TH. Next year he might be all that is advertised. But for anybody to think that at this point and moment that WM is head and shoulders, hands down better runner than TH after one game is ludicrous for they must have amnesia to the way TH has played the past 3 seasons.

 

It is a shame that the fans on this board can turn on Bills players so quick after one bad game or stretch. Think about, especially this year: Nate Clemens, Eric Moulds, Travis Henry London Fletcher, and Sam Adams has played consistently above average here for the past few years but once they have one bad play or game the fans here act like they are expendable and over rated. Some fans need to wake up a realized that one good play or game doesn't make a player a superstar or worthy of replacing a starter just as a bad play or game should send a major contributor to the bench. CONSISTENCY is the key...

80780[/snapback]

 

Bah, you can tell a LOT from one game. Look at Rob Johnson!

[Guest Guest_McJeff215_*]

Bah, you can tell a LOT from one game. Look at Rob Johnson!

81238[/snapback]

 

Me.. forgot to log in.

[Lori]

Either way, one shows the team doesn't rely on him, or it shows he isn't getting it done in the 4th.  Either way Travis has pretty much failed us running wise in the 4th quarter, by any statistic. 

 

He also continues to fail us in every quarter in every other aspect of what a running back should be doing.

81155[/snapback]

Again, I respectfully disagree with drawing conclusions based solely on the total yardage. I'll throw out some numbers of my own, from last season:

 

Scores after 3 quarters, plus the total number of TH carries, plus his 4Q carries:

Pats 21-0 (27 attempts, 9 in 4Q)

Jaguars 35-10 (21, 2 in 4Q)

Miami 0-10 (5, 0 in 4Q; OUT in 2Q)

Eagles 0-16 (DNP)

Bengals 13-6 (25, 5 in 4Q)

Jets 3-27 (18, 0 in 4Q)

Redskins 17-7 (31, 9 in 4Q)

Chiefs 5-28 (22, 4 in 4Q)

Cowboys 6-10 (21, 4 in 4Q)

Texans 8-9 (23, 3 in 4Q)

Colts 7-3 (22, 4 in 4Q)

Giants 24-7 (26, 9 in 4Q)

Jets 14-6 (32, 10 in 4Q)

Titans 17-14 (19, 5 in 4Q)

Dolphins 3-20 (24, 6 in 4Q)

Pats 0-28 (15, 3 in 4Q)

 

331 total carries, 73 (or 22%) in the 4th quarter. Fewer attempts, fewer yards.

 

The ypc stats were a better indicator; thanks for providing them.

[CircleTheWagons]

Again, I respectfully disagree with drawing conclusions based solely on the total yardage. I'll throw out some numbers of my own, from last season:

 

Scores after 3 quarters, plus the total number of TH carries, plus his 4Q carries:

Pats 21-0 (27 attempts, 9 in 4Q)

Jaguars 35-10 (21, 2 in 4Q)

Miami 0-10 (5, 0 in 4Q; OUT in 2Q)

Eagles 0-16 (DNP)

Bengals 13-6 (25, 5 in 4Q)

Jets 3-27 (18, 0 in 4Q)

Redskins 17-7 (31, 9 in 4Q)

Chiefs 5-28 (22, 4 in 4Q)

Cowboys 6-10 (21, 4 in 4Q)

Texans 8-9 (23, 3 in 4Q)

Colts 7-3 (22, 4 in 4Q)

Giants 24-7 (26, 9 in 4Q)

Jets 14-6 (32, 10 in 4Q)

Titans 17-14 (19, 5 in 4Q)

Dolphins 3-20 (24, 6 in 4Q)

Pats 0-28 (15, 3 in 4Q)

 

331 total carries, 73 (or 22%) in the 4th quarter. Fewer attempts, fewer yards.

 

The ypc stats were a better indicator; thanks for providing them.

81248[/snapback]

 

Debates like this are why I love TSW.

[Dawgg]

Bingo.

 

 

Again, I respectfully disagree with drawing conclusions based solely on the total yardage. I'll throw out some numbers of my own, from last season:

 

Scores after 3 quarters, plus the total number of TH carries, plus his 4Q carries:

Pats 21-0 (27 attempts, 9 in 4Q)

Jaguars 35-10 (21, 2 in 4Q)

Miami 0-10 (5, 0 in 4Q; OUT in 2Q)

Eagles 0-16 (DNP)

Bengals 13-6 (25, 5 in 4Q)

Jets 3-27 (18, 0 in 4Q)

Redskins 17-7 (31, 9 in 4Q)

Chiefs 5-28 (22, 4 in 4Q)

Cowboys 6-10 (21, 4 in 4Q)

Texans 8-9 (23, 3 in 4Q)

Colts 7-3 (22, 4 in 4Q)

Giants 24-7 (26, 9 in 4Q)

Jets 14-6 (32, 10 in 4Q)

Titans 17-14 (19, 5 in 4Q)

Dolphins 3-20 (24, 6 in 4Q)

Pats 0-28 (15, 3 in 4Q)

 

331 total carries, 73 (or 22%) in the 4th quarter. Fewer attempts, fewer yards.

 

The ypc stats were a better indicator; thanks for providing them.

81248[/snapback]

[VABills]

Bingo.

81273[/snapback]

Bingo was the YPC also went down in 4th quarter. Lori didn't like my stats of yards, but is agrreing that Travis sucks and can't get it done in the 4th.

[Lori]

Bingo was the YPC also went down in 4th quarter.  Lori didn't like my stats of yards, but is agrreing that Travis sucks and can't get it done in the 4th.

81285[/snapback]

Easy there - you won't catch me using that verb in regards to TH. And when I saw how many decent 4thQ runs of his were called back by OL penalties......

 

....sigh....

 

Still not that simple. There were games last year where TH did "get it done" in the fourth quarter, games where he didn't, and games where the other team was so far ahead (through no fault of Henry's) that he never got the chance... and at least one game where his 4thQ fumble helped decide the final outcome. With Travis, you learn to take the bad with the good, and I can understand how that drives people like you and Bill nuts.

 

Trouble is, there hasn't been a decent alternative the last couple of years - TH was playing hurt because an injured Henry was still better than his healthy backups. That's why I didn't like the suggestion of trading Henry during this season - if you do that, and something happens to Willis the following week, what's left at RB besides a couple of street FAs? Bleah. (Somebody called the Simoncast at the beginning of the week and suggested trading Henry would be OK because "we'd still have Joe Burns". Howard politely hung up on him. My sentiments exactly.)

 

Do we now have that alternative? He's only really had a sizable role in one game, but I liked what I saw of Willis vs. Miami. Can he keep it up? Only one way to find out - keep giving him more reps.

 

But for me, it's still too early to throw last year's team MVP under the bus.

[drnykterstein]

willis is the best because he won the topps game ball