Johnny Coli Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 And if they camp it up it's probably going to suck. If they do away with the uber-nationalism in Captain America they might as well not even make the movie, since that is one of the major themes. Since it's set in WWII, you should probably be prepared to be disappointed. So you're agreeing with me. There's no way to make this movie without it coming across as dumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PastaJoe Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 I'll only see it if they do away with the uber-nationalism nonsense. It's not going to translate well in 2008 unless they tone it down. Cap is more of a libertarian than a conservative, he takes the Constitution seriously and not just the parts that fit an agenda, so he could come across as opposing uber-nationalism in the U.S., since that is what led to Hitler's rise to power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Cap is more of a libertarian than a conservative, he takes the Constitution seriously and not just the parts that fit an agenda, so he could come across as opposing uber-nationalism in the U.S., since that is what led to Hitler's rise to power. That's the 60's CA, if I'm remebering it right. The original CA was no more than a propaganda prop. Seriously, a Super-Soldier draped in the US flag in 2008 is going to look pretty stupid. How are they going to pull off his being a libertarian? Is the shield going to have Ron Paul's face on it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 So you're agreeing with me. There's no way to make this movie without it coming across as dumb. No, I'm not agreeing. I think it's fine to do it in the WWII nationalistic pride theme. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 No, I'm not agreeing. I think it's fine to do it in the WWII nationalistic pride theme. You're not doing a very good job in selling this movie. This is 2008. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 You're not doing a very good job in selling this movie. This is 2008. Not sure I get your point. I'm not trying to sell the movie to you. But the fact is that it's set in WWII, so IMO the nationalistic pride angle will work fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 Not sure I get your point. I'm not trying to sell the movie to you. But the fact is that it's set in WWII, so IMO the nationalistic pride angle will work fine. My point is no one is going to flock to a movie based in WWII where the main character is a propaganda tool to sell nationalism, unless they do something to make it relevant to today. The "WWII Nationalist Pride Theme" combined with a white Super-Soldier wrapped in the American flag will turn more people off than make them want to go. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heels20X6 Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 My point is no one is going to flock to a movie based in WWII where the main character is a propaganda tool to sell nationalism, unless they do something to make it relevant to today. The "WWII Nationalist Pride Theme" combined with a white Super-Soldier wrapped in the American flag will turn more people off than make them want to go. There was a great storyline one time in Captain America (not sure if it was actually in the timeline or one of those alternate universe lines) but it revolved around Captain America being a patriotic distraction by the US government and media. Trumping him up and his heroic actions in the media all the while the corrupt US government was ordering attrocities across the world. When Rogers finds out he becomes disillusioned and downtrodden but then realizes its his job as Cap to bring down the government for the sake of America. In the end the president turned out to be the Red Skull. It was really well written and for the life of me I can't remember who did it. That kind of storyline would play well with the general mistrust America has right now for the media and government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 10, 2008 Share Posted September 10, 2008 My point is no one is going to flock to a movie based in WWII where the main character is a propaganda tool to sell nationalism, unless they do something to make it relevant to today. The "WWII Nationalist Pride Theme" combined with a white Super-Soldier wrapped in the American flag will turn more people off than make them want to go. I think people will definitely want to throw away the weight of modern day cynicism and escape into a time where there was a distinctive good & evil in the world. Where a true hero of the day who epitomizes what 'should' be stands as a beacon of light in a time where evil threatens to conquer the world. A bit poetic.....but the movie could be escapism at its best. 'Propaganda tool to sell nationalism' can soooo easily be put across as 'Symbol of hope for the people'. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 My point is no one is going to flock to a movie based in WWII where the main character is a propaganda tool to sell nationalism, unless they do something to make it relevant to today. The "WWII Nationalist Pride Theme" combined with a white Super-Soldier wrapped in the American flag will turn more people off than make them want to go. It's a Captain America movie, a follow-up of sorts to the highly successful Iron-Man movie, and a prequel to The Avengers movie. All they have to do is not fugg it up - such as completely change the backstory or cast a black actor as the lead - and they will have no problem hitting good box office numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 I'd like to think our country is past the point where anyone cares about the race of the actor who plays a comic book character. You're probably right: Captain American is white, and if they can't find a suitable white actor to fill the role, then they shouldn't make the movie. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 That's fine, you can paint my comment as ignorant or racist, but it's not the case. I simply prefer when movie adaptations are made of established characters/comics/stories that the directors/producers don't take creative license liberties with crucial details of the story, and I consider the main character's race as a critical part of the story. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 That's fine, you can paint my comment as ignorant or racist, but it's not the case. I simply prefer when movie adaptations are made of established characters/comics/stories that the directors/producers don't take creative license liberties with crucial details of the story, and I consider the main character's race as a critical part of the story. The new Nick Fury is played by Samuel L. Jackson. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 That's fine, you can paint my comment as ignorant or racist, but it's not the case. I simply prefer when movie adaptations are made of established characters/comics/stories that the directors/producers don't take creative license liberties with crucial details of the story, and I consider the main character's race as a critical part of the story. Maybe they could just paint Will Smith white, kinda like the old days of the western, when they'd paint white guys to look like Indians. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fingon Posted September 11, 2008 Share Posted September 11, 2008 Would you make Shaft white? How about turning spider-man into spider-woman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 The new Nick Fury is played by Samuel L. Jackson. Which is really cool.....The Ultimate line of Marvel comics used Sam Jackson as the model for Fury(both physical & personality). For the modern Nick Fury it doesn't effect the character at all. It is only if they decide(stupidly) to link him back to his Sgt. Fury days in WWII that it would make no sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bmwolf21 Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 The new Nick Fury is played by Samuel L. Jackson. Which is really cool.....The Ultimate line of Marvel comics used Sam Jackson as the model for Fury(both physical & personality). For the modern Nick Fury it doesn't effect the character at all. It is only if they decide(stupidly) to link him back to his Sgt. Fury days in WWII that it would make no sense. So that's fine with me. I'm not a S.H.I.E.L.D./Nick Fury fan, so if they - Marvel Comics - changed the character's appearance to follow Samuel L. Jackson's physical and personality characteristics, then I'd expect them to use Jackson (or another black actor) in that role. But I also think CA is much more iconic than Fury, so I think there would be more outrage with a black CA than a white Nick Fury. (or black? now I'm confusing myself.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
R. Rich Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 Would you make Shaft white? Yes. How about turning spider-man into spider-woman? Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johnny Coli Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 So that's fine with me. I'm not a S.H.I.E.L.D./Nick Fury fan, so if they - Marvel Comics - changed the character's appearance to follow Samuel L. Jackson's physical and personality characteristics, then I'd expect them to use Jackson (or another black actor) in that role. But I also think CA is much more iconic than Fury, so I think there would be more outrage with a black CA than a white Nick Fury. (or black? now I'm confusing myself.) Who'd be outraged? A handfull of CA fans? Sgt. Nick Fury started out in the WWII time period. Cap America started out in the WWII time period. Why is it acceptable to have a black Nick Fury, but it would cause outrage to have a black CA? Doesn't make sense. And I know some comic-book afficionado is going to say "Marvel released a series based on the Sam Jackson re-wroking of Fury." So? I can guarantee you the majority of the movie-going public wouldn't/didn't care that Marvel put out a Nick Fury Sam Jackson issue. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted September 12, 2008 Share Posted September 12, 2008 This discussion (IMO) may be one of the most idiotic ever on TBD, and worse yet it doesn't have the comedy of exchange rates, pasta salad, telephone poles or retatta. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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