Apology thread for Dick Jauron

[Pyrite Gal]

While you realize you cannot declare victory, you want your opponents to declare defeat.

 

Priceless.

 

 

 

Beautiful.

Exactly. I simply maintain that it is too early to declare victory at least until a Jauron team makes the playoffs. However, what I am giving folks a chance (if they are football knowlegable enough to take it) to do is declare defeat on the notion several folks offered that Jauron was a bad hire doomed to failure as demonstrated by their interpretation of his past record.

 

I think in 2+ years (not a mere 2 games) of improved performance in the ultimate stat, Ws, underlying activities like hiring and keeping good coaches (Jewell, April, and now it appears Schonert after hiring a clunker in Fairchild), participation in what appears to be some very good drafting, getting rid of some aging, injured and bad hair players (sorry TKO but it was time due to injury, sorry Fletch but your leadership stay coincided with little results, sorry Moulds it was great while it lasted but you did not take being surpassed by a younger talent with good grace, and goodbye WM you are a good player but don't let the door hit you on the way out, overall with Marv righting the ship of state after nothing less than a horrendous ending to the TD/MM era (it was bad because not only did this team lose into the double digit in games but with the demotion of Clements and the suspension of Moulds things were not only bad (5-11) but in fact the manner it happened was nothing less than horrendous, Jauron oversaw a very impressive turnaround.

 

One should be able to both see that it is to early to declare victory (I know this fan will not be happy with my Bills until we make the playoffs) but that one can declare defeat of an argument which some made that Jauron was a bad hire who had never done anything positive.

 

One should be able to see that the opposite of declaring victory would be to declare defeat of the notion that Jauron is a Bill Parcells. Jauron is not a Parcellian HC.

 

The defeat I declare is that of the notion that Jauron was a bad hire at the level of a Rich Kotite.

 

Though Jauron has not proven he is a football god he had proven he is not a stiff.

 

This was the contention that some seemed to want to make based on their assessment of his past record.

 

From their initial willingness to simply disregard his Coach of the Year success as either dumb luck or really other people's work to their unwillingness to see that he actually did some good work with a really bad franchise in Detroit (the smartest thing he did was to get out of Detroit as quickly as he could).

 

Declaring him Lombardi then (and even now based on his record) would be wrong. All I am saying is that declaring him Rich Kotite was wrong also and though his record of rebuilding the team nicely so far after 2+ years is not enough to declare victory it is enough to see that the early predictions of DDDOOOMMMM were wrong.

 

I would think folks who want their sage wisdom to be respected on TSW would welcome the opportunity as Bill fans and as TSW denizens to admit they were wrong.

[The Big Cat]

Personally, I believe the biggest mistake made by the Jauron detractors to date has been to ASSUME that the failure of his Chicago teams was primarily his doing, and to ignore all of the other factors that go into making a successful team. Additionally, they have characterized Jauron as an "overly conservative" coach without factoring the talent level of his teams. All in all, I just believe they've taken an overly simplistic view of Jauron as a coach, without much in the way of insight or appreciation for all of the circumstances involved.

 

I'm not going to call out anyone in particular for what I believe have been incredibly immature criticisms of the coach -- if they want to hop aboard the bandwagon and claim the team's success comes in spite of Jauron, so be it.

 

Ding Ding Ding! My thoughts exactly. It's always great fun to compare DJ's first five years to Bellecheat's first five years, epsecially on this topic. It seems then, and only then, does the minutia of a coach's record suddenly become relevant!

[BuffaloBill]

Great thread.

 

The best teams in the league have stability in their coaching staffs and front offices.

 

The only point you did not make in the original post that I would add is that it is a blessing to have the coach and the FO on the same page. No need to rehash history but we have not had this in a long time.

 

I say Jauron gets a three to five year extension.

[BillsVet]

Watching people fall over each other to apologize is so comical. I will say, there are a few who have summed up the DJ issue quite well.

 

I've never been a big fan of DJ for a few reasons, namely his inability to find quality coordinators. Crowton, Shoop, and Fairchild were not ready for their promotions to OC. Fewell as a DC has more weapons to work with in 08, but I think he needs to demonstrate some more success, especially after last season's debacles against Denver and Dallas

 

As for DJ, the true test begins now. They've got lightweights on the roster next with Oakland and at St. Louis. If DJ is the coach some are making him out to be, then I'd expect to see Buffalo win convincingly. Not like they did at Miami and the Jets last year when they scored 13 points in each game and barely came away with a "W."

 

As much as DJ apologists want us to forget and discount the past, it's who DJ was, and right now all of us are hoping he's changed. Coaches who are 50-67 entering the season need to win more than 2 games to show they're not what history suggests. With two games in the can, I'd like to see how DJ, Schonert, and Fewell can keep opponents guessing and tweak their gameplans.

[Heels20X6]

Watching people fall over each other to apologize is so comical. I will say, there are a few who have summed up the DJ issue quite well.

 

I've never been a big fan of DJ for a few reasons, namely his inability to find quality coordinators. Crowton, Shoop, and Fairchild were not ready for their promotions to OC. Fewell as a DC has more weapons to work with in 08, but I think he needs to demonstrate some more success, especially after last season's debacles against Denver and Dallas

 

 

All I ever wanted from any Bills coach is that the team go down fighting, win or lose, play all out on BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. Last year we had a defense that was decimated by injuries but yet the coaching strategy was to keep the games close in the hopes that the defense would make a game-changing play to help secure the win. Our offense was completely inept from Game 1 and the fact that Dick Jauron did not see that or his blind loyalty to Steve Fairchild is what soured me on him. In spite of this hurting defense, our offense (featuring not nearly as many injuries as the D and a revamped O-line) meekly went out each play with a playbook designed by a half-mentally stunted yelper monkey and proceeded to run, run, pass, punt our way to another mediocre record. We could go game by game and truly determine how many games the Bills actually could have won if they had a decently called offense. Instead we were saddled with the 31st best offense in the league. To not put that horrible statistic on Jauron would be a gross oversight.

 

How we fair against OAK and KC will be indicative of our season. If we go for the jugular and blow these teams out with our new WCO, then it's fair to say that Dick Jauron has turned a page and is willing to trust his offense.

[BillsVet]

Great thread.

 

The best teams in the league have stability in their coaching staffs and front offices.

 

The only point you did not make in the original post that I would add is that it is a blessing to have the coach and the FO on the same page. No need to rehash history but we have not had this in a long time.

 

I say Jauron gets a three to five year extension.

 

Stability alone does not a winner make. There are several examples of unchanged front offices which continue to lose. Oakland and Detroit come to mind. San Francisco has been similar for a few years.

 

At the same time, you've got a team like the Giants who transitioned at GM when Ernie Accorsi retired and Jerry Reese entered.

 

It's more than continuity or stability, it's having a front office that routinely makes good decisions and finds the right players and coaches.

[BillsVet]

All I ever wanted from any Bills coach is that the team go down fighting, win or lose, play all out on BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. Last year we had a defense that was decimated by injuries but yet the coaching strategy was to keep the games close in the hopes that the defense would make a game-changing play to help secure the win. Our offense was completely inept from Game 1 and the fact that Dick Jauron did not see that or his blind loyalty to Steve Fairchild is what soured me on him. In spite of this hurting defense, our offense (featuring not nearly as many injuries as the D and a revamped O-line) meekly went out each play with a playbook designed by a half-mentally stunted yelper monkey and proceeded to run, run, pass, punt our way to another mediocre record. We could go game by game and truly determine how many games the Bills actually could have won if they had a decently called offense. Instead we were saddled with the 31st best offense in the league. To not put that horrible statistic on Jauron would be a gross oversight.

 

How we fair against OAK and KC will be indicative of our season. If we go for the jugular and blow these teams out with our new WCO, then it's fair to say that Dick Jauron has turned a page and is willing to trust his offense.

 

Leadership from the HC isn't limited to just the players, it includes the coordinators and position coaches.

 

I didn't see DJ intercede when things on offense were clearly lacking. Instead, it seemed like most weeks were eerily similar with Buffalo scoring 20 points or less in 12 games.

 

DJ's strategy to keep games close has been his calling card for his entire career. He departed briefly from that against Seattle. I would hope he now trusts his defense more to enable the offense to take a chance now and then. They've got some quality opponents down the road who they can't afford to go ultra conservative with.

[K-9]

All I ever wanted from any Bills coach is that the team go down fighting, win or lose, play all out on BOTH SIDES OF THE BALL. Last year we had a defense that was decimated by injuries but yet the coaching strategy was to keep the games close in the hopes that the defense would make a game-changing play to help secure the win. Our offense was completely inept from Game 1 and the fact that Dick Jauron did not see that or his blind loyalty to Steve Fairchild is what soured me on him. In spite of this hurting defense, our offense (featuring not nearly as many injuries as the D and a revamped O-line) meekly went out each play with a playbook designed by a half-mentally stunted yelper monkey and proceeded to run, run, pass, punt our way to another mediocre record. We could go game by game and truly determine how many games the Bills actually could have won if they had a decently called offense. Instead we were saddled with the 31st best offense in the league. To not put that horrible statistic on Jauron would be a gross oversight.

 

How we fair against OAK and KC will be indicative of our season. If we go for the jugular and blow these teams out with our new WCO, then it's fair to say that Dick Jauron has turned a page and is willing to trust his offense.

 

The injuries on defense had a direct impact on the offensive philosophy especially in the early portion of last season. Then losing the starting QB and going with a rookie at the most critical offensive position complicated things even more. It would have been irresponsible of the coaches not to recognize the need to keep things close. We couldn't afford to get into shooting matches with teams. There was a big shift from the Fairchild of '06 to the Fairchild of '07. The decimated defense and inexperienced QB were the biggest reasons for that. And that's just the changes to the offense. Fewell was severely hampered in the schemes he wanted to run as well due to the lack of experienced personnel on defense. Add it all up on both sides of the ball and it's no surprise Jauron and Co. managed things like they did. We can disagree all we want but we were in more games than not and had a chance down the stretch.

 

It's easy now to say we should have opened it up but given our situation last season that would have been asking an awful lot out of a lot of inexperienced players. Maybe Edwards COULD have put up amazing stats, maybe Lynch COULD have done more, but it also may have been worse had we done that. Not in terms of offensive rankings but in terms of wins/losses.

 

GO BILLS!!!

[Cynical]

Exactly. I simply maintain that it is too early to declare victory at least until a Jauron team makes the playoffs. However, what I am giving folks a chance (if they are football knowlegable enough to take it) to do is declare defeat on the notion several folks offered that Jauron was a bad hire doomed to failure as demonstrated by their interpretation of his past record.

 

While looking at the past will not always predict the future, analyzing past performance does reveal trends and tendencies, especially those tendencies taken to correct problems that appear before, during, and after a season.

 

I think in 2+ years (not a mere 2 games) of improved performance in the ultimate stat, Ws, underlying activities like hiring and keeping good coaches (Jewell, April, and now it appears Schonert after hiring a clunker in Fairchild),

 

In an eerily similar situation in Chicago after the 2000 season, after 2 losing seasons, the OC quits the team to take on a college HC position. Jauron promotes the QB coach to OC. History shows how well that turned out.

 

Considering DJ did not interview even one outsider for the Bills OC spot (after Fairchild left for a HC position at a college), is the promotion of the Turk to the OC based on Jauron's ability to properly assess the needs of the OC spot, or he did just essentially pick the QB coach because that is what he is comfortable with doing?

 

'...overall with Marv righting the ship of state after nothing less than a horrendous ending to the TD/MM era (it was bad because not only did this team lose into the double digit in games but with the demotion of Clements and the suspension of Moulds things were not only bad (5-11) but in fact the manner it happened was nothing less than horrendous, Jauron oversaw a very impressive turnaround.

 

One should be able to both see that it is to early to declare victory (I know this fan will not be happy with my Bills until we make the playoffs) but that one can declare defeat of an argument which some made that Jauron was a bad hire who had never done anything positive.

 

And despite the "horrendous" ending of the TD/MM era, Levy attempted to retain MM. That brings into question just how "dire" the state of the Bills organization was in that you attempt to promote.

 

Further, if Bledsoe was not stymied by a bunch of defensive third stringers, the Bills would have made the playoffs under Mularkey. Would this have proved Mularkey was not a bad hire?

 

One should be able to see that the opposite of declaring victory would be to declare defeat of the notion that Jauron is a Bill Parcells. Jauron is not a Parcellian HC.

 

The defeat I declare is that of the notion that Jauron was a bad hire at the level of a Rich Kotite.

 

Though Jauron has not proven he is a football god he had proven he is not a stiff.

 

This was the contention that some seemed to want to make based on their assessment of his past record.

 

From their initial willingness to simply disregard his Coach of the Year success as either dumb luck or really other people's work to their unwillingness to see that he actually did some good work with a really bad franchise in Detroit (the smartest thing he did was to get out of Detroit as quickly as he could).

 

As it has been shown repeatedly, other coaches of questionable ability have also won Coach of The Year. Being a winner of the COTY proves nothing other than he won an award.

And he did not willing leave Detroit, he was FIRED.

 

Declaring him Lombardi then (and even now based on his record) would be wrong. All I am saying is that declaring him Rich Kotite was wrong also and though his record of rebuilding the team nicely so far after 2+ years is not enough to declare victory it is enough to see that the early predictions of DDDOOOMMMM were wrong.

 

I would think folks who want their sage wisdom to be respected on TSW would welcome the opportunity as Bill fans and as TSW denizens to admit they were wrong.

 

Previously in this thread, I declared my three benchmarks.

I set those benchmarks for a reason.

My desire is to see the Bills become a SB contender every year. Not just once every "x" years.

I will not accept playoff contender as "success", especially a coach/team that can only achieve it once every 'x' years.

 

Maybe my standards are just too high.

But I have seen people post here who are willing to accept Jauron back as a HC even if the Bills go 7-9 again, and that boggles my mind.

 

Are people so desperate for "success", or any semblance of success, they will talk themselves into accepting failure because they found something positive in it?

[ChasBB]

DJ didn't fire Fairchild - he left to become head coach at Colorado State.

 

QUICK EDIT - forgot to add, "And THANK GOD for that!"

This is also my primary concern w/Jouron. Why couldn't he see just how bad Fairchild was hurting this team? It's about winning and not about loyalty to your staff. Sure, you don't want a knee-jerk type of guy there either who fires 2 or 3 assistant coahes every year, but Fairchild was not showing any signs of improvement. If Buffalo wins a Super Bowl anytime in the next few years, we can all thank Colorado State because I question whether or not Jouron would have taken action on this matter. Oh, he probably would have AFTER a horrible 2008 season, but that's just too long to wait and suffer. Sometimes, you just got to pull the plug on a guy when it's obvious things are not working.

 

EDIT -- That said, there's a lot I do like about Jouron so I would like for him to stay around. I just wish he would be more decisive on matters like this. In this age of free agency, building Super Bowl teams is no longer a 4 or 5 year plan -- it's more like a 2-3 year plan and results need to happen quickly or else the HC gets fired. With that in mind, the HC needs to identify and fix staffing problems sooner rather than later.

[Beerball]

This is also my primary concern w/Jouron. Why couldn't he see just how bad Fairchild was hurting this team?

Why didn't he see that Jabari Greer could play corner?

Why didn't he see that Fred Jackson could run and catch?

 

I'm not a hater, but I'm not an apologist either. He's paid pretty darn good money by my standards. He'll get an extension and stability isn't a bad thing, but what happens when Fewell, Schonert and April have moved to greener pastures? Will Jauron be able to surround himself with similar talent? No more Fairchilds please.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Why didn't he see that Jabari Greer could play corner?

Why didn't he see that Fred Jackson could run and catch?

 

I'm not a hater, but I'm not an apologist either. He's paid pretty darn good money by my standards. He'll get an extension and stability isn't a bad thing, but what happens when Fewell, Schonert and April have moved to greener pastures? Will Jauron be able to surround himself with similar talent? No more Fairchilds please.

The idea would be to keep these guys here, no?

 

I find it kinda strange that as soon as we win two games, people here think the whole league will come and poach our coordinators in the offseason. Its going to take some time for these guys to build the kind of reputation needed to get a head coaching job somewhere else, or even for other teams to think them worthy of the raise associated with the Asst. Head Coach title.

 

The only guy who has a reputation right now is April, but another team would need to make him the head coach to steal him while he's under contract here. So as long as Ralph doesn't get cheap, there's no reason why we can't keep all three of these guys for awhile.

[Pyrite Gal]

Are people so desperate for "success", or any semblance of success, they will talk themselves into accepting failure because they found something positive in it?

This is exactly why I think it is to early for anyone to go off the deep end and declare Jauron a success. The original post did however offer folks who went off the deep end the other way and declared his hiring to be a mistake and to attempt to explain away any successes he showed as somehow being evidence of him being a loser.

 

2+ seasons are too early to declare him a success, but the improved results his first year, holding stable despite leading the league in players on the IR, participating in some good fundamentals like experiencing successful drafts so, and leading the team to a great start in his not blow-away way do indicate that extremely negative views about hiring Jauron were unfounded.

[The Dean]

This is also my primary concern w/Jouron. Why couldn't he see just how bad Fairchild was hurting this team? It's about winning and not about loyalty to your staff. Sure, you don't want a knee-jerk type of guy there either who fires 2 or 3 assistant coahes every year, but Fairchild was not showing any signs of improvement. If Buffalo wins a Super Bowl anytime in the next few years, we can all thank Colorado State because I question whether or not Jouron would have taken action on this matter. Oh, he probably would have AFTER a horrible 2008 season, but that's just too long to wait and suffer. Sometimes, you just got to pull the plug on a guy when it's obvious things are not working.

 

EDIT -- That said, there's a lot I do like about Jouron so I would like for him to stay around. I just wish he would be more decisive on matters like this. In this age of free agency, building Super Bowl teams is no longer a 4 or 5 year plan -- it's more like a 2-3 year plan and results need to happen quickly or else the HC gets fired. With that in mind, the HC needs to identify and fix staffing problems sooner rather than later.

 

 

Fairchild showed some flashes of competence in 2006. I think DJ saw him coming along, with many other elements of the team. By game 3, or so, of 2007, it was clear that Steve was a flop, at least to me. It never got too much better, either. Things looked a little better with Trent, as he was more suited to the style (for one) and Fairchild gave him outlet receivers (which he did not do for JP early in the season), and once again, it looked as though things may work out.

 

By the time it was obvious, to most, that Fairchild was a total bust (I decided long before, but I never liked his style) it was mid-season. I'm not sure it makes a whole lot of sense to fire an OC mid-season. But, you can take the play calling from him, that's for sure. My question at the time was, "who would call the plays?"

 

Anyway, mostly I agree with your assessment. I wasn't happy with the way Dick handled Steve (insert Dick joke here), either. But, I am convinced Fairchild would not have been back, this year, even if he didn't voluntary leave.

[Beerball]

The idea would be to keep these guys here, no?

 

I find it kinda strange that as soon as we win two games, people here think the whole league will come and poach our coordinators in the offseason. Its going to take some time for these guys to build the kind of reputation needed to get a head coaching job somewhere else, or even for other teams to think them worthy of the raise associated with the Asst. Head Coach title.

 

The only guy who has a reputation right now is April, but another team would need to make him the head coach to steal him while he's under contract here. So as long as Ralph doesn't get cheap, there's no reason why we can't keep all three of these guys for awhile.

Tell that to Mike Timlin. Or Mike Mularkey. Or Eric Mangini. I'm sure there are others who received HC jobs without long careers as coordinators. Once a coordinator is considered hot, and it only takes one season, they have to take their shot because another offer may never come or may be a long time in coming.

 

And, I'm not saying it'll happen this year or next, but if they are good, which we hope they are, it will happen.

[Beerball]

But, you can take the play calling from him, that's for sure. My question at the time was, "who would call the plays?"

Could have tried the QB coach.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

Tell that to Mike Timlin. Or Mike Mularkey. Or Eric Mangini. I'm sure there are others who received HC jobs without long careers as coordinators. Once a coordinator is considered hot, and it only takes one season, they have to take their shot because another offer may never come or may be a long time in coming.

 

And, I'm not saying it'll happen this year or next, but if they are good, which we hope they are, it will happen.

If they're as good as we hope, it'll happen eventually, yeah. But if they're THAT good, we'll have a few chances to win before it does.

 

Mike Mularkey spent three years as Pittsburgh's offensive coordinator, and coached two top-5 offenses in those three years. Also, we all know his connection with Donahoe helped him get the job.

 

Tomlin spent 5 years as Tampa's DBs coach under Dungy, and in those 5 seasons their defense never ranked worse than 6th overall. That includes two 1st overall rankings. Then he went to Minnesota, installed the Tampa 2 scheme he had learned from Dungy and Kiffin, and took the Vikes' D from 21st to 8th. That same year, his mentor, Dungy, won a Super Bowl, and another of Dungy's disciples, Lovie Smith, went 13-3. That coaching tree was hot at the time.

 

Mangini had a similar resume to Tomlin. He spent 5 seasons as a positional coach under a percieved genius (this time Belichick rather than Dungy), contributing to multiple high-ranking units in that time, and had a year as a coordinator under his belt. And like Tomlin (and unlike the Bills' coordinators), Mangini was working as part of a high-profile 'coaching tree,' that had already produced a couple of branches.

 

These are credentials that our guys just can't match at this time.

 

Could other teams eventually become interested in Fewell and Schonert? Absolutely. But there is certainly no 'Dick Jauron coaching tree' to help generate that interest. They're starting from scratch: its going to take a few years of these guys putting high-ranking units on the field to get people talking.

 

Or they could go the short way, and win a championship...and regardless of the chances that our coordinators would leave afterwards, I don't think you or I would be worrying about ANYTHING if that happened.

[Beerball]

Could other teams eventually become interested in Fewell and Schonert? Absolutely. But there is certainly no 'Dick Jauron coaching tree' to help generate that interest. They're starting from scratch: its going to take a few years of these guys putting high-ranking units on the field to get people talking.

That is a very good point.

[kota]

Jauron needs to win a playoff game. The bears went 13-3 and lost the first playoff game if i remember correctly. Even after the win against Jacksonville i am still concerned with Jauron's style. He still seems conservative to me. The last field goal drive done by the Bills is a good example of that. Roscoe has a great return and then the Bills run their way to a field goal. It still put Jacksonville in a position to win the game with a TD. In my opinion good teams put in that situation would go for the TD.

[ChasBB]

Jauron needs to win a playoff game. The bears went 13-3 and lost the first playoff game if i remember correctly. Even after the win against Jacksonville i am still concerned with Jauron's style. He still seems conservative to me. The last field goal drive done by the Bills is a good example of that. Roscoe has a great return and then the Bills run their way to a field goal. It still put Jacksonville in a position to win the game with a TD. In my opinion good teams put in that situation would go for the TD.

I hear what you are saying, but forcing the opponent to score a TD with less than 30 seconds left is pretty good, too. You definitely don't want to turn the ball over and have the opponent beat you with just a field goal. That said, it would have been nice to see at least one shot to the endzone and a throw-away by the QB if nothing is there.