Greg de'Ville Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 ...the verdict is in. And it's final. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/more...ex.html?cnn=yes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 ...the verdict is in. And it's final. http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/more...ex.html?cnn=yes 79011[/snapback] Justice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesir Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Justice(?) Winning on a math error, something to be proud of. USA, USA!!! This guy could have been considered one of the greatest champions of all time if he would have handed over the gold to the guy who really won it and showed the world that being a great sportsman was more important to him than the medal itself. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 great - we have a gold medal we didnt deserve. . . . woo hoo ... and I don't want to hear about how the Korean "should have had points deducted anyway for adding a third hold" or whatever. That's HUMAN error by the judges. Thats why we have HUMAN judges. Hamm's error was caused by bad math, not by a group of judges missing something. He should use that Gold Medal as a coaster. Or, give it to its rightful owner. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
USMCBillsFan Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 great - we have a gold medal we didnt deserve. . . . woo hoo ... and I don't want to hear about how the Korean "should have had points deducted anyway for adding a third hold" or whatever. That's HUMAN error by the judges. Thats why we have HUMAN judges. Hamm's error was caused by bad math, not by a group of judges missing something. He should use that Gold Medal as a coaster. Or, give it to its rightful owner. 79042[/snapback] That's actually not true either steve. Human error was the cause of the miscalculation of the starting routine for the South Korean. ALL things considered Hamm did earn that gold medal. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesir Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 There's nothing more pathetic that a 4'2" guy in tights, jumping up and down and yelling (in a squeeky little voice) "MINE, MINE, MINE!!!!" Something for all Americans to be proud of Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Greg de'Ville Posted October 21, 2004 Author Share Posted October 21, 2004 Justice. 79015[/snapback] There were "hiccups" in Yang Tae-young's parallel bar routine that should have been deducted, but weren't. Yang did an OK but not great routine on the high bar. Hamm absolutely nailed his parallel and high bar routines. If you ask me, Hamm won fair and square. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 . Human error was the cause of the miscalculation of the starting routine for the South Korean. 79047[/snapback] Well yeah, i mean the computer cant operate on its own. But I mean, with the performances, its a judgment call - and each judge thought the Korean did better. Something that wasnt a "judgement call" was putting the correct # in to start. Its a shame really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesir Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 That's actually not true either steve. Human error was the cause of the miscalculation of the starting routine for the South Korean. ALL things considered Hamm did earn that gold medal. 79047[/snapback] The error was that the degree of difficulty of the koreans routine was entered at the wrong value into the calculation. So his score was mulitplied by (for instance) 4.5 instead of 4.6. He lost because the wrong number was used. They use a book that identifies which value should be used and they wrote down the wrong number. The appeals court did not rule on the merits of the case, but refused ONLY because the appeal was filed 2 hours too late. Hamm won by default. Ah the two greatest words in the english language... De fault! , de fault!- Homer Simpson- 1994 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevbeau Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 [sigh] Gymnastics talk on a football board and the Sox beat the Yankees. Repent, the end is near!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 The error was that the degree of difficulty of the koreans routine was entered at the wrong value into the calculation. So his score was mulitplied by (for instance) 4.5 instead of 4.6. He lost because the wrong number was used. They use a book that identifies which value should be used and they wrote down the wrong number. The appeals court did not rule on the merits of the case, but refused ONLY because the appeal was filed 2 hours too late. Hamm won by default. Ah the two greatest words in the english language... De fault! , de fault!- Homer Simpson- 1994 79064[/snapback] Hamm should be so proud of himself... Wow - how great would it be, for the Olympic games, for everything - for him to just be a MAN (i know it must be hard when your nuts are crammed into spandex for 9/10ths of your adult life) and take the Silver. What a loser - really. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesir Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 There were "hiccups" in Yang Tae-young's parallel bar routine that should have been deducted, but weren't. Yang did an OK but not great routine on the high bar. Hamm absolutely nailed his parallel and high bar routines. If you ask me, Hamm won fair and square. 79054[/snapback] But your talking about rescoring the routine, this appeal had nothing to do with the routine itself, only the value used to multiply it by. You can't justify this by saying, "ya but his hand slipped anyway so who cares if they screwed him over." I seem to remember some comments that there were little errors in Hamms rountine as well that were'nt deducted either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beerball Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Justice(?) Winning on a math error, something to be proud of. USA, USA!!! This guy could have been considered one of the greatest champions of all time if he would have handed over the gold to the guy who really won it and showed the world that being a great sportsman was more important to him than the medal itself. 79037[/snapback] Rules are established. We followed those rules. End of story. Hand it over? So the Pats should hand over the Lombardi because the refs screwed up the tuck rule etc? I will never understand your kind of logic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Rules are established. We followed those rules. End of story. Hand it over? So the Pats should hand over the Lombardi because the refs screwed up the tuck rule etc? I will never understand your kind of logic. 79099[/snapback] Your anology doesn't work. This would be like New England going into the next Super Bowl with 10 points on the board before kickoff. Its a joke, Hamm knows it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffaloBob Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 All of you people who keep insisting this was nothing more than a math error do not know what you are talking about. THIS WAS NOT JUST A MATH ERROR! A starting value is a JUDGMENT call, just like it is whether you deduct points for errors or anything else that goes on in the field of play. This was NOT just a matter of entering the wrong number, or failing to read a number correctly, or misadding a bunch of numbers. At the beginning of each guy's routine, the judges are given a list of the things that are to be performed in the routine. They have to judge, based on that and some rather loosely defined sets of standards what that starting score should be. This is determined from scratch, based on those judgements EVERY time the guy competes. It is not some standard number that is simply read of a sheet and entered into a scoring computer. That is why, if you are going to complain about your adjudged starting score, that you do it at the time that is assessed, not later after everything is over. It is the same thing as the NFL instant replay. There are certain field of play judgements that are permitted to be protested. If you don't throw the red flag before the next play, you lose the opportunity to challenge. And the reason for this is obvious. Once you get down the line, you have to have finality. Otherwise you open the whole damn thing up to rejudging, including the issue of whther the Korean had the proper points deducted from his score based on the errors in his performance. Bottom line: The starting score was not properly adjudged against the set of standards (not that it was misadded or misentered). EVERYONE, including the Koreans know that you have to watch that crap to make sure the judges assess your routine properly (this happens all of the time where the judges do not assess the level of difficulty at which you feel your routine deserves). EVERYONE, including the Koreans know that if you disagree with that assessment, the rules are that you have a certain time period in which to challenge their asessment or you lose the opportunity to do so. The Koreans did not throw the red flag in time. THEY LOSE. Our boy deserves the win and the medal. End of story. You can't go back and give Travis the TD against Oakland and give the Bills the win either. And I don't hear anyone claiming that the Raiders should do it out of the goodness of their hearts either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesir Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 Your anology doesn't work. This would be like New England going into the next Super Bowl with 10 points on the board before kickoff. Its a joke, Hamm knows it. 79102[/snapback] I agree, there is a difference between a blown call and accidently giving a team 2 points for a field goal instead of 3. Winning with honor has been replaced by win whether you deserve it or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sweet baboo Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 great - we have a gold medal we didnt deserve. . . . woo hoo ... and I don't want to hear about how the Korean "should have had points deducted anyway for adding a third hold" or whatever. That's HUMAN error by the judges. Thats why we have HUMAN judges. Hamm's error was caused by bad math, not by a group of judges missing something. He should use that Gold Medal as a coaster. Or, give it to its rightful owner. 79042[/snapback] are you !@#$ing kidding me? don't make apologies for the koreans...like the article says, you don't !@#$ing use hindsite to correct mistakes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
stevestojan Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 you don't !@#$ing use hindsite to correct mistakes 79130[/snapback] well, you can't very well use foresite to correct mistakes! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesir Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 All of you people who keep insisting this was nothing more than a math error do not know what you are talking about. THIS WAS NOT JUST A MATH ERROR! A starting value is a JUDGMENT call, just like it is whether you deduct points for errors or anything else that goes on in the field of play. This was NOT just a matter of entering the wrong number, or failing to read a number correctly, or misadding a bunch of numbers. At the beginning of each guy's routine, the judges are given a list of the things that are to be performed in the routine. They have to judge, based on that and some rather loosely defined sets of standards what that starting score should be. This is determined from scratch, based on those judgements EVERY time the guy competes. It is not some standard number that is simply read of a sheet and entered into a scoring computer. That is why, if you are going to complain about your adjudged starting score, that you do it at the time that is assessed, not later after everything is over. It is the same thing as the NFL instant replay. There are certain field of play judgements that are permitted to be protested. If you don't throw the red flag before the next play, you lose the opportunity to challenge. And the reason for this is obvious. Once you get down the line, you have to have finality. Otherwise you open the whole damn thing up to rejudging, including the issue of whther the Korean had the proper points deducted from his score based on the errors in his performance. Bottom line: The starting score was not properly adjudged against the set of standards (not that it was misadded or misentered). EVERYONE, including the Koreans know that you have to watch that crap to make sure the judges assess your routine properly (this happens all of the time where the judges do not assess the level of difficulty at which you feel your routine deserves). EVERYONE, including the Koreans know that if you disagree with that assessment, the rules are that you have a certain time period in which to challenge their asessment or you lose the opportunity to do so. The Koreans did not throw the red flag in time. THEY LOSE. Our boy deserves the win and the medal. End of story. You can't go back and give Travis the TD against Oakland and give the Bills the win either. And I don't hear anyone claiming that the Raiders should do it out of the goodness of their hearts either. 79121[/snapback] A cohesive and convincing arguement. I now agree with you. I am flip flopping from the point of view of the Koreans should have paid better attention. However any analogy to a team sport of an extended duration such as footbal does not fly. The true "olympic spirit" thing to do would have been for Hamm to offer to share the gold. I guess I just want to see athletes who represent our country represent the best in sportsmanship. As I said earlier, if he would have said" a mistake was made, we are both champions", he would have been considered one of Americas GREATEST Olympic heros. Would that have been the easy thing to do...? No, but that's what would have made him such a hero. Now to me and many others he seems like a whinny child (in tights). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
theesir Posted October 21, 2004 Share Posted October 21, 2004 are you !@#$ing kidding me? don't make apologies for the koreans...like the article says, you don't !@#$ing use hindsite to correct mistakes 79130[/snapback] Hey you've got your Koreas mixed up, this was South Korea, their on our side, we should only be unsportsmanlike and unfair to the bad guys.... you know like NORTH Korea and Iran and France and countries like that, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts