EndZoneCrew Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 1999 Buffalo Bills I remember when we had the horses in the middle (ie Washington/P. Williams) and we had one of the stoutest run defenses in the NFL. Lets compare the contributors of that defense to our 2008 version and see how they fare. Sam Cowart - Paul Pozluzny Donovan Greer - Jabari Greer Sean Moran - Spencer Johnson Gabe Northern - Kavika Mitchell Marlo Perry - John DiGiorgio Sam Rogers -Angelo Crowell Kurt Schulz - Ko Simpson Bruce Smith - Aaron Schobel Thomas Smith - Terrence Mcgee Ted Washington - Marcus Stroud Marcellus Wiley - Ryan Denney Pat Williams - John McCargo Antoine Winfield - Leodis Mcelvin Shawn Price - Kyle Williams Phil Hansen - Chris Kelsey Henry Jones - Donte Whitner How would you compare them??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 that '99 defense really points to how important the D-line is. I'd say we're now better in most of the back 7, but then we get blow away up front. Also, what did we do playing a 3-4 with Williams and Washington? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cody Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Also, what did we do playing a 3-4 with Williams and Washington? Wade had 'the package' and went to a 4-3 in certian situations, but mostly Williams was a back-up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Wade had 'the package' and went to a 4-3 in certian situations, but mostly Williams was a back-up. I don't recall the '99 team playing the chicken shyt let's not rush too many players and let's drop everyone else into coverage style defense that Dickie has crafted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scoring is not hardy Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 I don't recall the '99 team playing the chicken shyt let's not rush too many players and let's drop everyone else into coverage style defense that Dickie has crafted. Pretty good chicken shyt style defense Dickie crafted in Chicago Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JK2000 Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 There's no one on the team who compares to Big Pat Williams. Can't believe Donahoe let him walk! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Pretty good chicken shyt style defense Dickie crafted in Chicago Really? I live in Chicago and watched the whole Jauron era. Can't recall any run of great defenses during his time. Flash in the pan for 1 season maybe. Anything sustained, no. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cynical Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Really? I live in Chicago and watched the whole Jauron era. Can't recall any run of great defenses during his time. Flash in the pan for 1 season maybe. Anything sustained, no. Overall Defensive ranks 1999 - 20th points, 29th yards 2000 - 20th points, 16th yards 2001 - 1st points, 15th yards 2002 - 25th points, 25th yards 2003 - 22nd points, 14th yards You're right. Other than 2001, that's pretty underwhelming. Cue the "It's not Dicks fault" crowd in ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
robkmil Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 1999 Buffalo Bills I remember when we had the horses in the middle (ie Washington/P. Williams) and we had one of the stoutest run defenses in the NFL. Lets compare the contributors of that defense to our 2008 version and see how they fare. Sam Cowart - Paul Pozluzny Donovan Greer - Jabari Greer Sean Moran - Spencer Johnson Gabe Northern - Kavika Mitchell Marlo Perry - John DiGiorgio Sam Rogers -Angelo Crowell Kurt Schulz - Ko Simpson Bruce Smith - Aaron Schobel Thomas Smith - Terrence Mcgee Ted Washington - Marcus Stroud Marcellus Wiley - Ryan Denney Pat Williams - John McCargo Antoine Winfield - Leodis Mcelvin Shawn Price - Kyle Williams Phil Hansen - Chris Kelsey Henry Jones - Donte Whitner How would you compare them??? Hansen and Bruce were much better than our current starters Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 1999 Buffalo BillsSam Cowart - Paul Pozluzny Cowart (?) Donovan Greer - Jabari Greer J. Greer Sean Moran - Spencer Johnson Johnson (?) Gabe Northern - Kavika Mitchell Mitchell Marlo Perry - John DiGiorgio DiGiorgio Sam Rogers -Angelo Crowell Crowell Kurt Schulz - Ko Simpson Schultze (?) Bruce Smith - Aaron Schobel BRUCE Thomas Smith - Terrence Mcgee Smith Ted Washington - Marcus Stroud BIG TED Marcellus Wiley - Ryan Denney Another tie Pat Williams - John McCargo WILLIAMS Antoine Winfield - Leodis Mcelvin WINFIELD Shawn Price - Kyle Williams Williams Phil Hansen - Chris Kelsey Hansen Henry Jones - Donte Whitner Jones (?) How would you compare them??? Question marks indicate that things could change. Caps indicate that there is no contest, at least for this season (imo). Btw, great post! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EndZoneCrew Posted August 24, 2008 Author Share Posted August 24, 2008 Question marks indicate that things could change. Caps indicate that there is no contest, at least for this season (imo). Btw, great post! Thanks.....so it loks like we have them at LB, but everywhere else (outside of depth) the 1999 team has the talent edge. Well, I agree but I would say that there is more potential from this defense. We will see! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 I don't recall the '99 team playing the chicken shyt let's not rush too many players and let's drop everyone else into coverage style defense that Dickie has crafted. Seriously? That defense was super conservative (Peyton Manning even said as much) and IIRC they were near the bottom in takeaways. Doesn't mean it was the wrong philosophy for that personnel, or that it didn't work for them, but I'd bet they blitzed less than last year's D. As silvermike mentioned it really illustrates the imprtance of line play. Wade & co. definitely extracted the max out of that group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
VOR Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 The Bills were tied for 4th worst in INT's and tied for 7th worst in fumble recoveries in 1999. All told, they were 3rd worst in the NFL in takeaways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jimmy griffin Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 funny as$ picture avantar. lol. your post is intersting. i would take that vet 99 defense anyday. the vet pressence and savvy pedigree of that unit was important. BRUCE was lossing it a little in 99 - -but still effective. thomas smith and henry jones were gamers. they rarely were beaten. polian drafts GREAT defense backs. sam cowart was a solid player. very physcial. i dont like poz. he is FAR to small for my liking. in games, he is dragged around by large RBs. i would be surprised if stays healthy for 16 games. too small. i know others like the guy, but he is a poor mans chris speilman -- who was devastated by natron means and other big backs in large palyoff games in the late 1990s. i would rather have a big body teddy bruski, kirkland (old), etc, type in the middle -- to take on guards and ousupport the run. cowarrt was very physical. he refused to be carried for a few yards. he would drive RBs backward. run defense is an attidude. ted washington played with great technique and savvy. he knew when to make the special play at the right time and save his energy. mccargo palys to random adn wild still. wiley was athletic and had good athletic ability and speed. he was fearless and would stick his head in there to make a play. he was happy to get dirty. kelsay and denney are bruttal. both stand around the entire play with their hands on their hips. and then help the RB up off the grass. they are terrible. spenser and stroud are savvy vets who will clog up the middle. stamina is a major problem with stroud. with JAX he could not finish games ro stay fresh. he is a nasty SOB when primed and motivated. ko simpson - who knows? nothing stands out for me. donte is a good player -- but a bust IMO for a draft pick that high. michael Huff for the raider -- the safety taken before donte is dominating games now -- all over the field. wittner's range is suspect. he is short in stature. and when brandon jacobs ran past him last season and wittner was scared to tackle him -- i lost a LOT of respect for donte. he might be a pus$y at heart. i'll tell you, kelso , ya that guy, stuck his head into Ottis Anderson (super bowl ) a few times. He was not scared. ottis had kelso by 40 pounds. winfield was great. he got outclassed by tall receivers, but all in all , he was a super corner. the guy knew the game and was very smart. sean moran was a joke. shawn price was terrble too. they were not good subs. and it hurt late in the 1999 season. pjil hanson was like wiley. played with great leverage and had that odd and strange midwest country farm hand strenght. a GREAT player in every regard. one of the great bills IMO. not affraid to get dirty. he would shed blockers or take them on adn still make plays. mcgee is terrific. good cover guy -- great athlete. like winfield or thomas smith. "the greers" are a wash IMO. gabe northern, again, was physical. wade phillips likes physical LBS that try to destroy RBS. Gabe got injured adn was never the same. kurt shultz was a good substitute. the bills could plug guys into the lineup like him and it would not show. on his own, schultz was nothing to write home about. but he was protected by the stars on that 99 defense. marlo perry and degorgio are spare part players. not starters -- should only be special team guys. kavika is a solid physical player. he fits that nasty mean LB with good size and hatred for the opposition. no flare-- jsut solid meana$s play. great pickup. we covered everyone here... i would say the 99 defense was smarter and the vets pressence was evident. 1999 Buffalo Bills I remember when we had the horses in the middle (ie Washington/P. Williams) and we had one of the stoutest run defenses in the NFL. Lets compare the contributors of that defense to our 2008 version and see how they fare. Sam Cowart - Paul Pozluzny Donovan Greer - Jabari Greer Sean Moran - Spencer Johnson Gabe Northern - Kavika Mitchell Marlo Perry - John DiGiorgio Sam Rogers -Angelo Crowell Kurt Schulz - Ko Simpson Bruce Smith - Aaron Schobel Thomas Smith - Terrence Mcgee Ted Washington - Marcus Stroud Marcellus Wiley - Ryan Denney Pat Williams - John McCargo Antoine Winfield - Leodis Mcelvin Shawn Price - Kyle Williams Phil Hansen - Chris Kelsey Henry Jones - Donte Whitner How would you compare them??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ganesh Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 funny as$ picture avantar. lol. your post is intersting. i would take that vet 99 defense anyday. the vet pressence and savvy pedigree of that unit was important. BRUCE was lossing it a little in 99 - -but still effective. thomas smith and henry jones were gamers. they rarely were beaten. polian drafts GREAT defense backs. sam cowart was a solid player. very physcial. i dont like poz. he is FAR to small for my liking. in games, he is dragged around by large RBs. i would be surprised if stays healthy for 16 games. too small. i know others like the guy, but he is a poor mans chris speilman -- who was devastated by natron means and other big backs in large palyoff games in the late 1990s. i would rather have a big body teddy bruski, kirkland (old), etc, i would say the 99 defense was smarter and the vets pressence was evident. What made that 99 defense tick was the front 3.....Ted Washington changed the dynamics of this defense after he came over from Denver/49ers. It was sad to see him go. Sam Cowart benefited from the presence of Washignton in front of him just as Urlacher would later do in Chicago when Washington was on the DL or even Bruschi during that 1st SB run when he had Washington in front of him to shed blockers and make plays. Hopefully Stroud will be able to provide that kind of help for Pos and make him a good LB. BTW, Thomas Smith could never catch the ball and as he showed in Chicago, he was not a premier DB. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 24, 2008 Share Posted August 24, 2008 Seriously? That defense was super conservative (Peyton Manning even said as much) and IIRC they were near the bottom in takeaways. Doesn't mean it was the wrong philosophy for that personnel, or that it didn't work for them, but I'd bet they blitzed less than last year's D. As silvermike mentioned it really illustrates the imprtance of line play. Wade & co. definitely extracted the max out of that group. Now it's time for Dick to extract the most that can be done from this group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
silvermike Posted August 25, 2008 Share Posted August 25, 2008 It's enough to convince me that on defense, you do what you can to get the best ends and tackles you can find, and then rely on getting lucky for the back seven. You can overcome a weak linebacker or questionable safety much easier than a suspect rush from your front guys. Investing in Stroud was a good start; let's get some real production out of Schobel and McCargo this year. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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