BillsVet Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 A new stadium in Buffalo will not increase revenue. No one in Buffalo will pay a PSL and you can not raise the price of tickets and luxury boxes high enough to offset the expense of a new stadium. Not all new stadiums have PSL's. The Giants/Jets new field won't charge PSL's in the same way either. NYG will have PSL's for the entire place, while NYJ will only charge the lower bowl. Besides, someone mentioned that the bubble could burst for the NFL in the next few years. I'd say if teams can't win year after year (and few can) that PSL's might push enough fans away. Some NFL owners act as though their product is bulletproof and PSL's will be bought up regardless. I can see that changing in the next few years. New stadiums equate to greater revenue. It's why the Colts are worth $1B+ this season, when last year they were in the 20s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
buzzbait1965 Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Looked but couldn't find anything about the show on line. Did find a NY Times article that said the Carolina Panthers started it and now charge between $3,000 and $20,000 and Dallas is as high as $150,000 for their new stadium. I'm guessing those are luxury box seats or something. I know one thing I'd have to be getting something more than food, booze and a ticket to pay that much money just for the right to pay for the season ticket on top of that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Not all new stadiums have PSL's. The Giants/Jets new field won't charge PSL's in the same way either. NYG will have PSL's for the entire place, while NYJ will only charge the lower bowl. Besides, someone mentioned that the bubble could burst for the NFL in the next few years. I'd say if teams can't win year after year (and few can) that PSL's might push enough fans away. Some NFL owners act as though their product is bulletproof and PSL's will be bought up regardless. I can see that changing in the next few years. New stadiums equate to greater revenue. It's why the Colts are worth $1B+ this season, when last year they were in the 20s. I agree somewhat but revenues increase because the price of everything in the stadium has increased. My point is that you could build a new stadium in Buffalo but can not increase the price of tickets the way the Colts, Jets/Giants and Cowboys will. I will do some research but check out the ticket prices for the stadiums. No way any of us would pay over $300.00 per game. http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa...m.78cb8324.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 I agree somewhat but revenues increase because the price of everything in the stadium has increased. My point is that you could build a new stadium in Buffalo but can not increase the price of tickets the way the Colts, Jets/Giants and Cowboys will. I will do some research but check out the ticket prices for the stadiums. No way any of us would pay over $300.00 per game.http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa...m.78cb8324.html Even wealthy Toronto won't pay that price. Thanks for posting the new figures. They certainly look worse, especially in income, where the Bills only earn $12M (no idea if that includes T.O. money) Either way it shows while Ralph ain't broke or losing money, they way things are trending, it's not a clear future for the Bills in Buffalo, or for that matter how much more blood the NFL can squeeze from its stones. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buftex Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Anybody see the latest RealSports on HBO? The first segment on NY Giants' 2009 ticket prices? The PSLs, etc? Is the bubble about to burst? That was a great (if not depressing) piece. If you have HBO On Demand, watch it. I got a real anxious feeling in my stomach when I was watching it. The fianancial analyst said what I have said for a few years, things like Stub Hub are legitimizing ticket gouging....when ownership can see for themselves what people are willing to pay for the tickets they have been selling for far less, there is no reason for them not to raise their prices. I can't fathom the prices they said people were paying to see baseball games. When I lived in NYC in the 80's/early 90's, we could go to a Yankees game for about $12. Those same tickets are now closer to $100-150! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 It does bother me when Ralph seems to suggest this team is losing 20M/year b/c the market is terrible. Ralph has never said he's losing money....ever. What he does object to is the unshared cash flow that large market teams and/or those with new stadiums have to use as signing bonus amunition against the small market franchises. When Dallas' wants to sign a FA and structure the deal with a large up-front bonus, Jerry Jones justs skims a bit a money off the top of his suite/seat license pot of gold and throws it into the offer. For the Bills to match that offer, Ralph has to pull the up-front cash out of his wallet, rather than the team's operating cash flow. Essentially, he's dipping into his net worth, where Jones is just expensing it on the Cowboy's income statement. Advantage: Dallas. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Yeah, those licensing fees for seats is so incredible. What a ridiculous cash grab. What was the Giants one again? Like $1000 one-time fee? Insane. There are enough folks in the NYC metro area that light their cigars with $1000 bills to keep the Giants in business for a long, long time... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsVet Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 I agree somewhat but revenues increase because the price of everything in the stadium has increased. My point is that you could build a new stadium in Buffalo but can not increase the price of tickets the way the Colts, Jets/Giants and Cowboys will. I will do some research but check out the ticket prices for the stadiums. No way any of us would pay over $300.00 per game.http://www.wfaa.com/sharedcontent/dws/wfaa...m.78cb8324.html Not every team can get away with what the Cowgirls do. It's not the standard of how things are done league-wide, and most markets cannot support it. I daresay most of the teams in the lower half of the league revenue list on Forbes couldn't get close to Dallas' ambitious PSL plan. Big market teams are quickly distancing themselves from the smaller ones. When a new stadium opens, teams can charge much more for tickets, particularly luxury boxes. Comparing Dallas, the NYC teams, and Washington to Buffalo is a non-sequitur. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nucci Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Ralph has never said he's losing money....ever. What he does object to is the unshared cash flow that large market teams and/or those with new stadiums have to use as signing bonus amunition against the small market franchises. When Dallas' wants to sign a FA and structure the deal with a large up-front bonus, Jerry Jones justs skims a bit a money off the top of his suite/seat license pot of gold and throws it into the offer. For the Bills to match that offer, Ralph has to pull the up-front cash out of his wallet, rather than the team's operating cash flow. Essentially, he's dipping into his net worth, where Jones is just expensing it on the Cowboy's income statement. Advantage: Dallas. Also, that unshared cash flow raises the salary cap for all teams. That is another of his complaints. How can unshared money raise the cap? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lurker Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Also, that unshared cash flow raises the salary cap for all teams. That is another of his complaints. How can unshared money raise the cap? Excellent question, Watson! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 They said Stub Hub is one of the worst things that ever happened to the fans. It gave the owners the info they needed to see what the market would bare as far as prices and the owners are now raising the prices to reflect what people are willing to pay for a ticket. Using Stub Hub as a price guide is a guaranteed over stated price. Those buying on Stub Hub are those willing to pay for individual games not whole seasons and there will always be games which are high sellers and those which are low sellers. You can find outrageous prices paid because someone was going to go to one game and willing to pay through the roof but that does not mean they can get that kind of money for all of the seats. Best way for teams like the Bills to make more money is to divide seats up more and find some way to charge more for more popular games. That and find a way to get a share of those outrageous $7 - $10 beers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillsWatch Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Also, that unshared cash flow raises the salary cap for all teams. That is another of his complaints. How can unshared money raise the cap? Because of the dumb agreement made with NFLPA but 30 of 32 owners. Players wanted a share of the money and rich teams did not so they waived their hands like congress does and have an agreement which will not work but satisfied the NFLPA and gang of four. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ned Flanders Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 That was a great (if not depressing) piece. If you have HBO On Demand, watch it. I got a real anxious feeling in my stomach when I was watching it. Watching that Giant fan say "It's over," was very depressing...because I'm not too far from that guy's position. I'm not a season ticket holder, but my DTV Sunday Ticket is now north of $300, with SuperFan and all...It's really getting out of hand, and sometime soon I fear I'm going to start sounding like that Giant fan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
marauderswr80 Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Giants fans are getting robbed. Would you Bills fans ever pay that extra fee? Noway I would Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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