Question for Liberals.

[DC Tom]

Why are right wingers for death penalty but against abortion. If life is sacred isnt all life sacred???

 

It's the Reagan Republican philosophy: life begins at conception and ends at birth.

 

 

 

Me? I'm for the death penalty, and for abortion. Basically, I don't like people.

[StupidNation]

Did you get you anti-Abortion super hero doll yet?

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics...rity-soars.html

 

Did you get the memo champion of murderers?

http://www.bibleprobe.com/abortion2ndtrimester2.jpg

 

Disclaimer: Don't click on that if you want to see what "choice" looks like

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

Abortion isn't even an issue to me. I really couldn't care less about it. When those on the right decide to take on the issue of unwanted children the same way they fund the military/industrial complex I'll believe that they actually care about abortion. Until then, they can kiss my ass, as well as the asses of the million or so kids that go to bed in government "homes" every night. That said, I really don't understand why anyone would have an abortion (outside rape/incest). That also sickens me.

 

I don't like the death penalty because I don't like the idea of giving such a corrupt entity that much control over a process. I friggin' hate violent criminals and it pisses me off that we have to pay to house them and make people "take care" of them but the alternative is to run them through a "system" that is wholly unfair and completely rigged to the Prosecution.

 

Minus the first sentence of you post AD, I completely agree with everything you wrote.... ME TOO!

[EC-Bills]

This is easy. Abortion is the killing of innocent life, the death penalty is an act of justice against a criminal who merited to be taken from the world.

 

 

Bullsh*t, you don't get to have it both ways with regards to life. Furthermore, the merit for the death penalty part is also crap. How is it merited for an innocent man to be executed on death row due to a corrupt system? Things are seldom, if ever, black and white.

 

 

Did you really have to conjure this one up as it's so basic? Each action is determined by its intent, and the action of both abortion and the death penalty are both the taking of life: one is for convenience and the taking of innocent life, the other is out of justice.

 

It's like asking the same question about someone who is against abortion, but will fight in war and kill someone. The intent is radically different and a dumb-ass question.

 

Convenience?!? Right, women just look at their watch and say, "It's 5 minutes to 3, I think I'll go have an abortion."

[EC-Bills]

It's the Reagan Republican philosophy: life begins at conception and ends at birth.

 

 

 

Me? I'm for the death penalty, and for abortion. Basically, I don't like people.

 

Yes, one of your more endearing traits

 

 

P.S. You forgot retroactive abortions.

[Taro T]

Bullsh*t, you don't get to have it both ways with regards to life. Furthermore, the merit for the death penalty part is also crap. How is it merited for an innocent man to be executed on death row due to a corrupt system? Things are seldom, if ever, black and white.

Not sure of the reason for the vehemence of your response, unless it's because it is SN you are responding to; that does make sense.

 

I'd agree w/ you that it would be a travesty to have an innocent man be executed. While there have been several celebrated instances of people on death row being acquitted; I don't know of any innocent people getting executed since Gary Gilmore was executed. I'd say the death penalty should be an option but in limited circumstances such as intentionally killing an on-duty cop or prison guard, serial killings, mass murder, and probably a couple of other similar crimes.

 

While I have serious issues w/ an innocent man to be executed for a crime he didn't commit, I also have serious issues w/ an innocent child being executed for the crime of being unwanted.

Convenience?!? Right, women just look at their watch and say, "It's 5 minutes to 3, I think I'll go have an abortion."

I truly doubt many abortions are products of "convenience", but I'm sure there are a few (which are in the far minority). It's foolish for SH to claim that abortion is a matter of convenience, but not terrribly surprising that he'd say that.

 

Personally, I think abortion and the death penalty are issues that should be decided at the state level but neither one is my deal breaker in this election. I'm far more interested in the economic and foreign policies and I really dislike one candidate's economic policy and an not impressed w/ his opponent's policy either.

[DC Tom]

Yes, one of your more endearing traits

 

Compared to all my other traits...it kind-of is, actually.

[DC Tom]

I truly doubt many abortions are products of "convenience", but I'm sure there are a few (which are in the far minority). It's foolish for SH to claim that abortion is a matter of convenience, but not terrribly surprising that he'd say that.

 

I can buy the argument that abortion is a method of birth control born of convenience...I doubt a majority of abortions are a result of impulsive sex where people "just can't wait long enough" to open a damn condom. But I'm sure a certain percentage stem from that particular stupidity.

 

However, I would strongly dispute anyone who would argue that abortions are in any way convenient. From women I've known that have had them, it seems a particularly inconvenient form of birth control.

[StupidNation]

Bullsh*t, you don't get to have it both ways with regards to life. Furthermore, the merit for the death penalty part is also crap. How is it merited for an innocent man to be executed on death row due to a corrupt system? Things are seldom, if ever, black and white.

 

I'll take your opinion as I take everyone else who uses no logic and screaming "I said so" like I do the millions of other idiots. Using your logic a man cannot defend himself with a gun if attacked because I "can't have it both ways".

 

 

Convenience?!? Right, women just look at their watch and say, "It's 5 minutes to 3, I think I'll go have an abortion."

 

Yes convenience genius.

[EC-Bills]

Not sure of the reason for the vehemence of your response, unless it's because it is SN you are responding to; that does make sense.

 

Your are correct.

 

I'd agree w/ you that it would be a travesty to have an innocent man be executed. While there have been several celebrated instances of people on death row being acquitted; I don't know of any innocent people getting executed since Gary Gilmore was executed. I'd say the death penalty should be an option but in limited circumstances such as intentionally killing an on-duty cop or prison guard, serial killings, mass murder, and probably a couple of other similar crimes.

 

While I have serious issues w/ an innocent man to be executed for a crime he didn't commit, I also have serious issues w/ an innocent child being executed for the crime of being unwanted.

 

I truly doubt many abortions are products of "convenience", but I'm sure there are a few (which are in the far minority). It's foolish for SH to claim that abortion is a matter of convenience, but not terrribly surprising that he'd say that.

 

Personally, I think abortion and the death penalty are issues that should be decided at the state level but neither one is my deal breaker in this election. I'm far more interested in the economic and foreign policies and I really dislike one candidate's economic policy and an not impressed w/ his opponent's policy either.

 

I agree with you on a lot of items here. Personally, I don't care for abortion, but I don't see it as my right to impose my beliefs on a woman's reproductive rights. It is a very slippery slope when you try to legislate to someone what they can and cannot do with their body. I prefer abortion to be safe, legal, and most importantly *RARE*. Like Tom, I know women who have had abortions (for a variety of reasons). It was anything but a convenient decision for them.

[Albany,n.y.]

Here's my answer: The original question has nothing to do with whether one is liberal, conservative or something in between.

Here's why I'm pro choice. I'm in my 50s, I was around when women were dying because they got pregnant and either couldn't afford to have a kid or were scared out of their minds that society would ostrasize them as a single parent. Have you ever known anyone whose mother died having an illegal abortion? I do. He grew up without a mother because she was too poor to fly to a place where abortions were safe. The rich had no problem getting their daughters safe abortions. The poor risked death. So really the anti choice crowd a) promote class warfare b) endorse the death penalty as an option to a young pregnant woman too poor to travel to where abortion is legal.

As far as the death penalty-I'm against it unless the person is apprehended at the scene of the crime. That's the only sure way you don't put innocent people to death. Ever hear of a death row inmate freed due to evidence that exonerated them?

So my question would be: 1)Why do some people want to make something illegal that would cause more otherwise healthy women to die? 2) Why are some people so quick to endorse a death penalty that puts innocent people to death?

[Taro T]

I can buy the argument that abortion is a method of birth control born of convenience...I doubt a majority of abortions are a result of impulsive sex where people "just can't wait long enough" to open a damn condom. But I'm sure a certain percentage stem from that particular stupidity.

 

However, I would strongly dispute anyone who would argue that abortions are in any way convenient. From women I've known that have had them, it seems a particularly inconvenient form of birth control.

I'd agree w/ that, which I why it seems foolish for SH to claim that they are born of "convenience"; well, if he had any reason for stating that other than getting a rise out of people, it would be a foolish thing to say.

 

Your are correct.

 

 

 

I agree with you on a lot of items here. Personally, I don't care for abortion, but I don't see it as my right to impose my beliefs on a woman's reproductive rights. It is a very slippery slope when you try to legislate to someone what they can and cannot do with their body. I prefer abortion to be safe, legal, and most importantly *RARE*. Like Tom, I know women who have had abortions (for a variety of reasons). It was anything but a convenient decision for them.

Which is actually (unfortunately) the reason that I tend to find my opposition to even limited forms of abortion growing stronger through the years. The more loopholes that are carved out for legitimate reasons, the more often that someone will stretch the rationale for why they want / need one.

 

I do agree that there are (limited) circumstances in which abortion should be an option. And I absolutely am in favor of post-proceedure councilling as there can be very few decisions that are tougher than to intentionally end an innocent life; especially when that life has literally been a part of you. But I also believe the decision of whether abortion is legal should be made at the state level, and this comes from one that lives in a state (and has no intention of leaving that state over the issue should RvW ever be overturned) that will keep it's laws far more liberal than others when it comes to this issue.

[DC Tom]

I'd agree w/ that, which I why it seems foolish for SH to claim that they are born of "convenience"; well, if he had any reason for stating that other than getting a rise out of people, it would be a foolish thing to say.

 

Truth be told, it's a foolish thing for him to say because he's a schmuck.

 

Which is actually (unfortunately) the reason that I tend to find my opposition to even limited forms of abortion growing stronger through the years. The more loopholes that are carved out for legitimate reasons, the more often that someone will stretch the rationale for why they want / need one.

 

I do agree that there are (limited) circumstances in which abortion should be an option. And I absolutely am in favor of post-proceedure councilling as there can be very few decisions that are tougher than to intentionally end an innocent life; especially when that life has literally been a part of you. But I also believe the decision of whether abortion is legal should be made at the state level, and this comes from one that lives in a state (and has no intention of leaving that state over the issue should RvW ever be overturned) that will keep it's laws far more liberal than others when it comes to this issue.

 

Makes no sense to me. The way I just read EC's post and your response, you just said that you've become more willing with time to impose your beliefs specifically because you're unwilling to impose your beliefs...? Did I miss something?

[BuffaloBorn1960]

This is easy. Abortion is the killing of innocent life, the death penalty is an act of justice against a criminal who merited to be taken from the world. Did you really have to conjure this one up as it's so basic? Each action is determined by its intent, and the action of both abortion and the death penalty are both the taking of life: one is for convenience and the taking of innocent life, the other is out of justice.

 

It's like asking the same question about someone who is against abortion, but will fight in war and kill someone. The intent is radically different and a dumb-ass question.

[SDS]

I can buy the argument that abortion is a method of birth control born of convenience...I doubt a majority of abortions are a result of impulsive sex where people "just can't wait long enough" to open a damn condom. But I'm sure a certain percentage stem from that particular stupidity.

 

However, I would strongly dispute anyone who would argue that abortions are in any way convenient. From women I've known that have had them, it seems a particularly inconvenient form of birth control.

 

Everyone has their anecdotal evidence, and I'm no different. Someone very close to my family had three of them. When asked why, she said because she didn't have birth control handy and as far as she was concerned it was just another method. The 4th time she got pregnant, she kept the child because this time "she actually cared for the father".

 

Personally, I think this happens more often than most people think.

 

As for Roe v. Wade. Overturning it does not make it illegal, it just pushes it back to the states. Maryland has already put it in their constitution that abortion will be forever legal. I'm sure most of the northeast would follow suit, if they haven't already. It isn't going to be made illegal across the US, regardless of the fear-mongering on the left.

 

With that said, those on the right would be better served trying to change the hearts and minds of society, than seeking legal redress at this moment in time.

[Taro T]

Truth be told, it's a foolish thing for him to say because he's a schmuck.

 

 

 

Makes no sense to me. The way I just read EC's post and your response, you just said that you've become more willing with time to impose your beliefs specifically because you're unwilling to impose your beliefs...? Did I miss something?

Yeah, I wasn't very clear on that one. This following attempt at a clarification probably won't be much clearer, but here goes.

 

I have always been opposed to abortion. When I was younger, while I still was opposed to abortion, I could see the validity of the argument for many of the exceptions that are proposed by people that favor "limited" abortion rights. I've been convinced through the years, primarily by pro-choice friends, that a lot of the circumstances that would allow for exceptions to a ban on abortion would rather easily be claimed by either a patient or a sympathetic doctor.

 

The argument my pro-choice friends were going for was, since an abortion could still be obtained rather easily w/ limited bans on the procedures there was no point to any bans. The logic of that view (that a slippery slope exists that ends up allowing all/nearly all abortions when reasonable restrictions are imposed; (yeah, I know that term "reasonable" brings all sorts of unreasonableness into the discussion; it's late and I'm tired and can't think of a better word currently)) has made me believe that certain exemptions that I'd have considered reasonable 20 years ago are no longer what I'd consider reasonable. So, since I see fewer reasonable (legitimate?) exemptions to allow abortions, I'd say I have become more firmly pro-life (anti-abortion, whatever).

 

And, at the end of the day, considering where I live, I don't see my beliefs EVER being imposed on anyone as most of the people where I live are far more liberal on this issue than I am. Nor, were I ever to run for office (God forbid) would I consider my opinions on abortion to be worthy of discussion. I'm sure that there'd be far more legitimate reasons for people not to vote for me.

[Offside Number 76]

Why are Liberals for abortion (killing an unborn baby), but against the death penalty?

 

I really do not understand this at all. Please enlighten me.

 

Why are conservetard pro-lifers (and pro-life means just that, let's not play God and try to make exceptions for folks who may or may not have been correctly convicted) for the death penalty? And what liberal is "for" abortion? I thought liberals were "for" choice.

 

I really do not understand this at all. Please enlighten me.

 

(Don't really care one way or the other. Just sick of this being an issue, what with a war and an economic collapse going on. And sick of "religious righters" getting the US to kill innocents abroad, and getting OUR innocent kids killed abroad, for made-up reasons (there were NEVER weapons in Iraq, and the goof you elected knew or should have known that). Or do those lives not matter in your so-called "pro-life" philosophy?)

 

You know, you, and people who think like you, have screwed up this country beyond belief over the last eight years, and the effects will last longer. Stop it with your supposedly moral bs, which in reality could not be less Christian. It's not an issue anymore. Keep your family the way you want; don't even bother with the folks like me who think that, maybe, there are reasons to keep abortion legal.

 

By all means, continue to cherish your religious beliefs. But continuing to use the issue for electioneering is wrecking this country, and as a result (via the Reagan doctrine, and I daresay he was a conservative who appointed a pro-choice SC Justice (O'Connor)), the world.

[olivier in france]

Why are conservetard pro-lifers (and pro-life means just that, let's not play God and try to make exceptions for folks who may or may not have been correctly convicted) for the death penalty? And what liberal is "for" abortion? I thought liberals were "for" choice.

 

I really do not understand this at all. Please enlighten me.

 

(Don't really care one way or the other. Just sick of this being an issue, what with a war and an economic collapse going on. And sick of "religious righters" getting the US to kill innocents abroad, and getting OUR innocent kids killed abroad, for made-up reasons (there were NEVER weapons in Iraq, and the goof you elected knew or should have known that). Or do those lives not matter in your so-called "pro-life" philosophy?)

 

You know, you, and people who think like you, have screwed up this country beyond belief over the last eight years, and the effects will last longer. Stop it with your supposedly moral bs, which in reality could not be less Christian. It's not an issue anymore. Keep your family the way you want; don't even bother with the folks like me who think that, maybe, there are reasons to keep abortion legal.

 

By all means, continue to cherish your religious beliefs. But continuing to use the issue for electioneering is wrecking this country, and as a result (via the Reagan doctrine, and I daresay he was a conservative who appointed a pro-choice SC Justice (O'Connor)), the world.

best post of the week

[ExiledInIllinois]

Why are conservetard pro-lifers (and pro-life means just that, let's not play God and try to make exceptions for folks who may or may not have been correctly convicted) for the death penalty? And what liberal is "for" abortion? I thought liberals were "for" choice.

 

I really do not understand this at all. Please enlighten me.

 

(Don't really care one way or the other. Just sick of this being an issue, what with a war and an economic collapse going on. And sick of "religious righters" getting the US to kill innocents abroad, and getting OUR innocent kids killed abroad, for made-up reasons (there were NEVER weapons in Iraq, and the goof you elected knew or should have known that). Or do those lives not matter in your so-called "pro-life" philosophy?)

 

You know, you, and people who think like you, have screwed up this country beyond belief over the last eight years, and the effects will last longer. Stop it with your supposedly moral bs, which in reality could not be less Christian. It's not an issue anymore. Keep your family the way you want; don't even bother with the folks like me who think that, maybe, there are reasons to keep abortion legal.

 

By all means, continue to cherish your religious beliefs. But continuing to use the issue for electioneering is wrecking this country, and as a result (via the Reagan doctrine, and I daresay he was a conservative who appointed a pro-choice SC Justice (O'Connor)), the world.

 

I agree.

 

Reagan was a Democrat early on... He wasn't wacked out on religion like what seems to be in vogue today. It is this Baby-Boomer generation that effed up early under a more liberal society, yet found "God" later on... The children are really worse for the wear.

 

Putting others first over oneself won't work... Americans want their demagogues. To be elected, one has to tell the people what they WANT to hear, not what they NEED to hear. It is all about the ME in TEAM. You see how suburban white woman are flocking to this.

 

Palin, even know she is presumptive VP, is Bush Lite... Here wacky beliefs are the same. It was brillant that McCain seen this and sold out his own beliefs. I am not so scared about McCain or Obama getting in. It is the Andrew Johnson factor that can set this country back even further than we have been set back the last 8 years.

 

People in America want to preach their values and then go off and do the opposite. Just look at the way people talk and act on this board. It is illogical. Slack the liberals all you want for their illogic, if they get elected... It will hurt deeply the higher class... And the poor slobs wannabees that want to be higher class over nothing else will follow right in tow.

 

Again, the ME in TEAM is where it is at.