pretty decent article

[dave mcbride]

Note that Dilfer really criticizes his coaching in Tampa Bay (when Wyche was there).

 

http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/31/sports/f...wanted=2&em

[VOR]

With Hardy and Parrish missing that Colts pre-season game, and Walker having to matchup with Freeney, I thought the Bills' offense under JP (or even Trent) would have been non-existent. Not only was it not, it was pretty freaking good! I attribute most of that to Turk Schonert's schemes.

[dave mcbride]

With Hardy and Parrish missing that Colts pre-season game, and Walker having to matchup with Freeney, I thought the Bills' offense under JP (or even Trent) would have been non-existent. Not only was it not, it was pretty freaking good! I attribute most of that to Turk Schonert's schemes.

Upon reading it, it was possibly a disservice to JP to draft him in the first round. He had little experience with any sort of pro offense, and played for a bad team. He was basically a project drafted on raw talent. It happens a lot, but in the future I'd err toward drafting those types of QBs a little later (2nd/3rd).

[PromoTheRobot]

Great article and could well explain JP's shortcomings up to now. We should save this article and post it every time someone raves about some can't-miss college QB who plays in the Spread.

 

PTR

[Adam]

JP's main weakness is that he just seems like he thinks we have to score on every snap of the ball- now that would be a good mindset if it were possible, but it adds to the pressure caused by lacking good personnel and pressure caused by the defense. He didn't look like that at all against Indy though. One of his best overall showings.

[PromoTheRobot]

JP's main weakness is that he just seems like he thinks we have to score on every snap of the ball- now that would be a good mindset if it were possible, but it adds to the pressure caused by lacking good personnel and pressure caused by the defense. He didn't look like that at all against Indy though. One of his best overall showings.

That might be true if JP was calling his own plays, which we know he doesn't. (nor Edwards.) What I see as JP's failing is the ability to process what is happening around him quick enough to respond to it effectively. That means seeing and hitting his receiver before the pocket collapses.

 

PTR

[GG]

Cool, you're talking about last year's JP controversy. Not this year's JP controversy.

[Pyrite Gal]

Upon reading it, it was possibly a disservice to JP to draft him in the first round. He had little experience with any sort of pro offense, and played for a bad team. He was basically a project drafted on raw talent. It happens a lot, but in the future I'd err toward drafting those types of QBs a little later (2nd/3rd).

The mistake in drafting JP was not necessarily drafting him in the 1st round (the Bills definitely needed a replacement QB for Bledsoe in the future and the best possibility the next year for drafting if the Bills had not traded up for JP was Alex Smith whom has since produced even worse results than those which have brought JP hatred from many Bills fans) but the mistake was to throw him in as out starter compounding the error TD made in extending Bledsoe.

 

JP like it or not was a project when we took him but he was and is a very talented project whom we trained and used as though he was ready to start in the NFL when what he needed was to sit and watch and practice the pro game for at least a full year, probably a second full year and even at least part of a third year but probably a full year before we threw him into the game.

 

Is such a schedule even possible now in an NFL where the future is now? Yep. This was basically the timing that the Jets used to develop Chad Pennington who also was a late 1st rounder and this paid off as his first year as a starter coincided with NYJ making the playoffs.

 

JP could have been a more talented version of Pennington if we had the patience to train him to start in his 4th year rather than throw him in with starter duty too early in his career.

 

Instead, even JP admitted he was handed the starter role by TD before he had done enough on the field to earn it

[Pyrite Gal]

That might be true if JP was calling his own plays, which we know he doesn't. (nor Edwards.) What I see as JP's failing is the ability to process what is happening around him quick enough to respond to it effectively. That means seeing and hitting his receiver before the pocket collapses.

 

PTR

Actually, JP has demonstrated a pretty good ability to read the situation under duress because it is reminiscent to him of his time running for his life behind the Tulane line. I would point to a play such as the one where the Bills C snapped the ball over JPs head, he made a great athletic move in catching the ball on the bounce and even more impressively kept his eyes looking downfield where he saw Gaines intelligently stick with his route and he hit him for a 1st down rather than take what seemed to be a certain loss.

 

In games like last year against NYJ when Edwards was ineffective and then got knocked out of the game, JP came off the bench and taking over a situation where the O was not working and he was called upon to freelance he engineered a comeback and win.

 

From what I saw JP his mental problems were not based in his ability to read and react correctly quickly, his problem was when he got too much time to think and he got sacked double pumping rather than throwing the ball more instinctively or overthrowing short to medium passes and bouncing them when if it was a deep throw he could hit some beauties with Evans.

 

The question it seems to me is whether one could train JP to be productive in the medium game and on set plays as he is when he is running for his life.

[Sisyphean Bills]

Agreed. He has always seemed to be pressing to make plays, whether there is anything there or not. The jumpy footwork and double clutching can translate directly into inaccurate throws. Contributing factors all: coming from a poor college team where it was all on him to be the offense, getting thrown to the wolves early, and knowing that his coaches would yo-yo him out of the job rather than stick it out to save themselves (aka, lousy coaching).

[Flbillsfan#1]

Upon reading it, it was possibly a disservice to JP to draft him in the first round. He had little experience with any sort of pro offense, and played for a bad team. He was basically a project drafted on raw talent. It happens a lot, but in the future I'd err toward drafting those types of QBs a little later (2nd/3rd).

I don't think the problem was the round JP was drafted in, the team that drafted him was the problem. Coming to an UNSTABLE team that kept changing coaches & systems has been a MAJOR obstacle NOBODY could overcome. Had JP been drafted by the Packers & had a chance to sit behind Favre learning one system, he would have been MUCH better off.

[Kelly the Dog]

I think the problem with JP was several different coaches and schemes, jerking him around, terrible run blocking and pass blocking his first few years, terrible receiving, terrible defense that rarely gave us good field position and often playing behind, terrible coaching and game planning, rarely playing to his strengths, terrible TEs and average WRs, combined with hard schedules.

 

Oh, and JP himself.

 

It was a recipe for disaster all along.

[Steely Dan]

That might be true if JP was calling his own plays, which we know he doesn't. (nor Edwards.) What I see as JP's failing is the ability to process what is happening around him quick enough to respond to it effectively. That means seeing and hitting his receiver before the pocket collapses.

 

PTR

 

His main problem is that he makes decisions too slowly.

 

I don't think the problem was the round JP was drafted in, the team that drafted him was the problem. Coming to an UNSTABLE team that kept changing coaches & systems has been a MAJOR obstacle NOBODY could overcome. Had JP been drafted by the Packers & had a chance to sit behind Favre learning one system, he would have been MUCH better off.

 

[IDBillzFan]

I think the problem with JP was several different coaches and schemes, jerking him around, terrible run blocking and pass blocking his first few years, terrible receiving, terrible defense that rarely gave us good field position and often playing behind, terrible coaching and game planning, rarely playing to his strengths, terrible TEs and average WRs, combined with hard schedules.

 

Oh, and JP himself.

 

It was a recipe for disaster all along.

Admittedly, I've never played this game, but to remove any chance to audible from a starting NFL quarterback has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. That, to me, is unforgivable from head to toe.

[Steely Dan]

Admittedly, I've never played this game, but to remove any chance to audible from a starting NFL quarterback has to be the most ridiculous thing I've ever heard. That, to me, is unforgivable from head to toe.

 

That's why Schonert is giving Edwards the freedom to audible. I was never a fan of Schonert as a QB coach but he looks like he may be a decent OC. I think it was a step up at the QB coach position to have AVP take over those duties.

[VOR]

All I need to see to know that Fairchild was screwing JP up was seeing JP eschew scrambling for a first when he had clear paths the past couple years. And to be fair, while JP shares some of the blame, it's not like he had even an average offense around him.

[PromoTheRobot]

His main problem is that he makes decisions too slowly.

I believe that is what I said.

 

PTR

[Beerball]

Cool, you're talking about last year's JP controversy. Not this year's JP controversy.

Could you remind me of what exactly "this years JP controversy" is?

[Pyrite Gal]

I believe that is what I said.

 

PTR

It is what you said and the problem is that this simply is untrue of JP in specific circumstances. He learned the game and did well with it in college making productive decisions very quickly while running for his life at Tulane. This is fine for college, but JP quickly learned that it is difficult to get away with relying on this type of game in the NFL (Favre basically did that with GB but Favre is Favre and no one mistakes JP for Favre despite his strong arm and very good running ability.

 

JPs problems as shown in particular plays like the outstanding one he made cited above where he caught the ball on the bounce kept looking downfield and hit Gaines or in games such as NYJ last year where he led the team to a comeback win is that though he can make good decisions quickly in a pinch, he has shown more limited ability to do this when he is given the typical NFL QB straitjacket of running the play just like the OC designed it.

 

It appears to me not so much that JP cannot make quick decisions, but that he has been taught and buys into the idea that he needs to go through all the progressions even if he sees a pass he thinks he can make and that he seems to make his most vexing plays when he has bags of time and he throws a bouncer to the receiver when his brain gets involved but can do quite well when he is simply asked to react or to airmail it deep.

 

The sad thing is that with the revolving door of Bills OCs and HCs he has had in his four seasons no OC has been good enough to craft a hybrid system for JP that makes good use of his rocket arm, his athletic legs and moxie that saw him try to deliver blows to the defender for a couple of meaningless yards in the first year of his career rather than simply get out of bounds once he has the first down.

 

It makes little difference as JP is done as a Bills starter after he himself declared the Jax game make or break for him last year and by anyone's estimation he broke.

 

Maybe JP could restore his teammates faith and belief in him with a couple of good outings. Maybe he could restore the coaches faith with some good practices. However, it seems pretty impossible that JP would ever win over media types like WGR or Sully or the small group of vocal fans who simply hate him even though he is a Bill that are sometimes seen right here on TSW.

 

JP is almost certainly gone when he gets a shot at the free market and ironically he is young enough that he will almost certainly get a huge contract that either pays him a kings ransom flat out or at worse is based on his achievements.

 

The key seems to me for JP to make a good choice in a future employer to play for a team with a solid OL , some WRs that can go deep and/or an ST that keeps the pressure off of him with good field position.

 

Can JP make a bad team good?

 

No. I doubt this.

 

However, could he keep a good team good or even make a good team very good.

 

From what I have seen with the right coaching two time losers like Brad Johnson are capable of leading their team to good seasons. With better coaching I think JP can be a definite asset. He has demonstrated this episodically through his career.

[fbzh2]

It is what you said and the problem is that this simply is untrue of JP in specific circumstances. He learned the game and did well with it in college making productive decisions very quickly while running for his life at Tulane. This is fine for college, but JP quickly learned that it is difficult to get away with relying on this type of game in the NFL (Favre basically did that with GB but Favre is Favre and no one mistakes JP for Favre despite his strong arm and very good running ability.

 

JPs problems as shown in particular plays like the outstanding one he made cited above where he caught the ball on the bounce kept looking downfield and hit Gaines or in games such as NYJ last year where he led the team to a comeback win is that though he can make good decisions quickly in a pinch, he has shown more limited ability to do this when he is given the typical NFL QB straitjacket of running the play just like the OC designed it.

 

It appears to me not so much that JP cannot make quick decisions, but that he has been taught and buys into the idea that he needs to go through all the progressions even if he sees a pass he thinks he can make and that he seems to make his most vexing plays when he has bags of time and he throws a bouncer to the receiver when his brain gets involved but can do quite well when he is simply asked to react or to airmail it deep.

 

The sad thing is that with the revolving door of Bills OCs and HCs he has had in his four seasons no OC has been good enough to craft a hybrid system for JP that makes good use of his rocket arm, his athletic legs and moxie that saw him try to deliver blows to the defender for a couple of meaningless yards in the first year of his career rather than simply get out of bounds once he has the first down.

 

It makes little difference as JP is done as a Bills starter after he himself declared the Jax game make or break for him last year and by anyone's estimation he broke.

 

Maybe JP could restore his teammates faith and belief in him with a couple of good outings. Maybe he could restore the coaches faith with some good practices. However, it seems pretty impossible that JP would ever win over media types like WGR or Sully or the small group of vocal fans who simply hate him even though he is a Bill that are sometimes seen right here on TSW.

 

JP is almost certainly gone when he gets a shot at the free market and ironically he is young enough that he will almost certainly get a huge contract that either pays him a kings ransom flat out or at worse is based on his achievements.

 

The key seems to me for JP to make a good choice in a future employer to play for a team with a solid OL , some WRs that can go deep and/or an ST that keeps the pressure off of him with good field position.

 

Can JP make a bad team good?

 

No. I doubt this.

 

However, could he keep a good team good or even make a good team very good.

 

From what I have seen with the right coaching two time losers like Brad Johnson are capable of leading their team to good seasons. With better coaching I think JP can be a definite asset. He has demonstrated this episodically through his career.

 

I pretty much agree with your assessment