The Left Tackle

[julian]

Okay, now you're venturing into obie_whine territory (where is that guy, by the way?). I'd really like to know how many teams have starting-caliber LT backups on their roster.

 

One could make the argument the Bills are better prepared than most, as Walker's move from RT to LT has met with solid reviews, and Chambers seems to have vastly improved, allowing him to move into the RT slot.

I dont think a couple series in the preseason is enough for a solid review, and i think Peters is banking on Kearny and peterson to expose our weakness at LT. Im not saying Walker wont play well, i hope to god he does, but the preseason is the preseason, so we will wait and see.

[eball]

I dont think a couple series in the preseason is enough for a solid review, and i think Peters is banking on Kearny and peterson to expose our weakness at LT. Im not saying Walker wont play well, i hope to god he does, but the preseason is the preseason, so we will wait and see.

Right. And in the meantime, perhaps you can help Bill compile the list of teams with quality LT backups waiting in the wings.

[Pyrite Gal]

He just isn't one of those top blockers yet, Bill. I can't call him that after one standout season. To me, all he had to do was get in here and duplicate last season, and he would've gotten paid. And if not I would've been right next to you guys who have been bashing management for not caving in to his demands. Its really a shame if he indeed isn't willing to put in one more season of work to get what we all want: Jason Peters happy and locked up long-term.

The question of whether he is a top blocker is clearly one of the various opinions that makes the NFL fun because everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, the arguments that he is "one of those top blockers" is not only buttressed by the fact his peers, coaches, and fans voted him the Pro Bowl starter, but:

 

1. His rapid rise from TE to ST to starting RT to starting LT is a statement of more than one season wonder status but marks three seasons of rapid and consistent progress. I would be more worried about him being a flash in the pan if he did suddenly showed talent at a position he never showed talent playing before, but his "sudden" talent is a natural progression in the path of achievement he has shown.

 

2. The basis for this talent is embodied in JMac declaring him the most athletically talented OL player he had ever coached. Again his production in 07 is consistent with this assessment rather than coming out of the blue.

 

3. The word on him in previous seasons has not been of him as a prima donna but as a player with good attitude who has routinely taken whatever role was assigned to him even if it was not the TE role which first attracted NFL interest to get him signed as a UDFA. He took an offensive lineman number right from the start, proved unblockable to earn a contributing role on the team and eventually proved himself to be an OL talent.

 

Is he proven to be an eventual HOF OL player?

 

Nope, not by a long shot and the Bills should show due diligence before rolling up the vault for him.

 

However, due diligence is not being juvenile to Peters being juvenile. Rather than holding their breath til the turn blue while Peters also holds his own breath, i think the Bills would be better sportsmen (and actually I think smarter businessmen as well) if they cut a deal with Peters which is more in line with the market reality (the NFL ain't a free market at all as the NFLPA and the NFL have made an agreement embodied in the CBA to restrain trade in an un-American way.

 

IMHO the Bills should deal with Peters as the partner which the players have become under the new CBA and enter into a deal which of course has an out if Peters cannot oass a physical and which shares the risk of peters getting hurt so that everyone feels felt held harmless if Peters really has a health problem.

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

The question of whether he is a top blocker is clearly one of the various opinions that makes the NFL fun because everyone is entitled to their opinion. However, the arguments that he is "one of those top blockers" is not only buttressed by the fact his peers, coaches, and fans voted him the Pro Bowl starter, but:

 

1. His rapid rise from TE to ST to starting RT to starting LT is a statement of more than one season wonder status but marks three seasons of rapid and consistent progress. I would be more worried about him being a flash in the pan if he did suddenly showed talent at a position he never showed talent playing before, but his "sudden" talent is a natural progression in the path of achievement he has shown.

 

2. The basis for this talent is embodied in JMac declaring him the most athletically talented OL player he had ever coached. Again his production in 07 is consistent with this assessment rather than coming out of the blue.

 

3. The word on him in previous seasons has not been of him as a prima donna but as a player with good attitude who has routinely taken whatever role was assigned to him even if it was not the TE role which first attracted NFL interest to get him signed as a UDFA. He took an offensive lineman number right from the start, proved unblockable to earn a contributing role on the team and eventually proved himself to be an OL talent.

 

Is he proven to be an eventual HOF OL player?

 

Nope, not by a long shot and the Bills should show due diligence before rolling up the vault for him.

 

However, due diligence is not being juvenile to Peters being juvenile. Rather than holding their breath til the turn blue while Peters also holds his own breath, i think the Bills would be better sportsmen (and actually I think smarter businessmen as well) if they cut a deal with Peters which is more in line with the market reality (the NFL ain't a free market at all as the NFLPA and the NFL have made an agreement embodied in the CBA to restrain trade in an un-American way.

 

IMHO the Bills should deal with Peters as the partner which the players have become under the new CBA and enter into a deal which of course has an out if Peters cannot oass a physical and which shares the risk of peters getting hurt so that everyone feels felt held harmless if Peters really has a health problem.

Thats all well and dandy, but the fact remains that he's only looked like an elite player in this league for one season. Its great to look at his career and see rapid improvement, but one season as a 'solid starter,' for lack of a better label, and one Pro Bowl season, do not make you one of the 2 or 3 best players at your position. He'll get Pace/Ogden money when he proves he's the sucessor to those kind of players: a franchise tackle a team can rely on to set the bar for their position year in and year out.

 

My opinion that all Peters needs to do to get paid is repeat last season hasn't changed.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Thats all well and dandy, but the fact remains that he's only looked like an elite player in this league for one season. Its great to look at his career and see rapid improvement, but one season as a 'solid starter,' for lack of a better label, and one Pro Bowl season, do not make you one of the 2 or 3 best players at your position. He'll get Pace/Ogden money when he proves he's the sucessor to those kind of players: a franchise tackle a team can rely on to set the bar for their position year in and year out.

 

My opinion that all Peters needs to do to get paid is repeat last season hasn't changed.

I'd say it was more than one, but either way that's at least one whole season more than Jake Long.

[The Senator]

I'd say it was more than one, but either way that's at least one whole season more than Jake Long.

Unfortunately, for reasons I cannot understand, #1 overall picks seem to be able to command a higher salary, right out of school, than slow-witted, undrafted free agents.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Unfortunately, for reasons I cannot understand, #1 overall picks seem to be able to command a higher salary, right out of school, than slow-witted, undrafted free agents.

Maybe you can explain why the Patriots bother to pay a 6th round pick more than veteran minimum then.

[The Senator]

Maybe you can explain why the Patriots bother to pay a 6th round pick more than veteran minimum then.

Link?

[HardyBoy]

I've been meaning to do a stats study for ages now......and I really don't have the spare time at the moment....but....

 

If you look at the 4 dominating LTs in recent times....

Jonathan Ogden

Orlando Pace

Walter Jones

Willie Roaf

.....2 have got SB rings.....1 helped get their team to a SB.....and 1 didn't get there.

 

At a glance one would have to say that teams with star LTs seem to have a much greater chance of reaching(& winning) the SB than teams that don't have one.

 

True, but it could also mean that the teams with those players on their roster are excellent talent evaluators (or just lucky) and that could translate into a better roster all around. Notice I didn't say draft choices, but players on the roster, because as we all know you don't have to draft a player....Yes I am using a bit of hopeful logic to associate the Bills FO to greatness!!

 

Of course you do need to pay your player....but your players also need show they want to get paid, what a mess.

[Pyrite Gal]

Thats all well and dandy, but the fact remains that he's only looked like an elite player in this league for one season. Its great to look at his career and see rapid improvement, but one season as a 'solid starter,' for lack of a better label, and one Pro Bowl season, do not make you one of the 2 or 3 best players at your position. He'll get Pace/Ogden money when he proves he's the sucessor to those kind of players: a franchise tackle a team can rely on to set the bar for their position year in and year out.

 

My opinion that all Peters needs to do to get paid is repeat last season hasn't changed.

I think the mistake by some here (and it is to be hoped the Bills staff and Parker but neither side has shown much intelligence on this so far as Parker refuses to talk and the Bills as best as I can tell want him to play another year before they do a deal) is that football intelligent folks should see there are more than two choices here.

 

The whole thing comes off as the same bizarre electoral campaign which has the GOP and the Dems both doing us a disservice by pretending there are only two choices here (there maybe in that case where you have to cast one vote but that vote needs to be based on candidates who admit the reality that there are at lot more than two choices for any problem).

 

A football intelligent outcome is actually beyond my expertise a bit as I do not know all the details of the situation or have command of all the factors involving the game.

 

However, it seems manifestly clear to me that the "right" choice for both the Bills and for Peters would be to:

 

1. Agree to a new contract which gives Peters a ton more money than he likely ever dreamed of and outpaces the potential size of all past Bill contracts.

2. The Bills and Peters operate as the partners that teams and the modern NFL players are today and together have the Bills certainly lay out a lot of cash in upfront or guaranteed money, but the back-end of the deal gives Peters the kings ransom in exchange for actual performance or simply staying on the roster.

 

This type of deal has a ton of details which will be the devil. No player would want to sign a deal which allows an NFL team to do what they currently have the full right to do which is cut a player at any time and walk away from any money they agreed to pay.

 

The Bills/Peters will need to find a happy medium which gives Peters enough cash upfront so that the Bills also join him in the risk that he will be able to perform at the growing rate he has consistently shown in his first years as a Bill. The team can manage the cap hit of this guaranteed payout by giving him a chunk of change up front and not paying yet but guaranteeing future bonuses (boni?).

 

In addition, some of this huge contract can be unguaranteed base salary which Peters gets if he plays well enough to make the roster but the Bills can walk away from if he sucks (or has some non-insured injury.

 

Peters needs to be adult enough to realize that Bills have already given him more money than a UDFA can reasonably expect with the extension which binds him to the Bills for three more seasons and that though he can reasonably be paid tons more because in the past three years he has not only produced at an amazing level becoming an NFL starter at LT after a UDFA pick-up as a TE.

 

However, the Bills need to be adult enough to realize that "merely" by making the Pro Bowl as an LT after he was a UDFA at TE that Peters has pulled off achievements while they certainly do not guarantee his a HOFer at LT really is quite phenomenal and easily (IMHO) justifies signing him to an even longer extension for largely but not completely guaranteed cash.

 

IMHO the problem here is not simply that Peters is a greedy doughnut eating slob who has shown only one season of phenomenal achievement (Would you agree that being passed over in the draft by everyone's judgment but then proving quickly good enough to force your way onto an active roster, switch positions, make a starting role and then be voted in as Pro Bowl starter is not phenomenal or did you predict that all along?).

 

The problem here is that both sides are simply holding their breath til they turn blue and are acting quite juvenile.

 

Together they need to reach a deal which shows Peters a lot but not all the money.

[The Senator]

OK, I get it now....all of these Peters threads are all just 'continuous loops' with everyone playing their own part, repeating the same stuff over and over and over....just when it seems almost finished, we start it all anew...so hey, I'll hold up my end of the log here...

 

"Screw Peters! He's under contract. He's got no leverage at all. The Bills hold all the cards. Plus, he's injured, outa shape, selfish, disloyal, and has a piss-poor attitude. If he want to piss away a promising career and never play NFL football again, I say let him ROT!!!!"

 

OK...who's turn is next?

[Pyrite Gal]

OK, I get it now....all of these Peters threads are all just 'continuous loops' with everyone playing their own part, repeating the same stuff over and over and over....just when it seems almost finished, we start it all anew...so hey, I'll hold up my end of the log here...

 

"Screw Peters! He's under contract. He's got no leverage at all. The Bills hold all the cards. Plus, he's injured, outa shape, selfish, disloyal, and has a piss-poor attitude. If he want to piss away a promising career and never play NFL football again, I say let him ROT!!!!"

 

OK...who's turn is next?

You and what army! (a simplistic idiotic response is not my usual overly verbose repetitive response but it seemed to be the appropriate next line in the chain you describe).