End of Civilization-$53 Trillion Deficit

[StupidNation]

Our economy is spiraling into oblivion. You want Obama with national health care? You want McCain with perpetual war? Anyone who supports the continuance of the welfare state deserves to be thrown in as well. Here are the facts and a great article by Glenn Beck on our future using facts that one cannot ignore unless you are criminal towards future generations.

 

http://www.cnn.com/2008/US/03/26/beck.deficit/index.html

... According to the latest Social Security and Medicare Trustees report (and I use that term loosely since it has the word "trust" in it) released earlier this week, the economic asteroid will first make impact in the year 2019 when the Medicaid trust fund becomes insolvent.

 

Only an immediate 122 percent increase in Medicare taxes and a 26 percent increase in Social Security taxes can prevent (or more likely, delay) its impact.

 

Anyone want to pay that and protect our future? Yeah, I thought not.

 

Realizing that Americans have become pretty much numb to these kinds of ridiculous sounding proposals, U.S. Treasury Secretary Henry Paulson tried to up the ante this week. "Without change," he said, "Rising costs will drive government spending to unprecedented levels, consume nearly all projected federal revenues, and threaten America's future prosperity."

 

But we need to feed the poor... but what happens when we are all poor and can't feed ourselves? How can I give money to the poor, as I do weekly, when the future of my country will be poor? I feed the poor, but not by force that will eventually drag us both down.

 

That means no money is left for anything else. Nothing. No Department of Defense or Homeland Security, no Department of Energy, no Department of Justice, no Environmental Protection Agency, no Internal Revenue Service. Actually, knowing our government, they'd probably keep the IRS going somehow.

 

Of course, none of this is exactly breaking news. Our leaders have known about this rapidly approaching asteroid for years now and they've done nothing but debate it. At the same time, I'm a realist. I understand that this stuff is "the third rail of politics," but our leaders' negligence on this issue is damn near criminal. No, correction, it is criminal.

 

Americans aren't afraid of the truth. In fact, we crave the truth only slightly more than we crave a leader who will actually give it to us. But part of the problem with this issue is that numbers followed by 12 zeroes aren't very relatable to the average American. Instead, try this on for size.

 

Anyone who votes anything but Bob Barr this election is destroying this country, and I'm not some entrenched libertarian. He's the only 3rd party candidate with political experience who is saying this. $53,000,000,000,000 in debt is more than the entire U.S economy and anyone who votes status quo is the problem.

[Steely Dan]

What're your feelings on the amount of the Iraq war?

 

I've got news for you. Everybody is already paying for universal healthcare. When people declare bankruptcy or are given free care which some hospitals have to do who do you think pays for that? Something has to be done to stop the runaway health care costs and if everyone is insured then the prices will rise much slower. Why do you think the pharmaceutical companies and healthcare insurers are against this? They aren't against it because it will increase their profits.

 

It's easy to make arguments that sound good but there are arguments based on fact that are good.

 

What should be done with Social Security? Should it be eliminated?

[StupidNation]

What're your feelings on the amount of the Iraq war?

 

I don't think we should have went to war, and the amount is completely unsubstantiated to what we have in taxes and for that reason alone we should not have went in to change regimes.

 

I've got news for you. Everybody is already paying for universal healthcare. When people declare bankruptcy or are given free care which some hospitals have to do who do you think pays for that?

 

I agree with you, I just don't see how health care is a right or paid for. Our only rights we have as citizens are life, liberty and pursuit of happiness. The rest are manufactured to appease a constituency.

 

Something has to be done to stop the runaway health care costs and if everyone is insured then the prices will rise much slower.

 

Just the opposite, the costs will go up much faster. An example would be schooling and college. Do you college tuition has gone up slowly with grants and cheap loans? Just the opposite. The gov't steps in, the insurance companies step-up.

 

Why do you think the pharmaceutical companies and healthcare insurers are against this? They aren't against it because it will increase their profits.

 

The pharma companies love the idea, the insurers are against it because it will be out of their hands. An example is Bush's pharma plan that was pushed by big pharma and insurance companies alike. Really health care should be between the doctor and patient. If the patient cannot pay then he doesn't get service. Doctors don't want to charge and arm and a leg and many of those that entered the field want to help people for next to nothing if they could, but because people think the doctor is "da man" and when he screws up you sue his a** well then you have insurance companies. You see the "I want something for nothing" crowd got what they wanted, and when they got it they didn't want it anymore so they want more protection for themselves thereby screwing up the system more.

 

You want to sue doctors who benefit society by lawyers who don't produce or serve anyone except financial interests? Well then you get insurance. When you get insurance you get them going for their profits to fight lawyers. Why do you think hand surgeons won't operate in Florida after 10pm? I also want to point out that Catholic hospitals used to take care of the needy mostly, with other charity groups out there. The reason why they don't do it as much in the past is because insurance.

 

It's easy to make arguments that sound good but there are arguments based on fact that are good.

 

It's easy to see answers by looking at history and at today. Reality is coming, and if we don't deal with it we are all screwed. We can't afford to pay for everyone. Its over, but we just pretend it's never going to happen. It's happening and we are in the process of losing our credit rating and the rosters are coming to roost over what will be a hyper-depression.

 

What should be done with Social Security? Should it be eliminated?

It has to be. Those that paid in deserve theirs because it's theirs. The gov't got use of the money at great interest rates while giving back hardly anything. Those that re using social security in the form of welfare need to get off and be trained to work, and those applying must be denied. We can't afford it. If we could I want evidence of how it's possible. It's not, and the illusion of the welfare state is over in 12 years whether we like it or not.

 

The problem with not fixing the system is that it's completely over for American strength. We are becoming a 3rd world nation on the liberalism which is destroying itself with its own laws. Everyone should get hand-outs, everyone should have the right to sue anyone over anything, and the morals that bound American society are being touted as intolerant and in their place comes motherment. Welfare has helped create the single-mother syndrome and helped give men the appearance that their place in the home is not needed for one example.

 

Well I could give further examples, but you get what you want in this country. If most people want to be impoverished, they are getting their wish.

[finknottle]

What're your feelings on the amount of the Iraq war?

 

One key difference between the McCain deficit and the Obama deficit: McCain's is largely spending on the war, which ends when the war ends. Obama's assumes a quick ending and earmarks the money to new social programs. Social programs, once started, never go away.

[blzrul]

The record setting deficits we've experienced since the 1980's are courtesy of the GOP, wingnut. We're still here. Eventually someone has to pay the piper. The difference between the Repigs and the Dems is that the Repigs want the middle class to shoulder the debt, and stay in debt forever, while they and their corporate bigwig buddies live high on the hog. The Dems have the "misguided" notion that those who benefit the most (which is NOT the middle class but the corporations who are reaping the benefit of all this government spending) should shoulder their fair share of the burden.

 

So the Repigs and neocon nutjobs take advantage of morons to keep them on this road screaming "They Want to Take Your Guns! They Want Homos to Marry! " etc. And you fall for it - they victimize the very people who put them in power and keep them there, knowing that appealing to COWARDICE works.

 

"Live free or die". "Don't Tread on Me." Whatever happened to that?

 

Moron.

[Hazed and Amuzed]

One key difference between the McCain deficit and the Obama deficit: McCain's is largely spending on the war, which ends when the war ends. Obama's assumes a quick ending and earmarks the money to new social programs. Social programs, once started, never go away.

 

 

This war however is built to sustain and with McCain more wars might follow. More war = more spending. Our country is going to sh-- and being at war in foreign nations hasn't helped thus far. So why don't we focus on social programs and rebuild what has been destroyed in our country over the last 8 years. If people really must be at war then why not wait till we get our own sh-- together. I'm not jut talking out of my ass here either. I've been to Iraq twice. I'm not in the Army anymore but in my MOS I did have top secret clearance and I still have friends in the Army doing the same job. In fact, one of my really good friends is in psyops and one thing they have all been able to agree on is that people here have no clue how this admin. is affecting the moral of the people who serve. Not only that but recruiters are having a hell of a time because of our policies. Go into a room w/ ten 18-25 year olds and ask how many will join our military. After the crickets are done chirping realize that our whole country has become disenfranchised with itself. McCain will not help that. In fact I can only see him hurting the moral of our nation. The problem here is that Americans think they have some entitlement to whatever helps them advance their prosperity and they feel this way without ever wanting to give back. "Make me richer, make me famous, give me this, give me that". Do something people!!! Make this country great again! We have ruined it and we have put people in charge who placate to our selfish wants. Anyone who does not see that a change is needed is blind to the world around them. By the word "change" I'm not implying Obama is the answer either. IMO though he is a better choice. We need to do something about the damage we've done, this personal la-la-land tunnel vision has got to go.

[John Adams]

Bob Barr is an embarrassing candidate. I voted for Harry Browne once but Barr doesn't believe in the Libertarian platform. He's a hypocrite.

[YellowLinesandArmadillos]

One key difference between the McCain deficit and the Obama deficit: McCain's is largely spending on the war, which ends when the war ends. Obama's assumes a quick ending and earmarks the money to new social programs. Social programs, once started, never go away.

 

Not true, McCain supports tax giveaways and research dollars for Insurance Cos, Bio research and Oil Cos. It isn't a question of welfare state v. non-welfare state, just which one each supports and by how much. And war spending to a certain extent is welfare for the Beltway Bandits. Waste, Fraud and Abuse is abounds in Iraq, wasting lots of tax payer dollars.

 

Further more as far the national health care issue raised by the poster of this thread... I am not sure which form would work and if it would but the middle men, wasting a lot of taxpayer dollars don't produce anything and are not an efficient arbiter of services. How can a middle man be the most profitable industry in the US, especially at taxpayer expense. Something is wrong with this business.

 

Insurance is suppose to enable us to pool our resources to more predictably pay for these expensive services when needed. The system is F'd up on so many levels, but the Republican anti-welfare crap doesn't hunt.

 

Ironically, I miss the days of Clinton, Delay and the line item veto, when both were competing on who could balance the budget faster. USDA as an example shrunk by over 30,000 employees and from what I remember so did the Department of Commerce. Now they are both over their pre-Clinton/Delay levels.

[UConn James]

One key difference between the McCain deficit and the Obama deficit: McCain's is largely spending on the war, which ends when the war ends. Obama's assumes a quick ending and earmarks the money to new social programs. Social programs, once started, never go away.

 

Which, with how past and present presidents of every party have used the military either for just causes or as their personal toy soldiers, will be.... never.

[blzrul]

Bob Barr is an embarrassing candidate. I voted for Harry Browne once but Barr doesn't believe in the Libertarian platform. He's a hypocrite.

My husband was a big Browne man. We were in Monserrat after the election and ran into a guy with a Harry Browne shirt. What are the odds.

 

Speaking of Barr the nutjob, I wonder how he stacks up against Sarah Palin?

[ExiledInIllinois]

One key difference between the McCain deficit and the Obama deficit: McCain's is largely spending on the war, which ends when the war ends. Obama's assumes a quick ending and earmarks the money to new social programs. Social programs, once started, never go away.

 

And do you want them to go away?

 

When will people finally admit that we are a better country since 1930.

 

Intervention works... People just don't want to admit it.

[BuffaloBorn1960]

The record setting deficits we've experienced since the 1980's are courtesy of the GOP, wingnut. We're still here. Eventually someone has to pay the piper. The difference between the Repigs and the Dems is that the Repigs want the middle class to shoulder the debt, and stay in debt forever, while they and their corporate bigwig buddies live high on the hog. The Dems have the "misguided" notion that those who benefit the most (which is NOT the middle class but the corporations who are reaping the benefit of all this government spending) should shoulder their fair share of the burden.

 

So the Repigs and neocon nutjobs take advantage of morons to keep them on this road screaming "They Want to Take Your Guns! They Want Homos to Marry! " etc. And you fall for it - they victimize the very people who put them in power and keep them there, knowing that appealing to COWARDICE works.

 

"Live free or die". "Don't Tread on Me." Whatever happened to that?

 

Moron.

ummm.... who controled congress in the 80's? Who earmarked all the pork barrel projects? and Who actually pays the taxes in the US?

[Alaska Darin]

When will people finally admit that we are a better country since 1930.

Yeah, all we needed was a huge war and everyone to put the infrastructure of the country in front of themselves.

 

But you keep giving credit to big social programs.

[Alaska Darin]

The record setting deficits we've experienced since the 1980's are courtesy of the GOP, wingnut. We're still here. Eventually someone has to pay the piper. The difference between the Repigs and the Dems is that the Repigs want the middle class to shoulder the debt, and stay in debt forever, while they and their corporate bigwig buddies live high on the hog. The Dems have the "misguided" notion that those who benefit the most (which is NOT the middle class but the corporations who are reaping the benefit of all this government spending) should shoulder their fair share of the burden.

 

So the Repigs and neocon nutjobs take advantage of morons to keep them on this road screaming "They Want to Take Your Guns! They Want Homos to Marry! " etc. And you fall for it - they victimize the very people who put them in power and keep them there, knowing that appealing to COWARDICE works.

 

"Live free or die". "Don't Tread on Me." Whatever happened to that?

 

Moron.

You are a parody of those you hate. Everything is the other guy's fault.

 

[Booster4324]

You are a parody of those you hate. Everything is the other guy's fault.

 

 

As are you. You supposedly hate all politicians, yet your bile is almost exclusively reserved for liberals. Oh and you ain't that sharp at GLB either.

[/dev/null]

As are you. You supposedly hate all politicians, yet your bile is almost exclusively reserved for liberals. Oh and you ain't that sharp at GLB either.

He held the Cows* to 9 points

[Alaska Darin]

As are you. You supposedly hate all politicians, yet your bile is almost exclusively reserved for liberals.

I don't hate all politicians.

 

I hate the whole liberal ideal and anyone who subscribes to it. I ain't apologizing for that. I especially hate the finger pointing and clinging to meaningless sound bytes, as if Obama/Biden are going to be any different than those they're running against.

Oh and you ain't that sharp at GLB either.

That stings. Why don't you spend some more time breaking down why you didn't win the only battle in the game that actually mattered?

 

Oh, and tell that to my safety. You know, the guy that scored the difference making TD yesterday.

[justnzane]

He held the Cows* to 9 points

...only because I dropped a TD and fumbled another

[Alaska Darin]

...only because I dropped a TD and fumbled another

There's always an excuse when the *Cows lose. Where's Fez with a 10 page writeup on how you really "won" but somehow didn't?

 

That really must have stung.

[justnzane]

There's always an excuse when the *Cows lose. Where's Fez with a 10 page writeup on how you really "won" but somehow didn't?

 

That really must have stung.

we'll destroy you in the conference final, and I guarantee it!!!