I'd like your opinion

[Lori]

And to make one thing clear ... my point in all this is not about the Bills and their viability.

 

My point is that your local newspapers are giving you less and less as time goes on and unless you demand more they'll continue to cut back.

Tim, I'm glad you started this discussion ... but do you really think Sam Zell and Lean Dean Singleton are listening to their readers? They should be, but are they?

 

First, a programming note: if you plan on trying to have a serious discussion with ESPN.com commenters, well, good luck with that. We try to maintain at least some guidelines for posting on TSW. There? It's "Lord of the Flies." And unless you feel like spending your days moderating your own comments section instead of actually, you know, breaking news and writing stories ...

 

And "Toronto" has become a trigger word to Bills Nation. Not surprised it drew an (over)reaction.

 

Now, to your original point. Buffalo first. Obviously, we knew Sully was otherwise occupied, but I was surprised to see that Allen Wilson apparently didn't make the trip. Looks like he hasn't written since they broke camp? That's strange. But at least Mark was there.

 

I was flat-out shocked to see that Sal Maiorana didn't go ... until I started thinking about it. The D&C is a Gannett shop, and it's unfrickinbelievable what's happening in that chain these days. (Congrats to CEO Craig Dubow for raking in $7.5 million last year, while the company's stock price has crashed from $75.31 to $17.67 since he took over in May 2005. Nice job.) Did I mention that the new Gannett Web sites suck? Yeah, I think I have, once or thrice.

 

Rochester has had it pretty good with both Sal and Leo covering the team, but honestly, I'm not sure we can expect that to continue much longer. Hope I'm wrong, for their sake as well as ours.

 

And nobody else is going to make a 10-hour trip for a preseason game, especially when it's also football tab time.

 

Vic Carucci/Milt Northrup/Larry Felser or Mark Gaughan/Allen Wilson/Jerry Sullivan? There's some large boots to fill, and for whatever reason, they are not. I guess my feeling is that the first trio were reporters first, commentators second, and radio talk show personalities occasionally. Jerry Sullivan just seems to look for something controversial to write about. Larry always seemed to be fair imho. It gets wearying after a while. The other guys are mostly fine, but they are lumped in with the editorial staff.

 

PS- I actively look for Chuck Pollock's stuff. He most reminds me of what I used to get with the News.

Chuck has two advantages over the metros: time and distance. Because the Times Herald is a p.m., he doesn't have to pound out his game stories on a tight deadline. And because he's at a relatively small newspaper 70 miles away, the coaches and players probably aren't searching out his work. That allows him to inject some opinion -- which is something beat writers are normally supposed to leave to the paper's columnist, but Chuck handles both jobs for the TH. Here's how he described his style to me: "I see my role, especially on Monday afternoon after Sunday games, as both analyst and critic. By then, people know the nuts and bolts of what happened and want to know why it happened and what I think. I don't mean that they thirst for my specific input, but rather just to verify that a journalist's impressions mirror their own."

 

And yeah, he's damn good at what he does, something I believed a long time before I ever met him.

 

Whites Bay:

But I'm just like any other fan, watching games from the stands or the couch -- and depending on the guys who DO have credentials for their first-hand reporting and writing. That's one thing the subsection of the blogging community which celebrates the demise of print journalism keeps forgetting. Former San Bernadino Sun SE/columnist Paul Oberjuerge, who covered his thirteenth Olympics as a freelancer after San Berdoo chopped him off their payroll back in March, talks about the print holocaust on his blog:

Ultimately, this should matter to American readers. To American news consumers of all sorts.

 

Even four years ago, you had dozens of sources of news for big events like the Olympics. You could compare the New York Times story to the Atlanta story to the Seattle story, the Dallas, Orlando, Philly and, yes, the Riverside and L.A. Daily News stories, too.

 

Now, it’s a handful of sources. Instead of every athlete being chased by at least two or three reporters, it might be one. It might be none.

 

A final melancholy note about tonight: Beijing organizers set up an interview room here at the track stadium that has no fewer than 240 seats in it and the ability to generate translations in two languages.

 

However, for the press conference for the women’s 200 meters … fewer than a dozen reporters were in the room. Four years ago, eight years ago, there would have been 100 reporters in that room, and at least 20 or 30 Americans.

 

Now, there were a handful, and the Beijing organizers seemed embarrassed for the athletes that the room was so empty. (Later in the night, they had volunteers go through the work room, asking reporters if they would like to go see the press conference for the 110-meter hurdles medalists.)

 

Bottom line: Your news sources are drying up. You believe you’re drowning in information, and you are. But it’s of a lesser quality, and it’s coming from fewer primary sources. If those relative handful of reporters don’t get it right … well, nobody will be there to backstop them.

 

This is not a good thing for consumers and, when it pertains to topics bigger than sports, not good for the country or the world.

 

As far as the change in print coverage, time to put away your buggy whip Clark Kent. Lifestyle changes and Al Gore's incredible invention have changed the way people access information. At one point in time, journalists had newspapers and magazines as their sole outlet for their talents. Lifestyles have changed as well.

With the multitude of TV outlets (local as well as cable-style channels), internet, etc., that local newspaper talent pool has been thinned out at the same time competition has increased.

Unfortunately, that part isn't true. There have been over 8,000 layoffs in newsrooms across the country since Jan 1. Lot of talented writers out there looking for work right now, or getting discouraged and leaving the business entirely -- and a lot more who are currently employed, but fear every phone call from the HR department. It's a buyer's market, and the veterans with all the sources and institutional knowledge are being shoved out the door in favor of fresh-out-of-J-school kids who are willing to work cheap. (Unfortunately, that management style isn't confined to the newspaper industry ...)

Working people in America just don't have time to sit at the breakfast table and read their morning paper front to back as they did in the days when June was serving coffee and getting Wally and Beaver off to school. They're no longer sitting fireside with the evening paper at 6:30 after consuming a roast, peas, and potatoes. They're still trying to get home from work so they can rush the kids off to some organized activity and cruise through the Mickey D's drive-through.

 

Before you start getting too high and mighty about the poor Buffalo News coverage, take a look a little closer to home. Start with your employer, ESPN. My god, watching Sportscenter is like babysitting a kid with ADD. If I want to hear the NFL news, I have to sit through 45 minutes of other crap as NFL info is fed piecemeal in 20 second increments throughout the telecast. No continuity in the formatting. And that World Series of Poker - who couldn't get excited about that?

 

Thanks a lot Al Gore, you bastard.

The rest, I can't disagree with. I like what ESPN.com is doing, bringing in beat writers to improve their product. But except for Outside The Lines, the mothership is a steady dose of short-attention-span theater.

 

To get back to Tim's original question, this isn't just a Buffalo problem. Remember how Hartford was going to be the Patriots*' new home? Can you imagine how many season-ticket holders live there? Well, from the looks of their Web site, the Courant isn't even staffing the team any more. It's all about UConn and preps, and picking up Pats* stuff off the wire. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution -- once one of the best sports sections in the country, with Van McKenzie running the show and guys like Chris Mortensen kicking ass on their beats -- just gutted the sports department. Steve Wyche was the only full-timer on the Falcons, and he ***BREAKING NEWS*** reportedly just bailed out to go to the NFL Network. Will the last guy out of the newsroom please turn off the lights?

 

And if sports journalism ever becomes the sole provenance of broadcast media and team-supplied information, fans everywhere will be poorer for it.

 

Late add: LongLiveRalph, great post.

[Kelly the Dog]

It's a sad state of affairs, then.

 

Football (or any other sports/entertainment option, for that matter) used to be a much more enjoyable passtime when it wasn't a 24/7 media feeding frenzy. I suppose I'll get flamed, but I don't need to read 10-11 versions of a post game report or 5-6 pregame buildup stories per day to be a 'with it' NFL fan. The three hours on Sunday are the 'product'...not the hype machine remora that feeds on it.

 

I realize the NFL's become the 'go to' partner for advertising cross-sales promotions for the 18-54 male demographic. But if it keeps going down this media rabbit hole, it runs the risk of becoming just another network television/Internet turnoff...sort of like MLB.

This is not an attack on you, as I consider you to be an excellent poster here. But I really have to disagree with this. I just don't think people are willing to take the bad with the good, and just do a little bit of weeding out the crap themselves. I wouldn't trade what is available to me right now about The Bills, and the NFL, and sports in particular and news in general for any time ever. It's not even close. Sure, the actual "sportswriting" is worse per capita, but the advantages outweigh the disadvantages by 100-1 over the old model.

 

TBD is one of the greatest inventions ever. The discussion of The Bills and the NFL on TSW has taught me and informed me and engaged me and entertained me 100x more than the few Bills beat writers one article a day if we're lucky used to do.

 

The availability of it on my time, from my home or my laptop or iphone is extraordinary.

 

The ability to google stats and games and stories from 1-5-10-20 years back is extraordinary.

 

The ability to watch highlights of games or players or get combine results is amazing. Or to get interviews of Bills players on bills.com right after practice or the draft or the games is fabulous.

 

To be able to live in a city like LA and still get the Bills radio station online, however sucky it is, is awesome.

 

ESPN, however much people badmouth it, is FABULOUS compared to the sports coverage that we got 30 and 20 and 10 and even 5 years ago.

 

But you often have to lose some things to gain a lot of things, and the nostalgia for "the good ol' days", at least to me, is usually not really what the person wants. Because today is much, much, much better all around. You just have to weigh the bad with the good.

 

You may feel differently, as again, I wasn't really directing this to you.

[Taro T]

Tim, I'm glad you started this discussion ... but do you really think Sam Zell and Lean Dean Singleton are listening to their readers? They should be, but are they?

 

First, a programming note: if you plan on trying to have a serious discussion with ESPN.com commenters, well, good luck with that. We try to maintain at least some guidelines for posting on TSW. There? It's "Lord of the Flies." And unless you feel like spending your days moderating your own comments section instead of actually, you know, breaking news and writing stories ...

 

And "Toronto" has become a trigger word to Bills Nation. Not surprised it drew an (over)reaction.

 

Now, to your original point. Buffalo first. Obviously, we knew Sully was otherwise occupied, but I was surprised to see that Allen Wilson apparently didn't make the trip. Looks like he hasn't written since they broke camp? That's strange. But at least Mark was there.

 

I was flat-out shocked to see that Sal Maiorana didn't go ... until I started thinking about it. The D&C is a Gannett shop, and it's unfrickinbelievable what's happening in that chain these days. (Congrats to CEO Craig Dubow for raking in $7.5 million last year, while the company's stock price has crashed from $75.31 to $17.67 since he took over in May 2005. Nice job.) Did I mention that the new Gannett Web sites suck? Yeah, I think I have, once or thrice.

 

Rochester has had it pretty good with both Sal and Leo covering the team, but honestly, I'm not sure we can expect that to continue much longer. Hope I'm wrong, for their sake as well as ours.

 

And nobody else is going to make a 10-hour trip for a preseason game, especially when it's also football tab time.

 

 

Chuck has two advantages over the metros: time and distance. Because the Times Herald is a p.m., he doesn't have to pound out his game stories on a tight deadline. And because he's at a relatively small newspaper 70 miles away, the coaches and players probably aren't searching out his work. That allows him to inject some opinion -- which is something beat writers are normally supposed to leave to the paper's columnist, but Chuck handles both jobs for the TH. Here's how he described his style to me: "I see my role, especially on Monday afternoon after Sunday games, as both analyst and critic. By then, people know the nuts and bolts of what happened and want to know why it happened and what I think. I don't mean that they thirst for my specific input, but rather just to verify that a journalist's impressions mirror their own."

 

And yeah, he's damn good at what he does, something I believed a long time before I ever met him.

 

Whites Bay:

But I'm just like any other fan, watching games from the stands or the couch -- and depending on the guys who DO have credentials for their first-hand reporting and writing. That's one thing the subsection of the blogging community which celebrates the demise of print journalism keeps forgetting. Former San Bernadino Sun SE/columnist Paul Oberjuerge, who covered his thirteenth Olympics as a freelancer after San Berdoo chopped him off their payroll back in March, talks about the print holocaust on his blog:

 

 

 

Unfortunately, that part isn't true. There have been over 8,000 layoffs in newsrooms across the country since Jan 1. Lot of talented writers out there looking for work right now, or getting discouraged and leaving the business entirely -- and a lot more who are currently employed, but fear every phone call from the HR department. It's a buyer's market, and the veterans with all the sources and institutional knowledge are being shoved out the door in favor of fresh-out-of-J-school kids who are willing to work cheap. (Unfortunately, that management style isn't confined to the newspaper industry ...)

 

The rest, I can't disagree with. I like what ESPN.com is doing, bringing in beat writers to improve their product. But except for Outside The Lines, the mothership is a steady dose of short-attention-span theater.

 

To get back to Tim's original question, this isn't just a Buffalo problem. Remember how Hartford was going to be the Patriots*' new home? Can you imagine how many season-ticket holders live there? Well, from the looks of their Web site, the Courant isn't even staffing the team any more. It's all about UConn and preps, and picking up Pats* stuff off the wire. The Atlanta Journal-Constitution -- once one of the best sports sections in the country, with Van McKenzie running the show and guys like Chris Mortensen kicking ass on their beats -- just gutted the sports department. Steve Wyche was the only full-timer on the Falcons, and he ***BREAKING NEWS*** reportedly just bailed out to go to the NFL Network. Will the last guy out of the newsroom please turn off the lights?

 

And if sports journalism ever becomes the sole provenance of broadcast media and team-supplied information, fans everywhere will be poorer for it.

 

Late add: LongLiveRalph, great post.

Lori, excellent post. (Gee, there's a surprise.)

 

And a thanks to Tim for starting this discussion. (Who'd've thunk it? There is still room on this board for legitimate discussions. )

 

My concern in Tim's posts, and one which I hope he will come back and expound upon / clarify is what he meant by (paraphrasing here) "the NFL is taking note of the size of the local media presence"?

 

There have been several legitimate reasons given for why the WNY print media presence was small at this game (although it does appear that, as has been addressed, Tim overlooked your favorite Chuck Pollock). I see several legitimate reasons for the Toronto media to step up their NFL coverage including: it's the glamour sport in the US, and if Canada has a glamour city, TO is definitely it; they have had little to no 1st hand coverage of the NFL in the past; it probably is cheaper to cover a 5 month / year sport that only plays once / week rather than 7 month / year sports that play every day if they are looking to cut production costs. None of these reasons has anything to do with a diminished following of the Bills in WNY. They, for the most part, deal with the economics of running a printed newspaper.

 

I am troubled that the NFL would be bringing this into their determination on whether to support a small market's viability in anything more than a cursory manner. As you mentioned, this trimming back of expenses at newspapers is not limited to WNY, nor is it limited to small markets. E.g., NYC papers have trimmed back on their reporters' travel to cover other sports as well.

 

I haven't been one of the ones overly worried that the Bills will pack up and find the nearest Mayflower when Ralph passes on. Comments such as Tim's do make me a slight bit more nervous. Which again, is why I'd really like to read an expansion of Mr. Graham's thoughts on that.

[BillsFan-4-Ever]

I also have to say that there were zero blogs on the game as of 11 a.m. this morning. The Rochester D&C used an Associated Press report, which remains the lead story on the D&C site as I write this early Tuesday.

 

I have been wondering why so little has been written myself.

 

The Rochester D&C has turned into a shambles. Their reporting if you want to call it hat is pure plagiarism. These guys use the wire service, copy and paste and change a sentance or two. Sal Maiorana is very guilty of that offense.

 

You know if Lynch has another DUI you can get 3 or 4 daily columns out of it that will last weeks.

 

Am I being too harsh on the D&C?

[Lori]

Taro, Chuck didn't go to this game. With his sportswriting class at SBU starting today and the TH's Football Edition hitting the stands later this week, not to mention putting out a paper every day, I figured he wouldn't. (In fact, I was a little surprised he made it to Toronto, even though it was technically a "home" game.)

 

Tim mentioned that fact in one of his responses on his blog -- Chuck's column in Monday's paper was written after watching the game at home. He does the same thing for West Coast trips during the regular season; much as he'd like to cover every road game, it just doesn't make financial sense.

 

Honestly? I doubt the NFL would take column inches of coverage into account when judging a franchise's sustainability in its market. At the very least, it would be far, far down the list from gate receipts and marketing issues. I also agree with several previous posts -- several factors (Olympics, late game, long trip) combined to make coverage of this game extraordinarily light. I fully expect to see three writers from the News and two from the D&C at all regular-season road games.

[Lori]

I have been wondering why so little has been written myself.

 

The Rochester D&C has turned into a shambles. Their reporting if you want to call it hat is pure plagiarism. These guys use the wire service, copy and paste and change a sentance or two. Sal Maiorana is very guilty of that offense.

 

You know if Lynch has another DUI you can get 3 or 4 daily columns out of it that will last weeks.

 

Am I being too harsh on the D&C?

If you're accusing Maiorana (or anyone else in that newsroom) of plagiarism, you'd damn well better be prepared to show some proof. Otherwise, your post is libelous.

[Lurker]

To be able to live in a city like LA and still get the Bills radio station online, however sucky it is, is awesome.

KFBD, I suppose from your perspective on the left coast--well away from the OBD crucible--the rise of 24/7 media access is a good thing. My brother in Orlando feels the same way.

 

But access is different than content, IMO. What passes for team coverage these days is simply white noise, regardless of the outlet or whether I can view it in my underwear at 3:00 am on my PC. Maybe my outlook's simply colored by still living in Buffalo, where interest in all things Bills-related remains a daily staple, much like Duffs wings, Schwabl's beef on weck, Ted's hot dogs....humm, must be lunch time.

 

Interesting thread. Too bad there are so few of them anymore...

[SouthernMan]

The Atlanta Journal-Constitution -- once one of the best sports sections in the country, with Van McKenzie running the show and guys like Chris Mortensen kicking ass on their beats -- just gutted the sports department. Steve Wyche was the only full-timer on the Falcons, and he ***BREAKING NEWS*** reportedly just bailed out to go to the NFL Network. Will the last guy out of the newsroom please turn off the lights?

 

 

Atlanta Journal and good Sports section in the same sentence?

I've lived here for over 20 years and don't remember ever seeing a sports section that could compare to a good New York or other northern paper. NFL news was practically absent with the exception of Falcons features and updates, which was typically stuck on page 2 behind any SEC/UGA topics.

 

And hockey? Fahget about it.

 

The Atlanta Journal & Contitution is commonly referred to in these parts as the Urinal & Constipation. They don't even attempt to mask their far left bias in their reporting and opinions.

 

A funny aside and observation I need to mention:

I think Buffalonians are married to their damn newspaper like nowhere else. It's amusing to me how WNYers still carry on the tradition of their daily delivery AND often get USA Today as well. Always looking in their local print media for that ray of hope that Adelphia, Bass Pro Shop, or some other savior is going to swoop in and revive the economy. Ah, the excitement generated when some company hires 75 new workers! They love their quaint little local yocal smalltown flavor. Who wouldn't? I guess it's easier to sit at the Cleaver breakfast table and read the whole thing back to front when there's no job to go to.

 

I have to think real hard to come up with anyone around here (in ATL) that gets daily home delivery. The paper has to have regular subscription drives just to get people to have the Sunday paper delivered. I doubt that anyone outside of some avid news junkie gets the USA Today paper delivered to their homes in the Metro Atlanta area.

 

 

BTW - great thread. We need more of these.

We now return to our regularly scheduled Jason Peters or Bills' uniforms discussion?

[dib]

I'd love more coverage, here in Habana Norte if the sport doesnt involve a South Florida team it just doesnt get mentioned.

[Lori]

Dave, you realize the AJC I'm talking about hasn't existed since the late 1980s (before McKenzie left to start The National with Frank Deford, taking Mort with him), right?

[KD in CA]

Dave, you realize the AJC I'm talking about hasn't existed since the late 1980s (before McKenzie left to start The National with Frank Deford, taking Mort with him), right?

 

 

Wow...that's a blast from the past.

 

 

I loved the National. Still have the inaugural issue (NY edition) with Patrick Ewing on the cover.

[Lori]

Wow...that's a blast from the past.

 

 

I loved the National. Still have the inaugural issue (NY edition) with Patrick Ewing on the cover.

Great idea. Outstanding stable of writers. Horrid business model. Still miss it. Met Deford at Chautauqua back in June, but just long enough to get a handshake and a signed book. Wish I'd had a chance to chat with him about the paper ...

 

[/threadjack]

[OCinBuffalo]

First off, thanks for doing the blogs. I know I'm not alone when I say we are looking forward to your work, because it has the potential to be worth our time, and we might actually learn something. If that is the case, you will enjoy huge support from us. This is a looooong post, but you asked for opinions and mine is multifaceted.

 

I know Sullivan is still in China, because WGR interviewed him there yesterday. So that's his excuse. It was a late game, followed by a day off, etc., is probably the other excuse.

 

I also know that WGR has a clear and consistent bias against the Bills thanks to Mike Schopp(I really couldn't care less how he spells his name). He also blatantly confirmed that bias again, yesterday. The only reason I was listening was to see if there was an update on Langston Walker, they usually get those kinds of things first. The other guys at WGR are ok, but it's beyond obvious that they have been influenced by this lame attempt to deemphasize the Bills in favor of the Sabres. So, there's rarely anything useful or interesting coming from WGR, unless you are talking about FA signings at 1 in the morning, or similar factoids. Hardly any media outlet, ESPN included, is actually doing useful analysis anymore. In fact, the only guy worth listening to is Ron Jaworski, because he actually watches the games, and does real analysis.

 

Remember that? We used to get it from the print media all the time. And I am not referring to KC Joyner's inability to do proper statistical analysis. Reading what that guy writes is hysterical, watching him struggle with basic stats concepts provides me with a ton of entertainment, but I don't learn anything about football.

 

The simple fact is: We have to come here to get what we want, because few in the media are doing their job properly. There are a hell of a lot of people here who know the game, spend serious time on their posts, watch hours of film, and actually bring a ton of insight, because they bring their real job skills and/or real life experiences to bear. Examples: if there is a new offensive set or package, then those of us who know the game discuss it in detail, if there is an injury we have 10 physicians telling us what it means. If there is a contract issue, same thing with lawyers. If we have a need for sound statistical analysis, this guy named Dibs shows up and kills it. There are many, many more, and Lori is better than 90% of the reporters out there. You just have to know who they are, and ignore the nonsense. Hell, I even did a live training camp report the first couple of days using my smartphone. IMO, it was marginal, but next year I plan to do a much better job, because I enjoy it. I will do it because I can, because I always feel like I "owe" for getting all this good info here, and a live report is what I always wanted when I was an out-of-state Bills fan. Sorry if it pisses reporters off, but we are simply doing what we want. If you guys did what we want, we wouldn't have to, and we might even pay you for it.

 

There is a huge upside to having more than one voice, as there is in the paper, discussing a particular aspect of the game. I guarantee that the average TSW poster knows more than they knew when they first got here, and I also guarantee that they know more about football, the NFL, and certainly the Bills than the average reporter, and certainly more than most of the "analysts" on TV. How do I know? Because the reporters come here to learn things themselves. Clumping Platelets' salary cap analysis has been used by reporters on multiple occasions. And it's not just local guys, I know for a fact that others come here as well.

 

Why do I need to read what some reporter has to say when I can get a much better analysis here, and chances are that all I'm going to get from said reporter is a regurgitation of what's here anyway, regardless of what city paper that reporter works for? Chris Brown is the only reporter that we tend to respect, but we know that he's on a bit of leash. You think reporters in Toronto will know more about the Bills than we do here? Ever?

My opinion is therefore: we don't care, so why should you? You'd better get your own house at ESPN in order before you worry about others. We want what we want, and if you guys don't give it to us, we get it ourselves. I'm not sure, but it seems you/they can't compete with us, not because we are better individually, but because we are better as a team, and there are 100s of good posters here, not 1 or 2 guys. You should see what draft time is like around here. Besides, anything you guys do well is co-opted and linked here within minutes. It will be discussed, and 50-100 posts later it's value will be determined, and it's info assimilated, thereby rendering any need to buy a paper useless.

 

We only get the basic facts from the media, and rarely pay attention to their analysis, because it's almost always wrong. Example: Miami Dolphins picked to go to the SB two years ago, and then picked to be #2 in the division last year. Idiotic. Do you really think I'm going to sign up for ESPN Insider for that, or Mel Kiper, or any of it? All it took was some basic analysis of their secondary and O line, and the fact that they had no QB. The film that proved they were a joke is readily available on the NFL Network site. Moronic projections like that are why we say ESPN has a big market bias. Why in the hell else do you keep saying that the Jets, Dolphins, Cardinals, 49ers, Texans and Raiders are going to be good every year, for the last 5, when they have all blatantly sucked, but you ignore teams like the Jags, Packers and Chargers?(notice how I leave my team out? it's called being objective )

 

The fact is that the media needs to change it's business model and/or get it's ex-player "analysts" in the film room. I see something along the lines of facilitating discussion, by a guy who knows the game, has proper communication skills, and some sense of analytical ability, being much more well received than a "the (insert NFL team here) training camp report, complete with interviews of athletes spewing cliches". You guys are missing the point and seem enamored with the players and your access to them more than you should be. No matter how much the athletes think of themselves, we still root for what's on the helmet much more than the back of the jersey, and we want to see teamwork and execution much more than we care what TO or Brett Favre has to say. You guys don't seem to get that, and you make the mistake of getting caught up in the National Enquirer model, rather than elevating your reporting to get us the real story, like SI used to do.

 

Perhaps the popularity of Fantasy has made you guys forget that the vast majority of people in this country can do more than one thing at a time? In this case, root for their fantasy team and their real team, at the same time? Perhaps it's time to speak to the majority instead of the lowest common denominator If you haven't noticed, those folks can't afford to buy tickets to games anymore anyway. This started by letting Terry Bradshaw be on TV. It ends with all of us watching games using internet feeds with the volume off and a chat room going. Unless you guys stop dumbing down your coverage to Terry and Marshall Faulk's level, that is precisely what will happen.

[Lurker]

You guys are missing the point and seem enamored with the players and your access to them more than you should be.

IMO, the enamorment with players, rather than the game, comes straight from a media consultant's playbook. Unfortunately, it's the Hollywood/LA-celebritization playbook rather than the true sports fan playbook.

 

The NFL (and by extension, their media surrogates) know they've got the rabid fan by the balls (sorry Lori!) and take them for granted. It's the pursuit of marginal new customers/advertising targets--whether ADD-afflicted band wagon chasers or new, un-charted demographics (like the great white north croud)--that causes the bar to be dropped insanely low.

 

Oh, as to some of your other comments...you were talking about circa 2008 TSW, right???

(just kidding...very nice post)

[OCinBuffalo]

IMO, the enamorment with players, rather than the game, comes straight from a media consultant's playbook. Unfortunately, it's the Hollywood/LA-celebritization playbook rather than the true sports fan playbook.

 

The NFL (and by extension, their media surrogates) know they've got the rabid fan by the balls (sorry Lori!) and take them for granted. It's the pursuit of marginal new customers/advertising targets--whether ADD-afflicted band wagon chasers or new, un-charted demographics (like the great white north croud)--that causes the bar to be dropped insanely low.

 

Oh, as to some of your other comments...you were talking about circa 2008 TSW, right???

(just kidding...very nice post)

That, unfortunately, makes sense. And yes, things have gone down in some areas(endless O line/D line debate) and gotten better in others(pre-draft player analysis). The point is: things will get better. They will because of the nature of this media, guys like you will ensure it sooner or later, by posting what you have been posting lately = "hey a holes, lets pick it up, this is boring and stupid."

 

On the flip side, what are the chances of things getting better at ESPN any time soon? Who gets better first? Who's going to do a better job analyzing the Bills, the AFC East, AFC or NFL this season? My money's on TSW.

[Lori]

That, unfortunately, makes sense. And yes, things have gone down in some areas(endless O line/D line debate) and gotten better in others(pre-draft player analysis). The point is: things will get better. They will because of the nature of this media, guys like you will ensure it sooner or later, by posting what you have been posting lately = "hey a holes, lets pick it up, this is boring and stupid."

 

On the flip side, what are the chances of things getting better at ESPN any time soon? Who gets better first? Who's going to do a better job analyzing the Bills, the AFC East, AFC or NFL this season? My money's on TSW.

To be honest? ESPN's made a ton of recent moves designed to improve their product. Not talking about the broadcasting wing, or throwing all that money at Rick Reilly. The .com is currently on a spending binge, bringing in good writers -- and even deskers, and damn, did they need some good editors -- from all over the country. Brian Bennett (formerly of the Louisville C-J) was a huge get for their Big East coverage. Ditto Pierre LeBrun for hockey.

 

Not saying your point isn't valid, but they are making the effort.

[bills44]

Please tell me I haven't totally misread Buffalo after spending eight years there. You really do want more coverage, right?

 

http://myespn.go.com/blogs/afceast/0-2-133....html?post=true

 

I want more coverage, but only if said coverage is insightful (see: Gaughan, Harrington, Vogl, and for the most part, Wilson). As far as the same sh-t, different day-types such as Sullivan and Gleason, they're of little to no use, IMO.

[OCinBuffalo]

To be honest? ESPN's made a ton of recent moves designed to improve their product. Not talking about the broadcasting wing, or throwing all that money at Rick Reilly. The .com is currently on a spending binge, bringing in good writers -- and even deskers, and damn, did they need some good editors -- from all over the country. Brian Bennett (formerly of the Louisville C-J) was a huge get for their Big East coverage. Ditto Pierre LeBrun for hockey.

 

Not saying your point isn't valid, but they are making the effort.

Thank you Lori, for proving my earlier point. I guarantee we would never know that, especially not in the detail you have laid out. Just one more example of the "big team" that is TSW. Still not sure how ESPN's online presence competes with this kind of post, or the other stuff people routinely do here.

 

I don't claim to be a media expert, but I am re: Internet business models. I don't see how ESPN isn't trying to move everything they have into content(as they seem to be, based on what you posted), the $$$ is there all day. Insider is a stupid, flailing attempt, and has already been eclipsed by sites like this one, Football Outsiders, etc. Traffic is king, followed by targeted marketing campaigns. If they did a simple login with some basic demographics, they could triple their ad revenue by targeting ads and tailoring campaigns. Perhaps they thought that's what they were getting with Insider? Whoever told them that was the way to go doesn't know the job. You don't expand your market by limiting content, you do the exact opposite, unless your market won't expand further. It's like being happy getting a nickel-->Insider, when you could get a dollar-->WebMd.

 

In all cases, content = traffic. And posting nonsense content just kills you/puts you in ad contract hell. So yeah, based on what I have seen from them, they better invest in some content people. Perhaps our new friend Tim here is an example of that effort.

[BuffaloBilliever]

Pretty shocked on this end, even on NFL.com when the game ended old stories were piled up above the "Bills spoil home opener" story. My uncle is in the newspaper business and said that sports writers are becoming too numerous and too biased, therefore causing as you said huge layoffs in editorial positions and moreover just bland AP approaches giving details, but no in depth studies of the game or thoughts.

 

Any column or press coverage the Bills can get raises my spirits and I'm pretty sure everyone's on this board. If you ever need someone to make a cheap blog, I'm your man

[KnightRider]

To be honest? ESPN's made a ton of recent moves designed to improve their product.

 

Not saying your point isn't valid, but they are making the effort.

 

I honestly hadn't noticed until reading Tim's column on Peters, today. Tim, you told me something new in that column WRT the other agents disapproval of the hold-out. I started to add the comment "Tim Graham may just make me a regular visitor to ESPN.com, again." at the bottom, but when it asked for a registration, I said no thanks.