The Left Tackle

[julian]

Don't count on it - Peters has likely eaten his way out of a job. If I were you, I'd give up my hopes of ever seeing him in an NFL uniform again.

I dont think there is any doubt he will suit up again....I'm just hoping the front office of the bills makes damn sure its in Buffalo.

[The Senator]

The problem is that JP probably has that article memorized.

Too funny.

 

Don't count on that, either - it's not as if Mr. 9-Wondlerlic can even read, much less comprehend and retain that much information.

[Pyrite Gal]

A little more than that. It wasn't until the Wolford deal in '97 that most folks were made aware of the importance of the LT. At least from a paycheck point of view. And even then it wasn't talked about all that much until more recently(sorry if ten years is recent to me, maybe I'm old). Whatever it was, it wasn't since time immemorial as Max thinks.

Part of the reason that the conversation amped up a bit in 93 was because the economics of the game changed a lot when the NFL and NFLPA settled several lawsuits and established the foundations of the salary cap under the comprehensive bargaining agreement.

 

This agreement brought increased focus and agreement to the LT's importance to the OL not only because people said so but because they put their money where the mouths were and routinely would pay more for the LT than the other OL positions (in the first decade or so of the CBA ironically, the one exception to the LT getting all the top 10 OL salaries was what the Bills paid to Reuben Brown).

 

The LT position also gained in prominence as relative to the franchise tag value of other positions, the LT salaries surpassed what it took to buy most other positions.

 

The Wolford 97 deal was not a cause of folks placing importance on the LT it seems mostly to have been a demonstration of an effect.

 

One can easily try to paint this as a fad rather than as some statement about the importance of the LT on the football field, but to do this one has to also make the assumption that virtually all teams have bought into this fad to the extent they are willing to put real money on the line in terms of the salary cap allocation to this position.

 

While possible this view does not seem probable at all and the factors folks have mentioned such as focus on guarding the blindside, the usual placement of the Ds best rusher to exploit the blindside and a factor I do not think has drawn as much attention as it should in this thread that the RT has the advantage of having both a Guard on one shoulder and the TE on the other while the LT simply needs to be both big enough to block at the point of attack for the run but also agile enough to block a rusher coming around the outside where he has no protection. The LT is unique in that no other OL player has to play with his outside uncovered and thus he is worth more than a C, a G or an RT.

[colin]

the big deal with the lt (aside from the fact that it is the most important OL possy) is that in the nfl it is hard to find a guy to play it, more so than other positions. same thing w cb. you overpay to get a player in those positions because of scarcity, more so than because of the bottom line W/L help it gives you in most cases.

 

while i really want JP on our team, i agree with an above poster who said he'd rather have a kick ass group of OL rather than a particular stand out one possy.

[stuckincincy]

We've read and heard a lot over the past month or so of the importance of the Left Tackle. Some have even said that it is the second most important position in football. That seems a little silly to me, but if I remember correctly, it wasn't even until a few years ago that people started talking of the [so called] importance of the left tackle. And now it seems as if it is all I hear about. Maybe it makes people feel like they know something about the game of football when they say things like,"you have to protect the quarterback's blind side." I don't know.

 

I always thought that an Offensive line is best when it plays as a unit. I would think that it would only be important to have a great LT,as compared to the rest of the line, if that line as a whole kinda sucked. The reasoning being;if the QB's going to get hit anyway it would be best if it wasn't from the blind side. Every week we see highlights where QB's get hit straight on from the right side, and you say to yourself "how did he not see that guy." I'm just wondering if all this LT talk is more just a function of it being the current darling topic(possibly created by the agents of LT's) than of the actual importance of the position. Don't get me wrong, it's not that I don't think the LT isn't an important position, just not that much more than any other on the line.

 

I don't know what the next most important position in football is, but if I had to choose only one, I'm pretty sure I would take an All-Pro center over an All-Pro LT any day.

 

Having a good blocking FB or H Back, who happen to have good hands, goes a long way against having to pay the prevailing rate for top LT.

 

I agree about the Center.

[Bill from NYC]

Part of the reason that the conversation amped up a bit in 93 was because the economics of the game changed a lot when the NFL and NFLPA settled several lawsuits and established the foundations of the salary cap under the comprehensive bargaining agreement.

 

This is completely true. I heard Jackie Slater talk about exactly what you said above on Sirius Radio.

 

Before free agency, players were pretty much at the mercy of the owners. The ones who DID make the bg bucks were primarily the "big name" players who sold the tickets, such as quarterbacks, running backs, and wideouts. There were also some "big name" defenders such as Joe Greene, Taylor, Butkus, etc. Most fans pay to watch these guys. They don't pay to watch Orlando Pace or Anthony Munoz.

 

After free agency took hold the owners no longer had a choice. They would HAVE to spend the big bucks on LTs if they wanted to protect the blindside of the quarterback and in essence, win football games. Couple this with the scarcity of great LTs and you have 10 million dollar blockers.

 

Although a couple of posters in particular take their lack of football insight to an extreme level, it doens't surprise me at all that folks underestimate the importance Peters had to this team, especially when we are thin up front. If JP Losman was a pro bowler instead of a flop, posters would be screming to give him whatever he wants. I think they would. Did JP get any pro bowl consideration ever? Of course not, but he has a leigon of die hard fans right here despite the lack of production. I hope that some can see the point I am trying to make.

 

Look, nobody feels worse about this situation than me. That said, I am ready to start the season as a Bills Fan and root for my team. I'll be there in 2 1/ weeks. However, underestimating the value of having a very good/potentially great LT on a team is silly imo. So is pretending that the Bills will be as good without Jason Peters.

[The Senator]

Look, nobody feels worse about this situation than me. That said, I am ready to start the season as a Bills Fan and root for my team. I'll be there in 2 1/ weeks. However, underestimating the value of having a very good/potentially great LT on a team is silly imo. So is pretending that the Bills will be as good without Jason Peters.

I'll bring the crullers! (Only I don't have enough for Jason - no one does - so don't tell him what lot/pole we're at; now that's he's not doing anything on Sunday afternoons and has no income, he might just try and crash a few tailgates for some free barbecue. )

GO BILLSSS!!!!

 

19 and 0 baby!!!!!

[julian]

Although a couple of posters in particular take their lack of football insight to an extreme level, it doens't surprise me at all that folks underestimate the importance Peters had to this team, especially when we are thin up front. If JP Losman was a pro bowler instead of a flop, posters would be screming to give him whatever he wants. I think they would. Did JP get any pro bowl consideration ever? Of course not, but he has a leigon of die hard fans right here despite the lack of production. I hope that some can see the point I am trying to make.

wow...well done, I think this paragraph is spot on

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

This is completely true. I heard Jackie Slater talk about exactly what you said above on Sirius Radio.

 

Before free agency, players were pretty much at the mercy of the owners. The ones who DID make the bg bucks were primarily the "big name" players who sold the tickets, such as quarterbacks, running backs, and wideouts. There were also some "big name" defenders such as Joe Greene, Taylor, Butkus, etc. Most fans pay to watch these guys. They don't pay to watch Orlando Pace or Anthony Munoz.

 

After free agency took hold the owners no longer had a choice. They would HAVE to spend the big bucks on LTs if they wanted to protect the blindside of the quarterback and in essence, win football games. Couple this with the scarcity of great LTs and you have 10 million dollar blockers.

 

Although a couple of posters in particular take their lack of football insight to an extreme level, it doens't surprise me at all that folks underestimate the importance Peters had to this team, especially when we are thin up front. If JP Losman was a pro bowler instead of a flop, posters would be screming to give him whatever he wants. I think they would. Did JP get any pro bowl consideration ever? Of course not, but he has a leigon of die hard fans right here despite the lack of production. I hope that some can see the point I am trying to make.

 

Look, nobody feels worse about this situation than me. That said, I am ready to start the season as a Bills Fan and root for my team. I'll be there in 2 1/ weeks. However, underestimating the value of having a very good/potentially great LT on a team is silly imo. So is pretending that the Bills will be as good without Jason Peters.

He just isn't one of those top blockers yet, Bill. I can't call him that after one standout season. To me, all he had to do was get in here and duplicate last season, and he would've gotten paid. And if not I would've been right next to you guys who have been bashing management for not caving in to his demands. Its really a shame if he indeed isn't willing to put in one more season of work to get what we all want: Jason Peters happy and locked up long-term.

[The Senator]

He just isn't one of those top blockers yet, Bill. I can't call him that after one standout season. To me, all he had to do was get in here and duplicate last season, and he would've gotten paid. And if not I would've been right next to you guys who have been bashing management for not caving in to his demands. Its really a shame if he indeed isn't willing to put in one more season of work to get what we all want: Jason Peters happy and locked up long-term.

I feel likewise, B³ - well, maybe not so concerned that he's happy - I couldn't care less about whether a guy making $5M or more a year is 'happy' - and, I'm still concerned about how well he's recovered from the groin-tear/hernia thing.

 

But I would like to see him return to top form and, if that happens, certainly would want him locked up into a long-term contract. Do you think he'd actually honor that next contract for more than two seasons?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

I'm still concerned about how well he's recovered from the groin-tear/hernia thing.

I think we all get that, Sen.

But I would like to see him return to top form and, if that happens, certainly would want him locked up into a long-term contract. Do you think he'd actually honor the next one for more than two years?

By "happy" I just mean "not holding out." And I certainly hope his $40 million signing bonus and $10 million annual salary would keep him in camp for awhile.

[The Senator]

I think we all get that, Sen.

 

By "happy" I just mean "not holding out." And I certainly hope his $40 million signing bonus and $10 million annual salary would keep him in camp for awhile.

So you're sayin' we don't have to throw in some language or clause that 'no one shall ever be entitled to have a higher salary than Jason Peters'?

[2020 Our Year For Sure]

So you're sayin' we don't have to throw in some language or clause that 'no one shall ever be entitled to have a higher salary than Jason Peters'?

I thought we'd give him the mega deal, then immediately sign Fowler for twice that amount just to mess with Parker.

[Bill from NYC]

He just isn't one of those top blockers yet, Bill. I can't call him that after one standout season.

 

This is where we disagree, and why this board is great. It allows us to offer differing opinions to each other. I think that the kid is awesome, and that we haven't had anything close to Peters since Wolford.

 

I agree that a lot of this is his fault but unlike some, I don't think he shoulders all of the blame. I also think that Jauron should be on the hot seat for leaving the team somewhat unprepared in terms of having a deep enough OL.

 

Nothing but my $.02.

[eball]

I agree that a lot of this is his fault but unlike some, I don't think he shoulders all of the blame. I also think that Jauron should be on the hot seat for leaving the team somewhat unprepared in terms of having a deep enough OL.

Okay, now you're venturing into obie_whine territory (where is that guy, by the way?). I'd really like to know how many teams have starting-caliber LT backups on their roster.

 

One could make the argument the Bills are better prepared than most, as Walker's move from RT to LT has met with solid reviews, and Chambers seems to have vastly improved, allowing him to move into the RT slot.

[bbills17]

Its always been important to "protect the blindside", because thats were the best pass rushers are.

Its really that simple.

 

Not always true. All the great pass rushers move around to get favourable matchups, they don't always line up on the right side. It's even more common if a team has an All Pro LT, the RDE will roam all over the place and at times even stay away from that side completely.

[Bill from NYC]

Okay, now you're venturing into obie_whine territory (where is that guy, by the way?). I'd really like to know how many teams have starting-caliber LT backups on their roster.

 

One could make the argument the Bills are better prepared than most, as Walker's move from RT to LT has met with solid reviews, and Chambers seems to have vastly improved, allowing him to move into the RT slot.

 

Look at the big picture e-ball, if of course you are able to see outside your "tunnel of love".

 

Chambers impressed me a lot, but he has little to no experience. I have always been fond of Walker, but he is a prototype RT and is inexperienced at LT. Who does this leave, Bell? Wow.

 

Simply count me if you will that thinks it is good to draft a blocker somewhat early round blocker almost every year, especially if you take over a team in which the OL is the biggest, most glaring weakness. Playing in the elements would also increase the need, or so one would think.

 

Makes no sense, right?

[stuckincincy]

Not always true. All the great pass rushers move around to get favourable matchups, they don't always line up on the right side. It's even more common if a team has an All Pro LT, the RDE will roam all over the place and at times even stay away from that side completely.

 

[eball]

Look at the big picture e-ball, if of course you are able to see outside your "tunnel of love".

 

Chambers impressed me a lot, but he has little to no experience. I have always been fond of Walker, but he is a prototype RT and is inexperienced at LT. Who does this leave, Bell? Wow.

 

Simply count me if you will that thinks it is good to draft a blocker somewhat early round blocker almost every year, especially if you take over a team in which the OL is the biggest, most glaring weakness. Playing in the elements would also increase the need, or so one would think.

 

Makes no sense, right?

Bill, your belief that a team should draft an early-round blocker every year is all well and good. It still doesn't answer my question of how many teams can lose their starting-caliber LT and send in a backup who won't miss a beat. Are 31 other teams stacked with LTs ready to fill in? The Bills appear at this point to have some folks on the roster who have made the situation at least bearable until Jason wakes up and comes back to the team. That, in my mind, is the definition of depth. Questioning the "depth after depth" is really quite silly.

[julian]

Not always true. All the great pass rushers move around to get favourable matchups, they don't always line up on the right side. It's even more common if a team has an All Pro LT, the RDE will roam all over the place and at times even stay away from that side completely.

 

lol ok...If you have a LT who is easily beaten like a dirty rug...the RDE whom almost always is your teams best pass rusher, is not moving anywhere. Simply no need to move, when they do move around it's because your LT is dominating him or thier giving him plenty of help. The point being, if you dont have a All Pro LT then he will be abused all day until hes helped...which then handcuffs your offense when you have to keep people in for help with protection...not rocket science