justnzane Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Yeah, justnzane and you really take me apart here before. I'm not a Republican you ninny. The poster here I disagree with the most is Wacka, who has his head half-up the Republican elephant's butt. don't be throwing me into your little rants. I think I have apologized more than once about throwing the neo-con label at you and others.
finknottle Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Using your logic you wouldn't have voted for Lincoln. By your logic, you shouldn't vote for anyone with *more* than three years experiance. It is a predictor of their ability to handle the job, nothing more. But just because there have been great presidents without it doesn't make it meaningless. Many technical jobs require applicant to have a Ph.D. And yet, Albert Einstein only had a bachelors degree! Should our national labs routinely admit well-spoken bachelor candidates who talk loftily of the transcendant research that they will perform? Should we buy into the argument that competing candidates, who bore us wth their detailed research proposals and papers on the work they have done, represent an old way of thinking? After all, we don't want to miss out on the next Einstein! And what about running a company? Sure, Bill Gates was a college dropout, and had no business experience before starting Microsoft. But as a director of a company tasked with picking the CEO, are you going to use his example to discount education and experience as criteria?
SDS Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 show a rationale argument that she wasn't. And the sexism is on the part of the republicans for cynically believing that women are stupid enough to vote for someone just because she's a woman. Have you ever paid attention to politics before? Either you don't or you are very young. Do you remember Bill Clinton's campaign promise - that he heavily promoted - that his cabinet would "look like America"? People vote the way they do for a variety of reasons. Most of those reasons are stupid.
finknottle Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Gov. Palin's VP candidacy will have little direct impact as history shows that VP candidates do little to sway voters. No one votes for the better VP choice. They just don't. What it does do is it indirectly affects the campaign by changing the dialog, the tone, and the media coverage. McCain is simply betting that those changes will ultimately favor him. This is why I think it is a great move - the possibility of changing the dynamic has tremoundous upside, and the irrelevance of the VP limits the downside (assuming no gaffes). I didn't see that happening with any of the 'official' candidates.
Lurker Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 and the irrelevance of the VP limits the downside (assuming no gaffes). Well, at least the VP debate should be 'Must See TV' now...
Nanker Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Here's why I'm concerned about Palin. If McCain is trying to win over the Hilltards (which he obviously is), that may backfire because Palin is a hunter and is pro-life. Not to mention the fact that the experience card is now completely off the table. It's done. McCain is 72 today...if something happens to him, Sarah Palin will be our president. Huh? I'd love to see her foreign policy record. It's as good as Obama's, and she's running for VP - not the top spot.
JK2000 Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 By your logic, you shouldn't vote for anyone with *more* than three years experiance. It is a predictor of their ability to handle the job, nothing more. But just because there have been great presidents without it doesn't make it meaningless. Many technical jobs require applicant to have a Ph.D. And yet, Albert Einstein only had a bachelors degree! Should our national labs routinely admit well-spoken bachelor candidates who talk loftily of the transcendant research that they will perform? Should we buy into the argument that competing candidates, who bore us wth their detailed research proposals and papers on the work they have done, represent an old way of thinking? After all, we don't want to miss out on the next Einstein! And what about running a company? Sure, Bill Gates was a college dropout, and had no business experience before starting Microsoft. But as a director of a company tasked with picking the CEO, are you going to use his example to discount education and experience as criteria? There's a difference between specific technical skills required by those professions and those required for effective public service.
Fewell733 Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 1. That is why she is chosen in August and not in November. It gives her the opportunity to make her/McCain's case and for the media/public to cross-examine that case. 2. The notion that any elected official understands and abides by the constitution is a quaint one. 3. At best (for either side) is the experience factor between her and Obama is a draw. The problem is that HE is the one running for president and there is only a very slim chance that she would be pressed into duty in the 1st year of the administration. Put it this way, who has "more experience" - Obama today or Palin 3 years into her VP term? Her experience meter revs into high gear starting day 1 and it would quickly pass anything Obama has ever done to date. 1. no dispute there 2. I'd like to have someone that isn't an ignoramus as president for a change. 3. Obama has demonstrated brilliance, that's how he got the nomination, not time spent in Washington. Executive experience in Alaska to me though doesn't equal time in the Senate in Washington as far as knowing how to run the country. But that's just my opinion. She could show herself to be brilliant too (in ways politicians do), she'll have that chance, but she hasn't faced the pressures of national campaigning. Obama's experience campaigning and facing that heat is likely far more demonstrative of his ability to lead than the experience of watching over what is basically an empty state.
Fewell733 Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Gov. Palin's VP candidacy will have little direct impact as history shows that VP candidates do little to sway voters. No one votes for the better VP choice. They just don't. What it does do is it indirectly affects the campaign by changing the dialog, the tone, and the media coverage. McCain is simply betting that those changes will ultimately favor him. I don't disagree, but I think this is precisely the reason the pick is so pathetic. It ignores what is actually best for America should McCain win, instead focusing only on the typical BS electoral politics.
Taro T Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Well thanks for the in depth but misguided analysis of my post but let me clarify. She's a horrible choice because McCain desperately needed a running mate with a massive background in economics. It's the single most important issue in this election. McCain has already stated that he's no Bernanke so the logical choice was to shore up that weakness with someone with some credentials. Instead he chose someone with virtually no credentials. I don't care how much the Republican's try to rationalize and justify this pick. It was HORRIBLE And for the record, I'm a centrist that is probably more right leaning that left leaning. Unfortunately the far right has to quantify everyone that's not 100% in line with them as a "lefty". Thank you Rush Limbaugh You've stated before that you don't want McCain to be President and don't want any republican to win this election. In the post I originally responded to you, you called McCain Bluefire's candidate. Implying that Obama is your candidate; did I infer that incorrectly? Perhaps I should have stated "Mike and those on the left" rather than Mike and others from the left. Either way, I'd expect anyone that doesn't want McCain AND wants Obama should be very happy with this pick as McCain "just threw away the election". Doesn't that lead to the outcome you'd prefer?
Chilly Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Gov. Palin's VP candidacy will have little direct impact as history shows that VP candidates do little to sway voters. No one votes for the better VP choice. They just don't. What it does do is it indirectly affects the campaign by changing the dialog, the tone, and the media coverage. McCain is simply betting that those changes will ultimately favor him. SDS speaks the truth. I don't think Palin or Biden are going to affect the race all that much
DrFishfinder Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 I only know she's the Gov. of Alaska. Before that mayor of a 7000 person town. I don't know jack about her. So she's the Gov. of a 7,198 person state, not including 488 grizzly bears and 12 moose? I know Jack Schitt....he lives in Alaska.
JK2000 Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 SDS speaks the truth. I don't think Palin or Biden are going to affect the race all that much I agree, Edwards couldn't help win NC, Lieberman couldn't help Gore win Florida, and Cheney appealed to nobody and Bush still won.
Fewell733 Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Have you ever paid attention to politics before? Either you don't or you are very young. Do you remember Bill Clinton's campaign promise - that he heavily promoted - that his cabinet would "look like America"? People vote the way they do for a variety of reasons. Most of those reasons are stupid. I know why they chose her, I just think it's painfully cynical, I didn't say it doesn't work. I was responding to someone implying that I was sexist for pointing out the obvious. why do you and the others arguing for the republicans see fit to insult posters that are trying to debate the merits, I didn't say anything to attack you?
finknottle Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 There's a difference between specific technical skills required by those professions and those required for effective public service. Even for highly technical jobs, very rarely does the job require the subject matter expertise of the person hired (ie, the contribution to the subject that earned them a PhD). In fact, close to never. You just want *a* Phd, not a PhD in 'left-handed upside down neutrino's and the quarks who love them.' You hire a PhD because their accomplishment shows that they can handle the life-style of the job: performing cutting-edge research in new areas, thinking through the implications, linking it to other areas, and so on. It's really all about experience - the actual subject matter exertise is that of a masters student. You don't atually need the PhD, it's just a good predictor.
DrFishfinder Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Have you ever paid attention to politics before? Either you don't or you are very young. Do you remember Bill Clinton's campaign promise - that he heavily promoted - that his cabinet would "look like America"? People vote the way they do for a variety of reasons. Most of those reasons are stupid. Boy, you got THAT right! Here in My Yami, people vote the way the newspapers tell them to vote. Profoundly pathetic.
John Adams Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Let's see, I supported Hillary but I'm sexist, and I support Obama but I'm racist. That makes alot of sense. It's a legitimate question to ask if a woman with 4 kids, one a baby with Down's Syndrome, can really devote the proper time and energy needed to take care of them AND be the leader of the free world. I'll be interested in hearing her response, as I'm sure it's a question other women will ask. They know better than most men how hard being the primary caregiver is. Do you have the same concerns re Obama and his young kids? What do you think busy mothers do every goddamn day you ignorant pig. They make plans and get through it.
Fewell733 Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Do you have the same concerns re Obama and his young kids? What do you think busy mothers do every goddamn day you ignorant pig. They make plans and get through it. you really should knock off the name calling. What is the point? Just point out how you disagree, it weakens your argument here which is a very valid one.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 Gotta hand it to the Republicans... Total eye candy MILF... "Trophy" VP in the utmost sense. Totally, NO Sarah, Plain and Tall.
ExiledInIllinois Posted August 29, 2008 Posted August 29, 2008 I think it is a great choice... McCain is 72... If he gets in and passes on... You will have a President that is 44 and has no experience. See... You really don't need experience to be the PoUS! WTF was all that Hillary and McCain blather about Obama being too young. This is the ultimate flip-flop by the Republicans... I agree, it is a great flip-flop, they finally wisened up!
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