Beerball Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Terrible terrible call by an official costs Washington.
Beerball Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 ...but still stupid on the players part. He didn't taunt, he was excited & he threw the ball up over his head. Wouldn't you be (excited)? Score a TD at the end of the game? OT here we come!!! I am interested to hear what the 'official' word is regarding this call.
inkman Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 He didn't taunt, he was excited & he threw the ball up over his head. Wouldn't you be (excited)? Score a TD at the end of the game? OT here we come!!! I am interested to hear what the 'official' word is regarding this call. Yes I would have been equally as excited but society has championed self absorbed celebrations. NCAAFB is trying to dissuade players from these types of celebrations. You know coaches have been schooling players on what is acceptable and tossing the ball 50 feet in the air just isn't.
Bmwolf21 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Yes I would have been equally as excited but society has championed self absorbed celebrations. NCAAFB is trying to dissuade players from these types of celebrations. You know coaches have been schooling players on what is acceptable and tossing the ball 50 feet in the air just isn't. Bottom line is it's a schitty rule that is overly broad in it's definition and enforcement, and in this case they penalized a kid's spontaneous celebration of the possible game-tying score with :02 to go. He didn't taunt anyone, didn't throat slash, didn't throw the ball at a BYU player, and didn't do a previously-choreographed dance routine or stunt. He jumped up and got excited after making a huge play to possibly tie the game. Yeah, he's clearly out of control and has no respect for the game, and needs to be punished.
Beerball Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 Yes I would have been equally as excited but society has championed self absorbed celebrations. NCAAFB is trying to dissuade players from these types of celebrations. You know coaches have been schooling players on what is acceptable and tossing the ball 50 feet in the air just isn't. So you feel that the rule was enforced as intended? It is a judgement call, no? Shouldn't that judgement (by the ref) include the game situation? A tying TD 2:00 into a game is not the same as a tying TD 59:58 into a game.
inkman Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 He jumped up and got excited after making a huge play to possibly tie the game. ...and threw the ball over his head, way the !@#$ over his head. Had he just tossed it over his shoulder as one announcer described it, he would not have been penalized. So you feel that the rule was enforced as intended? It is a rule and it was enforced. Dude should know better. Just like if you get busted for doing 34 MPH in a 30 MPH zone. Is it stupid? Yes. Can you be punished for it. Yes.
ans4e64 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Its not as if they moved the kick back and then they missed it. It was blocked. The defense earned it. It doesn't matter where the ball would or should have been on the field. It was blocked. The refs did not "cost" them anything. Not protecting the extra point did.
Beerball Posted September 7, 2008 Author Posted September 7, 2008 Its not as if they moved the kick back and then they missed it. It was blocked. The defense earned it. It doesn't matter where the ball would or should have been on the field. It was blocked. You could be right, but the farther the kick the lower they boot it. Can't remember the last time I saw an extra point blocked (normal length), but I'm sure it happens.
Acantha Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Its not as if they moved the kick back and then they missed it. It was blocked. The defense earned it. It doesn't matter where the ball would or should have been on the field. It was blocked. The refs did not "cost" them anything. Not protecting the extra point did. This is exactly what I've been thinking. It's not like the refs said, "You celebrated, you lose!" All Washington had to do was kick a mid-range field goal to win the game. And it wasn't blocked due to a low angle, it was smothered. That was a block from any point on the field. And while I do agree it was the correct call based on the rules, I think the rule needs to be looked at. It should state that it's up to the refs to decide whether the act is done to draw attention to ones self. In this case it clearly wasn't. He threw the ball up without giving it a second thought and celebrated with his team, which is allowed by rule. Bad, or at least incomplete, rule imo, but I think it was called correctly by the refs.
The Poojer Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 the rule states, (sic)"...the ball shall not be thrown high into the air..." i think we need to get lawyers involved to define "high"...it was a bullschmidt call and the refs should be ashamed, do not take the outcome of the game out of the hands of the players....and for all y'all saying all he had to do was make the kick....BS....when you score a TD, you need to make a 20(?) yd kick, not a 35 yd kick....BS BS BS.....and I dont even care about either team....BS....they are freaking kids for christsake, not nfl players....they are 1-4 years older than my "baby".... Terrible terrible call by an official costs Washington.
Bmwolf21 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 ...and threw the ball over his head, way the !@#$ over his head. Had he just tossed it over his shoulder as one announcer described it, he would not have been penalized. It is a rule and it was enforced. Dude should know better. Just like if you get busted for doing 34 MPH in a 30 MPH zone. Is it stupid? Yes. Can you be punished for it. Yes. Come on, ink, you know that's complete bullschitt. The rule is garbage, and it directly affected the outcome of this game. Was he showing up the opponent? Did he make a throat-slash gesture? Throw the ball at the ref or other team? Go through a pre-planned celebration dance/ritual? No. He scored a big TD and celebrated. "But, but. but... he threw the ball over his shoulder. Like WAY WAY over. There's no place in the game for this stuff, damn it. He's obviously disrespecting the game, the other team, and their mamas, and making a mockery of college football." Give me a break. Look, if he taunted the defense, or made gestures at the sideline, or pulled a sharpie out of his sock, then hell yes flag him. But don't turn these kids into robots, like the NFL is doing. The passion and emotion is part of what makes college football great. The kid made a great play at critical juncture in a game. Let him celebrate it.
Bmwolf21 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 This is exactly what I've been thinking. It's not like the refs said, "You celebrated, you lose!" All Washington had to do was kick a mid-range field goal to win the game. And it wasn't blocked due to a low angle, it was smothered. That was a block from any point on the field. And while I do agree it was the correct call based on the rules, I think the rule needs to be looked at. It should state that it's up to the refs to decide whether the act is done to draw attention to ones self. In this case it clearly wasn't. He threw the ball up without giving it a second thought and celebrated with his team, which is allowed by rule. Bad, or at least incomplete, rule imo, but I think it was called correctly by the refs. Agreed. I'm not arguing the call itself - according to everyone involved, there is no officials' judgment involved - it's "throw the ball at all and out comes the flag." And that's the BS part. The rule MUST allow for referees' judgment. Any idiot can see that the kid wasn't taunting or disrespecting anyone. He was excited about a clutch play late in the game. I don't understand why the NCAA has continued, year-in and year-out, to try to keep kids from celebrating. If a referee can't be trusted to determine when a player is taunting his opponent or excessively drawing attention to himself, then that official shouldn't be refereeing NCAA games. Send him back to high school , junior varsity and freshman games until he figures it out. The rule absolutely needs to be reviewed, and it needs to be reviewed NOW. Not at the end of the season, not after the bowls, NOW.
Acantha Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Agreed. I'm not arguing the call itself - according to everyone involved, there is no officials' judgment involved - it's "throw the ball at all and out comes the flag." And that's the BS part. The rule MUST allow for referees' judgment. Any idiot can see that the kid wasn't taunting or disrespecting anyone. He was excited about a clutch play late in the game. I don't understand why the NCAA has continued, year-in and year-out, to try to keep kids from celebrating. If a referee can't be trusted to determine when a player is taunting his opponent or excessively drawing attention to himself, then that official shouldn't be refereeing NCAA games. Send him back to high school , junior varsity and freshman games until he figures it out. The rule absolutely needs to be reviewed, and it needs to be reviewed NOW. Not at the end of the season, not after the bowls, NOW. I think it's important to try and keep a bit of control over the celebrating. If they don't, football will turn into what basketball has become. It's already tough to tell these kids not to show off while they are trying to draw attention to themselves to get into the NFL. Meanwhile, they see players like TO and Chad Johnson getting all the press and extra attention due to their celebration antics. Asking the refs to make the judgment call is a tough thing to do. If they do that, a win or loss is set squarely on the shoulders of one person based on nothing more than his opinion. Granted, if it's a blatantly obvious situation, there won't be much argument. But what happens when it's a borderline call, and a team that is competing for a BCS game ends up losing because one ref judges it was too much? While it sucks how the call went down in this game, and I do think there should be some adjustments to the rule, I understand where the NCAA is coming from.
Bmwolf21 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 I think it's important to try and keep a bit of control over the celebrating. If they don't, football will turn into what basketball has become. It's already tough to tell these kids not to show off while they are trying to draw attention to themselves to get into the NFL. Meanwhile, they see players like TO and Chad Johnson getting all the press and extra attention due to their celebration antics. Asking the refs to make the judgment call is a tough thing to do. If they do that, a win or loss is set squarely on the shoulders of one person based on nothing more than his opinion. Granted, if it's a blatantly obvious situation, there won't be much argument. But what happens when it's a borderline call, and a team that is competing for a BCS game ends up losing because one ref judges it was too much? While it sucks how the call went down in this game, and I do think there should be some adjustments to the rule, I understand where the NCAA is coming from. So in this case the outcome of a game was decided by an overly broad, vague rule that left no room for interpretation. What's the difference? Screwed by a bad rule or screwed by a judgment call - either way, you're still screwed. Games have always been decided on bad judgment calls. If one guy thinks it's excessive, then there's no reason why the refs can't huddle and talk about it and make sure it was excessive. And again, if we can't trust an official, with the NCAA's definitions and video examples, to know the difference between celebrating a big play and excessive celebration/taunting, then I don't want him calling NCAA Division I games. But I ask this - why does it even have to be that subjective? Classify them into three areas - taunting, excessive celebration in terms of length (delaying the game) and unsportsmanlike conduct for a choreographed celebration. Anything else, not a penalty.
Acantha Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 So in this case the outcome of a game was decided by an overly broad, vague rule that left no room for interpretation. What's the difference? Screwed by a bad rule or screwed by a judgment call - either way, you're still screwed. There's a difference. In this case, the guy broke the rule, period. Was it stupid? Yes. But the rule is right there in black and white; DO NOT THROW THE BALL IN THE AIR. In this case, he screwed himself. If it's strictly up to the ref, then he wouldn't have known what he did was wrong. Did the ball get thrown 20 ft in the air instead of the an okay 10ft? Did the celebration go on for 20 seconds instead of 15? When you make it subjective, that's when someone gets screwed.
ExiledInIllinois Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Bottom line is it's a schitty rule that is overly broad in it's definition and enforcement, and in this case they penalized a kid's spontaneous celebration of the possible game-tying score with :02 to go. He didn't taunt anyone, didn't throat slash, didn't throw the ball at a BYU player, and didn't do a previously-choreographed dance routine or stunt. He jumped up and got excited after making a huge play to possibly tie the game. Yeah, he's clearly out of control and has no respect for the game, and needs to be punished. How come in the very (notice I said very) old days they didn't throw the ball away! Why don't they just make it clear and a rule that you have to touch the ball to the ground and leave it there for the referee? Afterall, it is not called a touchdown for nothing.
inkman Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 Come on, ink, you know that's complete bullschitt. The rule is garbage, and it directly affected the outcome of this game. I haven't even questioned the validity of the rule but it is a rule no matter how mundane and stupid. Are players so geeked up that they no longer have use of their motor functions and a sudden catapult-like motion is immediately sent to the players right arm? I think it's important to try and keep a bit of control over the celebrating. I understand where the NCAA is coming from. There's a difference. In this case, the guy broke the rule, period. Was it stupid? Yes. But the rule is right there in black and white; DO NOT THROW THE BALL IN THE AIR. In this case, he screwed himself. How come in the very (notice I said very) old days they didn't throw the ball away! They didn't have steroids...in the milk. It gets the players amped.
Bmwolf21 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 I haven't even questioned the validity of the rule but it is a rule no matter how mundane and stupid. Are players so geeked up that they no longer have use of their motor functions and a sudden catapult-like motion is immediately sent to the players right arm? So you don't think it's possible that kids playing a game might get too excited after making a big play late in the game and forget that tossing the ball in the air is very very bad? I'm not going to debate this all day, but the bottom line is the rule sucks and needs to be changed.
Bmwolf21 Posted September 7, 2008 Posted September 7, 2008 If it's strictly up to the ref, then he wouldn't have known what he did was wrong. Did the ball get thrown 20 ft in the air instead of the an okay 10ft? Did the celebration go on for 20 seconds instead of 15? When you make it subjective, that's when someone gets screwed. Why is tossing the ball in the air even a penalty? Because now some fat ref has to waddle ten extra feet to get the ball? So the ref couldn't explain to him after the flag what he did wrong? The refs wouldn't come to the training camps, like they do now, with their demonstrations and videos to show what will be allowed or forbidden? The NCAA couldn't work with the refs to come up with some sort of standard of what's an excessive celebration penalty and what's not? I guess asking paid professional referees to exercise judgment is too much. Again, the rule is asinine, and hopefully this play is the catalyst for change.
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