Crowell still hasn't had surgery

[Cynical]

Stated for the 3rd time (albeit in different language), if he hadn't had the surgery yet and was seeking a second opinion and could still play and contribute, why would they place him on I.R.?

 

As stated before, they could have simply said "Angelo, if you have the surgery we will I.R. you. It's your choice."

 

Something else I have not seen asked;

 

Could not the Bills put AC on the PUP list? That would have sidelined AC for 6 weeks, and gave the Bills a roster spot.

[buffaloboyinATL]

sorry if this covered elsewhere -- can the bills trade crowell, or is he automatically IR'd throughout the league for the rest of the year. what if he's released, can he play for someone else in 08.

Not sure about the trade but if he is released or given an injury settlement, he would be able to play for someone else this year. Same thing happened to Vincent.

[Cynical]

I think that once you report to camp and practice, you cannot be put on the PUP list, although I believe there are two of them.

 

So, if I read that correctly:

 

There is only one "PUP" list. Before and during TC, it is an "active" list.

Once the 53 man roster is set, it becomes a "reserve" list.

And in order to be on the reserve list, the player must have been on the active list.

 

Well, that sucks, and you are right. It still would not have mattered in Crowell's case.

[JK2000]

If Crowell changes his mind about going under the knife can we rescind putting him on IR?

[gobillsinytown]

I think this issue may be more simple than most of us realize. It may have been that Angelo was trying to play through the injury, but couldn't take the pain anymore. Since he doesn't want to give up his season, maybe he's thinking a quick scope will fix the problem enough to get him through the season. I don't believe that most NFL players would willingly "stick it" to the team just to be spiteful, expecially in a contract year. Most players WANT to play. Otherwise how would they have made it as far as they have? They have to be highly motivated just to get there. And everybody plays with pain and lingering injuries.

 

I'm thinking that there's a difference of opinion between the team doctors and the player here. The doctors think the injury is more severe, Angelo thinks the quick scope and four weeks off will take care of it. The doctors think it's going to take a lot longer.

 

If I remember correctly, Bruce Smith went through this is '92, where his knee bothered him all year long. He didn't want to give up the season, so he tried to stick it out, but later said that it was a mistake.

[bowery4]

Something else I have not seen asked;

 

Could not the Bills put AC on the PUP list? That would have sidelined AC for 6 weeks, and gave the Bills a roster spot.

 

No he was in camp so not PUPable.

 

I think his knee felt worse (this last week, he was out of the practices, no?) and he saw the dollar bills waiting at the end of the season (as stated in post by ans4), so he told them I am getting the surgery. Might have been a bad choice with bad timing in retrospect but that is what he did and at the least he will be healthy going to whoever he plays for next year.

 

One thing I know is the Bills do have confidence that they are ok at the position and putting him IR was a vote of that confidence to the other guys (plus it opens a valuable roster spot). If they are right, good. I like AC and wonder about it though. I am not sure how the other guys look at it either.

But what is done is done.

 

With Peters back, I want to hear that they sign Evans before the opener now. We have had enough question marks going into the season. Time to take care of all the preseason business Russ. The giants showed class can the Bills?

[In-A-Gadda-Levitre]

I think this issue may be more simple than most of us realize. It may have been that Angelo was trying to play through the injury, but couldn't take the pain anymore. Since he doesn't want to give up his season, maybe he's thinking a quick scope will fix the problem enough to get him through the season. I don't believe that most NFL players would willingly "stick it" to the team just to be spiteful, expecially in a contract year. Most players WANT to play. Otherwise how would they have made it as far as they have? They have to be highly motivated just to get there. And everybody plays with pain and lingering injuries.

 

I'm thinking that there's a difference of opinion between the team doctors and the player here. The doctors think the injury is more severe, Angelo thinks the quick scope and four weeks off will take care of it. The doctors think it's going to take a lot longer.

 

If I remember correctly, Bruce Smith went through this is '92, where his knee bothered him all year long. He didn't want to give up the season, so he tried to stick it out, but later said that it was a mistake.

this is what I think happened. AC isn't a bad guy, he's in pain and IMO another doctor thought he should have surgery as the best option or said words to that effect. It's unfortunate he came to know this and/or decided at such a late date, but he's realizing that his knee is not going to get better without surgery, or at least that's what he's being told by the 3rd party.

[Trader]

This, my friend, is a VERY good point.

 

Maybe but this was an ambush Angelo should have had this done weeks or months ago.

 

They would go into the season with a LB's that are not totally healed Corto, Digi and Poz have all been nicked.

 

Poz has been fragile the last 3 years.

 

They could not afford injuries at this position

[ndirish1978]

Maybe but this was an ambush Angelo should have had this done weeks or months ago.

 

They would go into the season with a LB's that are not totally healed Corto, Digi and Poz have all been nicked.

 

Poz has been fragile the last 3 years.

 

They could not afford injuries at this position

 

If it really was a chronic injury, then he should have had it scoped in the early offseason. Even if he missed OTAs and training camp he would have come in as a starter. It's not like the situation on offense where a new scheme is being installed, it's the same scheme. Basically it seems like he is just getting ready and healed up for his next team.

[marauderswr80]

Im telling you I wouldnt be shocked within a couple weeks Crowell is a non Bill.

[ans4e64]

Im telling you I wouldnt be shocked within a couple weeks Crowell is a non Bill.

 

I wouldn't release him and risk him going to the Pats, or any other division rival this year. If he is pulling some crap and acting like a little B word about something, then he can sit and rot on injured reserve, and the Pats or anyone else can pay him next year.

[Sisyphean Bills]

You are wrong. He is a bad guy. Brandon should have him executed for screwing with our team!

[VOR]

I find this section from Chris Brown's article today interesting:

 

“Seventy-two hours before a game is certainly different than three weeks prior to your opener in training camp. So the timing is part of every situation and it was part of this one.”

 

To me, that says the Bills recommended to Crowell that he have surgery 3 weeks ago and he said no and instead tried to do non-surgical things to help his knee get better. Apparently that didn't work and he couldn't take the pain any longer so he decided to have surgery. I don't think it was malicious on either side's part, although I think the Bills were frustrated that they could have had an answer (on recovery) 3 weeks ago and been better able to plan for his absence.

 

He might as well have the surgery now that the die has been cast. Playing on a bad knee in a new system (assuming the Bills reach an injury settlement with him) won't get him very far. And reportedly if a settlement is worked-out in the next 4 days, the Bills can re-sign him at a later (which I don't know) date. Ideally at that time he'd be healthy and he knows the system, can show his stuff, and cash-in next year.

[d_wag]

Needing the roster spot for Peters?

 

i understand that they "supposedly" didnt know he was reporting back until this afternoon, but we don't know that for sure. just brainstorming ideas

 

the bills had an easy roster spot they should have kept crowell in - they are carrying 5 DE's and will only dress 4 on gameday...........copeland should have went and probably will before the season is out........very poor decision by the bills FO

[d_wag]

I find this section from Chris Brown's article today interesting:

 

 

 

To me, that says the Bills recommended to Crowell that he have surgery 3 weeks ago and he said no and instead tried to do non-surgical things to help his knee get better. Apparently that didn't work and he couldn't take the pain any longer so he decided to have surgery. I don't think it was malicious on either side's part, although I think the Bills were frustrated that they could have had an answer (on recovery) 3 weeks ago and been better able to plan for his absence.

 

He might as well have the surgery now that the die has been cast. Playing on a bad knee in a new system (assuming the Bills reach an injury settlement with him) won't get him very far. And reportedly if a settlement is worked-out in the next 4 days, the Bills can re-sign him at a later (which I don't know) date. Ideally at that time he'd be healthy and he knows the system, can show his stuff, and cash-in next year.

 

if this is true (which i'm not 100% on) that would be ideal..........it would make the most sense for him performance wise (i.e. better for crowell's next contract) to return to the bills were he could easily step into the lineup and know the system........i'm sure there is some bad blood here, but crowell needs to play and play well to get a nice contract, and with his friendships on the team that might be enough to win him back

[VOR]

Actually I think what has to happen for the Bills to be able to re-sign Crowell is that he cannot be signed by any of the 31 other teams. Then the Bills can re-sign him. I suppose if they do the settlement and he gets his surgery, no one will want to pick him up.

[dave mcbride]

Chris Brown on the Bills' official website stated today (Friday, Sept 5th, 1:56 pm ET) that Angelo Crowell has still not had the arthroscopic surgery performed and was seeking a second opinion. So what in hell were the Bills doing putting him on I.R.?

 

Firstly, they carried Ryan Denney for 7 weeks last season. Couldn't the organization have done the same for Crowell? Particularly in that the prognosis for a knee scope is typically better than one for a broken bone in the foot. While the prognosis for either injury is only a guesstimate, why the benefit of the doubt for Denney and not Crowell?

First, you have no idea how serious the injury is. Given his history, he may be dealing with a gradual cartilage deterioration, which happens to a lot of players. Those sorts of injuries are far worse than broken foot bones because often no one ever truly recovers to what they were before. He's not going to be much help this season if he's getting scoped in game 1. He may be at 80% by mid-November, but Crowell at 80% isn't a good player.