Obama, timetables, and cut-and-run

[finknottle]

There was a nightline in 2004 that was never aired in which Obama appears to be against timetables in Iraq;

 

http://blogs.abcnews.com/politicalpunch/20...a-in-never.html

 

Obama continued, "All of us assume that when we make that commitment, that we have to finish the job, we owe it not only to the troops who sacrificed their lives, but also the Iraqi people. The question is, who can execute. Who has the credibility to gather its allies together and to make sure that they are willing to expand their political capital, domestically, to invest into Iraq, to send their own troops into Iraq, to pressure countries, like Iran, to deal with issues of proliferation?

:

Koppel asked, "But do you think that most the delegates on the floor really understand that President Kerry is not going to pursue a policy in Iraq that is essentially different from the one that George Bush is pursuing?"

 

"Oh, I think that they understand that," Obama said. "I think that they recognize that we cannot afford to simply cut and run in Iraq, and that we are in a difficult situation right now. And I think that what they are hoping for is somebody who is going to bring a thoughtfulness and a base of experience to decision-making in the White House, which John Kerry possesses, and I think that George Bush does not."

 

Koppel asked Obama, "Why can we not cut and run? When you freeze it that way, you determine the outcome. Why is it inappropriate to say, 'We’ll stay for another six months so that Iraq can take over their own affairs and their own defence and their own security, but in six months, we are pulling our troops out of there.'"

 

"Well, Ted, you have been there and I have not," said Obama. "I do not know whether or not we can accomplish that in six months. If we can, then I think John Kerry will bring our troops home. ...

 

"My assumption would be that if we could actually stabilize Iraq in such a way that you do not have warfare between the Sunnis the Shii’as and the Kurds, some semblance of law and order in that country, then I think that there is no doubt that the Kerry administration is going to be interested in bringing back the reservists and the National Guardsmen who are currently there, but --"

 

"If all of those things were true, Mr. Obama," Koppel interrupted, "I think it is also true that the Bush administration would bring the troops back."

 

"Absolutely," Obama said.

 

"Again, no difference between the two," Koppel said.

[KD in CA]

Change His Positions To Get Elected We Can Believe In!^TM

[swede316]

Nice...But why dosen't anyone bring these interviews up? I'd love to see this thrown at him in the debates. Will never happen but someone needs to ask the hard questions.

[PastaJoe]

Of course it was 4 years ago, and not many people thought we'd still be there in such numbers 4 years later. And no one has ever advocated a 'cut and run' policy, that's just a Repub spin line. Obama would have no trouble explaining it.

[swede316]

Obama would have no trouble explaining it.

I'd like to see him try.

[John Adams]

I think the timetable issue is not an issue any more. Iraq wants us out by 2010. Unless a candidate says that we're just going to move the troops over the border into Iran, the 2010 deadline took the wind out of this issue.

[HardyBoy]

A lot has changed in four years. With sound strategy perhaps we would be discussing pulling out 2 or 3 years ago. Basically they effed it up to the point that we are only able to discuss a reasonable pull out now.

 

If I have a cut, I put antibiotic ointement on it so that my own body can defend me, but if I am bleeding badly, or the cut gets infected, I need to stop the bleeding first, then take antibiotics to help my body.

 

If he gets bashed for this, his comeback could, and should, be that you were asking me to stop a gash with a bandaid and some neosporin.

[swede316]

Basically they effed it up to the point that we are only able to discuss a reasonable pull out now.

Huh? The war in Iraq is about over..We've won (almost)...Iraq is close to be being able to provide security for themselves and being a middle eastern democracy. We'll be out by 2011. Granted it's a shitstorm we shouldn't have jumped in but we did and it's a shitstorm we'll end up winning. Now let's finish Afganistan and send a mesage to the Putin's, Chavez's and Iranians.

[finknottle]

Of course it was 4 years ago, and not many people thought we'd still be there in such numbers 4 years later. And no one has ever advocated a 'cut and run' policy, that's just a Repub spin line. Obama would have no trouble explaining it.

 

No, that's revisionist. Recall the early Democratic debates, with a divide opening up between a side led by Obama and Richardson arguing for a unilateral time-table leading to complete withdrawl, and a side led by Clinton arguing for no fixed public timetable and some residual forces. Biden was with Obama, but argued for an orderly dismemberment of the country into three parts on the way out.

 

'Cut and run' (an inflammatory way of putting it) was clearly what the Obama camp was arguing for in 2007/early 08: an immedate timetable, full withdrawl, no ifs-and-or buts depending on the situation on the ground.

[HardyBoy]

Huh? The war in Iraq is about over..We've won (almost)...Iraq is close to be being able to provide security for themselves and being a middle eastern democracy. We'll be out by 2011. Granted it's a shitstorm we shouldn't have jumped in but we did and it's a shitstorm we'll end up winning. Now let's finish Afganistan and send a mesage to the Putin's, Chavez's and Iranians.

 

The contigency planning was atrocious. We started a civil war that never should have started in the first place. The war should have been over in months, it has lasted years. If it was conducted properly, we would not be sitting here discussing how terrible the whole idea was in the first place. THEY SENT IN TROOPS WITHOUT PROPERLY ARMORED VEHICLES! Doesn't take a genious to realize that the insurgents would use roadside bombs to deter transportation.....oooh wait they didn't think there would be any insurgents....a total shitstorm, I agree...One of our own making.

[finknottle]

The contigency planning was atrocious. We started a civil war that never should have started in the first place. The war should have been over in months, it has lasted years. If it was conducted properly, we would not be sitting here discussing how terrible the whole idea was in the first place. THEY SENT IN TROOPS WITHOUT PROPERLY ARMORED VEHICLES! Doesn't take a genious to realize that the insurgents would use roadside bombs to deter transportation.....oooh wait they didn't think there would be any insurgents....a total shitstorm, I agree...One of our own making.

 

And in the end, pointing to the blunders of fools before you doesn't help your judgement in the here and now.

 

Maybe the chaos in 2005/6/7 was all directly Bush's fault - fine. I'll buy that.

 

But Obama and McCain looked a the same situation and came up with starkly different assesments. Obama wanted a public timetable for a full withdrawl beginning immediately. McCain wanted no public timetable for US action, and a build up of troops to restore order until the Iraqi's can get on their feet.

[HardyBoy]

And in the end, pointing to the blunders of fools before you doesn't help your judgement in the here and now.

 

Maybe the chaos in 2005/6/7 was all directly Bush's fault - fine. I'll buy that.

 

But Obama and McCain looked a the same situation and came up with starkly different assesments. Obama wanted a public timetable for a full withdrawl beginning immediately. McCain wanted no public timetable for US action, and a build up of troops to restore order until the Iraqi's can get on their feet.

 

Keep in mind though that if you forget what happend in the past your bound to repeat it.

 

Perhaps the Iraqis are already on their feet, and just need to be given the autonomy to sink or swim. I don't know, but I am hoping that Obama has done analysis of the situation, and he thinks the Iraqis are ready, otherwise I agree the Iraqis will sink.

[PastaJoe]

Huh? The war in Iraq is about over..We've won (almost)...

 

The war was over after Saddam was defeated and captured. Everything after that has been an occupation.

 

 

No, that's revisionist. Recall the early Democratic debates, with a divide opening up between a side led by Obama and Richardson arguing for a unilateral time-table leading to complete withdrawl, and a side led by Clinton arguing for no fixed public timetable and some residual forces. Biden was with Obama, but argued for an orderly dismemberment of the country into three parts on the way out.

 

'Cut and run' (an inflammatory way of putting it) was clearly what the Obama camp was arguing for in 2007/early 08: an immedate timetable, full withdrawl, no ifs-and-or buts depending on the situation on the ground.

 

It was not 'cut and run', which gave the impression that we would pack up and be gone in a month. The timetable was the carrot and stick to force the Iraqis to get off their butts and make some decisions and reconcile. And Biden's plan may eventually end up what happens anyways after we leave. Ethnic groups want their own autonomy. Look at the break-away regions in Georgia. People would rather be the big fish in a smaller pond.

[finknottle]

The war was over after Saddam was defeated and captured. Everything after that has been an occupation.

 

 

 

 

It was not 'cut and run', which gave the impression that we would pack up and be gone in a month. The timetable was the carrot and stick to force the Iraqis to get off their butts and make some decisions and reconcile. And Biden's plan may eventually end up what happens anyways after we leave. Ethnic groups want their own autonomy. Look at the break-away regions in Georgia. People would rather be the big fish in a smaller pond.

 

No, it was not a carrot-and-stick. That suggests that the timetable of our leaving would be contingent on their actions, which was decidely *not* Obama's position, nor the position of most of the candidates. It was to be unilateral. The only argument during the debates was over how fast you could physically do it - Richardson claimed something absurd like 3 months, all others said a year or 18 months... I don't remember the length Obama pledged.

 

Biden's plan seems more unlikely every day, though it could still happen. In troubled regions, people want autonomy when they don't trust the government to protect their lives - it's not about freedom to have cultural fairs and crap like that. With reduced violence and signs of impartiality by the government, there is much less pressure today (except in the north where Kurdish aspirations run longer and deeper).