In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 49ers put Smith on IR The San Francisco 49ers put quarterback Alex Smith on injured reserve on Wednesday with a broken bone in his right shoulder, probably ending the former No. 1 draft pick's disappointing four-year career with the club. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mark Long Beach Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 49ers put Smith on IR It just seems a little more commonplace for QBs to suck it up. Or maybe it just feels harder because Mike Williams was OUR bust. It just seems less of a surprise that ASmith was a bust. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bladiebla Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 They signed Jamie Martin to replace him which takes the number of former Amsterdam Admirals quarterbacks on their roster to 2, funnily enough they both sit behind Amsterdams archrival Frankfurt Galaxy' former quarterback JT O'Sullivan. Edit: and yes bladiebla throwing NFL Europe facts and things at you when you least expect it untill you guys all start begging scumbag Goodell to restart NFL Europe, which he won't so get used to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 And yet we will still have people howl how we should draft the next big college QB hype. I think Tim Tebow is the flavor of 2008. There are more Alex Smiths than Peyton Mannings. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 It just seems a little more commonplace for QBs to suck it up. Or maybe it just feels harder because Mike Williams was OUR bust. It just seems less of a surprise that ASmith was a bust. I agree. I think when drafting a QB at the top of round one, everybody knows its a 50/50 shot and the player could be great, or could be playing Arena football in 3 years. But an offensive lineman? How many times does THAT happen? That's more of a shock than Alex Smith. Smith came out of Utah, ran the spread offense, and if his first receiver wasn't open he ran. He also almost never took snaps from under center, he was in the shotgun 80% of the time. But how hard is it for a lineman to block people and go from college to pro, especially at one of the top colleges and programs in the country where he faced the best competition. Williams is a bigger disappointment, IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted September 10, 2008 Author Share Posted September 10, 2008 I agree. I think when drafting a QB at the top of round one, everybody knows its a 50/50 shot and the player could be great, or could be playing Arena football in 3 years. But an offensive lineman? How many times does THAT happen? That's more of a shock than Alex Smith. Smith came out of Utah, ran the spread offense, and if his first receiver wasn't open he ran. He also almost never took snaps from under center, he was in the shotgun 80% of the time. But how hard is it for a lineman to block people and go from college to pro, especially at one of the top colleges and programs in the country where he faced the best competition. Williams is a bigger disappointment, IMO. you're right, I was just looking at #1 draft overall vs #4 and lots of QBs never make it. But there's always Robert Gallery... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NorCal Aaron Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Niners are complicit. They gave Mike Nolan, a defensive coach with no track record of developing young qbs and no front office experience, the keys to the castle. 4 offensive coordinators in 4 years, horrible ownership, and mostly 2rd rate offensive talent, sealed the deal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 you're right, I was just looking at #1 draft overall vs #4 and lots of QBs never make it. But there's always Robert Gallery... Robert Gallery might not be a Pro Bowl, have him for 12 years at LT kind of guy, but he's a starting lineman in this league. Mike Williams can't even make an NFL roster. There's a HUGE difference. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MartyBall4Buffalo Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Here's a question something I was discussing with some friends of mine. Is the spread option offense in college a detriment to determining NFL quality prospects? Personally I think it is. I believe it makes it harder to accurately scout skill position players like wr/qb/oline and even rb. QB- Reads are terribly simplified. Will constantly see nickle and dime defenses, will hardly if ever have a wr that is double covered. Will rarely see blitzes or exotic fronts. RB- Due to the spread will hardly ever be in a spot, where he's seeing 8-9 man fronts. Blitz pickup not much of an issue. Will generally have an innordinate amount of 10-20 yard runs, because of the nickle/dime defenses the spread option creates wr- Will hardly ever see double coverage. Zone is pretty much out of the question. It's beat your one man, and you're in good position. Take someone like Percy Harvin for instance. How do you judge Harvin as an nfl prospect? These spread option teams run the same 4-5 plays over and over. Yeah if you're a fan of a college team. I get winning is what matters blah blah blah. There's no way this stuff ever works in the pros. You can't use Harvin lined up behind center, taking direct snaps, running off tackle. Sure he's fast, but it's a gimmick offense that lacks quality. I think in the coming years you will see 3-5 star recruits shy away from teams that run this offense, if they have any kind of nfl aspirations. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ans4e64 Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Take someone like Percy Harvin for instance. How do you judge Harvin as an nfl prospect? These spread option teams run the same 4-5 plays over and over. Yeah if you're a fan of a college team. I get winning is what matters blah blah blah. There's no way this stuff ever works in the pros. You can't use Harvin lined up behind center, taking direct snaps, running off tackle. Sure he's fast, but it's a gimmick offense that lacks quality. I think in the coming years you will see 3-5 star recruits shy away from teams that run this offense, if they have any kind of nfl aspirations. You are just looking for the tools. There is no way that in any college offense, spread included, pro scouts know what is happening in the huddle, the play that was called vs what actually happened, and so on. You are looking to see tools: How is Percy's route running? What kind of routes is he running/can he run effectively? If he's only running a limited number of routes (which is the problem with a lot of big-time college receivers), how does he run them in your personal workouts? The key to getting open in the NFL and running good routes is making every route look the same to the DB. Does he have telling signs in his breaks or cuts? How does he get off the line of scrimmage when there's press coverage? Things of that nature. Is he a coachable kid? What is his attitude. This is where the personal interviews and talking with his college coaches and family comes into play. Is he a team guy? If he runs poor routes, is it because he wasn't asked to do so? Can he learn/is he willing to listen? How are his hands? This is hard to determine based on the different type of QB the WR has throwing to him. Where is he catching the balls? Are they right in his hands every time, or does he have to constantly reach out/up/down/behind? What is the arm of the QB like? Is he catching balls from a weak armed QB or a strong one? There are so many things that matter regardless of the style of offense he is in. These are off the top of my head, I don't pretend to be a pro scout, but regardless of what system they run, you are looking for these types of things. Obviously it help to tailor fit players in similar schemes to your NFL style offense, but its not the end-all. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
In-A-Gadda-Levitre Posted September 11, 2008 Author Share Posted September 11, 2008 Robert Gallery might not be a Pro Bowl, have him for 12 years at LT kind of guy, but he's a starting lineman in this league. Mike Williams can't even make an NFL roster. There's a HUGE difference. ya, I was being a wiseazz, they're totally different Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkyMannn Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 a coach with no track record of developing young qbs and no front office experience, the keys to the castle. 4 offensive coordinators in 4 years, horrible ownership, and mostly 2rd rate offensive talent, sealed the deal. Are we still talking Alex Smith, or JP Losman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truth on hold Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 That was a very stupid pick. They drafted based on need rather than available talent in what was a very bad draft year for QB talent. That just doesn't work at the QB position. They should have gone with a vet for another year and waited to see who was available next year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffalOhio Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 It just seems a little more commonplace for QBs to suck it up. Or maybe it just feels harder because Mike Williams was OUR bust. It just seems less of a surprise that ASmith was a bust. I think at Utah he was a product of Urban Meyer's system rather than being a great pro prospect. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ndirish1978 Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Robert Gallery might not be a Pro Bowl, have him for 12 years at LT kind of guy, but he's a starting lineman in this league. Mike Williams can't even make an NFL roster. There's a HUGE difference. Gallery now plays guard. You know a lot of guards who make 10M a year and get drafted top 5? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lets_go_bills Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Poor San Fran. $50 million down the toilet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyrite Gal Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Are we still talking Alex Smith, or JP Losman? The JP/Smith connection is that TD traded the Bills first round pick in 2005 in order to take Losman in 2004 because he judged the Bills as having such a clear need for a QB of the future (even though TD made a huge error in extending Bledsoe's contract after a horrendous 2003 campaign he had to know DB would not last forever even if he foolishly believed DB would mount a comeback similar to the one which saw him reach the Pro Bowl after the 2002 season after he was gotten rid of by NE). TD seemed to make the judgment that JP drafted in 04 with a year on the bench behind Bledsoe was a better option that likely the first QB taken in 05 (Smith). Say what you want about JP but I think it is pretty clear that given the sad performance of Smith. the TD strategy was the correct one as far as the draft. I think the problem was that rapid promotion to starter status after TD realized the extension of Bledsoe was stupid was undeserved (even JP said this himself). The poor player development approach taken by the Bills with JP which saw his first OC Clements get demoted midseason, his first HC MM get the kibosh, his third OC Fairchild fail to produce a consistent O as he tried to force JP who is a run for your life improvise QB into the NFL straitjacket was simply bad. It certainly cam be argued that JP has inherent flaws which make him DDOOOMMEEDD to fail at QB, but any person who watches football and understands it also has to admit that the Smith failures make the JP draft strategy at least look like a better idea than depending on any consensus early 1st round QB pick at the time or depending on us finding some Tom Brady later in the draft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain Hindsight Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 The JP/Smith connection is that TD traded the Bills first round pick in 2005 in order to take Losman in 2004 because he judged the Bills as having such a clear need for a QB of the future (even though TD made a huge error in extending Bledsoe's contract after a horrendous 2003 campaign he had to know DB would not last forever even if he foolishly believed DB would mount a comeback similar to the one which saw him reach the Pro Bowl after the 2002 season after he was gotten rid of by NE). TD seemed to make the judgment that JP drafted in 04 with a year on the bench behind Bledsoe was a better option that likely the first QB taken in 05 (Smith). Say what you want about JP but I think it is pretty clear that given the sad performance of Smith. the TD strategy was the correct one as far as the draft. I think the problem was that rapid promotion to starter status after TD realized the extension of Bledsoe was stupid was undeserved (even JP said this himself). The poor player development approach taken by the Bills with JP which saw his first OC Clements get demoted midseason, his first HC MM get the kibosh, his third OC Fairchild fail to produce a consistent O as he tried to force JP who is a run for your life improvise QB into the NFL straitjacket was simply bad. It certainly cam be argued that JP has inherent flaws which make him DDOOOMMEEDD to fail at QB, but any person who watches football and understands it also has to admit that the Smith failures make the JP draft strategy at least look like a better idea than depending on any consensus early 1st round QB pick at the time or depending on us finding some Tom Brady later in the draft. Agree on counts. Like or Not trading up for JP was the best move we could have done. He was mishandled once he got year, another year of seasoning might have done him alot of good but trading up was the right move Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dante Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Niners are complicit. They gave Mike Nolan, a defensive coach with no track record of developing young qbs and no front office experience, the keys to the castle. 4 offensive coordinators in 4 years, horrible ownership, and mostly 2rd rate offensive talent, sealed the deal. Totally agree. Odds were really stacked against Smith. Starting in his first year on a horrible team with no offensive line wasn't a good idea either.imho I kinda like Smith. Hopefully he can reboot his career elsewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2003Contenders Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 That 2005 draft wasn't a very good one - and it was even seen AT THE TIME as a weak crop. Three RBs going in the first 5 picks -- all three of whom had sizeable question marks -- tells you something. That is one of the main reasons why Modrak and Donahoe were content to trade that #1 pick to move up in 2004 for JP. I remember at the time that there were discussions that had JP been available in 2005 instead of 2004, he may have been the top pick. Of course, there will be those who say that we could have just waited, used our 2nd round pick in 2004 on an OL/DL and taken Aaron Rodgers with our own original 2005 pick. Maybe. But hindsight is 20/20 and who is to say how well Rodgers would have fared if put in the same position as JP? Moreover, the verdict is still out on Rodgers too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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