Yoho Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 As a fan of Pro Football for more years than most of you have been alive, every season, some columnist loves to lament that there are just not enough quality quarterbacks around and in the "good old days", the quarterback pool was much deeper. I thought that was BS when I first read it the 80's about the QB's of yore and I think it is BS now. I have been meaning to do this for a while and a boring Friday night when the wife is out of town is as good as any. I opened up Relentless and picked a random year (1992) and checked out the starting QB's against the Bills. You be the judge if this crop is better or worse than what we likely face this year. Week 1 - Rams - Jim Everett (serviceable in the Matt Hassleback range) Week 2- 49'ers - Steve Young - hall of famer, cant argue with that Week 3 - Colts - Jack Trudeau - enough said Week 4 - Patriots - Hugh Millen (or is it Matt Millen) Week 5- Dolphins - Dan Marino (even if I hate him, I have to respect him) Week 6 - Raiders- Todd Maronivich ( in the fine tradition of Alex Smith and Joey Harrington but on drugs) Week 7 - Jets - Browning Nagle ( best QB ever named Browning) Week 8 - Patriots - Tommy Hodson ( I guess he beat out Hugh Millen) Week 9 - Steelers - Neil O'Donnell - (had some good NFL success) Week 10 - Dolphins - Marino again Week 11 - Falcons - Wade Wilson ( he got benched and replaced by Billy Joe Tolliver) Week 12 - Colts - Jack Trudeau again Week 13- Jets - Browning Nagle again Week 14 - Broncos - Tommy Maddox ( I guess Elway must have been hurt) Week 15 - Saints - Bobby Hebert (actually he was pretty good at times) Week 16 - Oilers - Warren Moon (another Hall of Famer) So, we had 4 games against Hall of Famers, 4 games against pretty good NFL QB's and 8 games against mediocraty. Request another year and I will be happy to do the comparison. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PromoTheRobot Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Have considered that defences have improved over the years? QBs see defenders who do nothing but train and gameplan all year. It's like pitchers pitching fewer complete games than the good ok days. PTR Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 The problem today is that teams don't have the time they used to have to groom QB's. I think there are just as many good QB's today as there was then but I think some guys get short shrift. JP for example. If he had been in a consistent system and handled better by the HC's he had he might be a great starter. More QB's are thrown into the fire immediately and expected to immediately be stars. Most QB's need seasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Is true that once upon a time, Miami meant we'd see Marino, Denver:Elway, SF:Montana, etc. But yeah, there have always been stinkers, too. I've done similar research; for instance, I believe the immortal Timm Rosenbach was the QB when Arizona visited here in the early '90s. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted August 23, 2008 Author Share Posted August 23, 2008 The problem today is that teams don't have the time they used to have to groom QB's. I think there are just as many good QB's today as there was then but I think some guys get short shrift. JP for example. If he had been in a consistent system and handled better by the HC's he had he might be a great starter. More QB's are thrown into the fire immediately and expected to immediately be stars. Most QB's need seasoning. I am not sure about that. Millen, Maronivich, Nagle and Hodson were all kids at that time. I dont think a damn thing has changed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BuffOrange Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 I don't disagree. When you think about it, it's amazing that Miami was one of our biggest challengers despite no defense or running game. Part of that is a testament to Marino obviously, but part of it is also a good indication that there were a lot of crappy QB's. re: 2008 - we can't really predict what will be made of the careers of Jay Cutler or Derek Anderson, Leinart, Russel, or even Rivers/Garrard. To be fair though, some of them will probably have solid careers and won't be that highly thought of 10 years after they retired, sort of like Everett. BTW what was their SB pick that year? I seem to remember those mags picking Miami a lot (back when we actually had a reason to complain about the media "hating" us). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted August 23, 2008 Author Share Posted August 23, 2008 Is true that once upon a time, Miami meant we'd see Marino, Denver:Elway, SF:Montana, etc. But yeah, there have always been stinkers, too. I've done similar research; for instance, I believe the immortal Timm Rosenbach was the QB when Arizona visited here in the early '90s. And today, New England means Brady, Indy means Manning, Dallas means Romo etc. There is always the elite, there is always the pretty good and the rest is junk. It just hasnt changed despite what the sportswriters want to invoke. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 And today, New England means Brady, Indy means Manning, Dallas means Romo etc. There is always the elite, there is always the pretty good and the rest is junk. It just hasnt changed despite what the sportswriters want to invoke. There is one significant change, though -- four more teams in the league. Just like baseball (pitchers) and hockey (goalies), even if you arguably have the same talent pool, it's spread thinner. Let's go back a few more years and add a couple more examples. Before the AFL set up shop, Jack Kemp and Len Dawson couldn't find starting QB jobs in the 12-team NFL. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted August 23, 2008 Author Share Posted August 23, 2008 Here is another year to ponder. How about 1984 when we went 2- 14. Week 1 - Patriots - Steve Grogan Week 2- Cardinals - Neil Lomax Week 3 - Dolphins - Dan Marino Week 4- Jets - Pat Ryan Week 5- Colts - Mike Pagel Week 6 - Eagles - Ron Jaworski Week 7 - Seahawks - Dave Krieg Week 8 - Broncos - John Elway Week 9 - Dolphins - Dan Marino (to put this in perspective, Elway and Marino were rookies who were replaced during their games by Don Strock and Gary Kubiak) Week 10 - Browns - McDonald (I have no clue what his name is) Week 11 - Patriots - Tony Eason Week 12- Cowboys - Gary Hoegeboon Week 13- Redskins - Joe Theismann Week 14 - Colts - Art Schlicter Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Simon Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Week 10 - Browns - McDonald (I have no clue what his name is) "Paul" McDonald I think he was from Cali or some such. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
keepthefaith Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 As a fan of Pro Football for more years than most of you have been alive, every season, some columnist loves to lament that there are just not enough quality quarterbacks around and in the "good old days", the quarterback pool was much deeper. I thought that was BS when I first read it the 80's about the QB's of yore and I think it is BS now. I have been meaning to do this for a while and a boring Friday night when the wife is out of town is as good as any. I opened up Relentless and picked a random year (1992) and checked out the starting QB's against the Bills. You be the judge if this crop is better or worse than what we likely face this year. Week 1 - Rams - Jim Everett (serviceable in the Matt Hassleback range) Week 2- 49'ers - Steve Young - hall of famer, cant argue with that Week 3 - Colts - Jack Trudeau - enough said Week 4 - Patriots - Hugh Millen (or is it Matt Millen) Week 5- Dolphins - Dan Marino (even if I hate him, I have to respect him) Week 6 - Raiders- Todd Maronivich ( in the fine tradition of Alex Smith and Joey Harrington but on drugs) Week 7 - Jets - Browning Nagle ( best QB ever named Browning) Week 8 - Patriots - Tommy Hodson ( I guess he beat out Hugh Millen) Week 9 - Steelers - Neil O'Donnell - (had some good NFL success) Week 10 - Dolphins - Marino again Week 11 - Falcons - Wade Wilson ( he got benched and replaced by Billy Joe Tolliver) Week 12 - Colts - Jack Trudeau again Week 13- Jets - Browning Nagle again Week 14 - Broncos - Tommy Maddox ( I guess Elway must have been hurt) Week 15 - Saints - Bobby Hebert (actually he was pretty good at times) Week 16 - Oilers - Warren Moon (another Hall of Famer) So, we had 4 games against Hall of Famers, 4 games against pretty good NFL QB's and 8 games against mediocraty. Request another year and I will be happy to do the comparison. I'll say this. I stood at field level a few years ago for about a half of a Bears pre-season game and was really surprised at how difficult it looked for the QBs to operate against the defense. The defensive (and offensive) players are huge, fast and intense. It looked incredibly difficult to play that position and yes, you've got no time to make a decision or try to avoid a rusher. Looked much more difficult than on TV. People in Chicago talk about Rex Grossman being just too short to play effectively. He's only 6-foot. I believe it after what I saw on that day. Flutie did better because he simply played the position differently than any other QB. Heck, JP at 6-2 might be too short also. Offensive lineman have also gotten taller over the years and the guys rushing the passer are really quick. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
H2o Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Overall, I think there's a good crop of QB's in the league right now. You got the bridge of generations with Favre, there's both Manning's, Roethlisberger, Romo, Hasselbeck, Brady, Gerrard(Had an awesome TD to INT ratio last season and can run, just ask the Steelers ), McNabb, Brees, Palmer, and Bulger. Then you have QB's who seem t be up and coming like Matt Schaub, Phillip Rivers, Jamarcus Russell, Jay Cutler, Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, and POSSIBLY, yes possibly, Trent Edwards. There's also some QB's in the league that won't be great, but are solid starters capable of big games like Delhomme, Warner(Was great at one time before all of the concussions), Garcia, and Vince Young(More so rushing like Michael Vick). There were some pretty crappy starters back in '92. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yoho Posted August 23, 2008 Author Share Posted August 23, 2008 Ok, one last look - 1974 (the Bills were 9-5) Week 1 - Raiders - Kenny Stabler Week 2- Dolphins - Bob Griese Week 3- Jets- Joe Namath Week 4- Packers - Don Tagge Week 5 - Colts- Burt Jones Week 6 - Patriots - Jim Plunkett Week 7 - Bears - Gary Huff Week 8 - Patriots - Jim Plunkett Week 9 - Oilers - Dan Pastorini Week 10 - Dolphins - Bob Griese Week 11 - Browns - Mike Phipps Week 12 Colts - Burt Jones Week 13- Jets - Joe Namath Week 14- Rams- James Harris Now this group sounds more impressive than the others, lets look at the yardage for each game; Stabler 122 Griese 84 Namath 33 Tagge 141 Jones 44 Plunkett 150 Huff 204 Plunkett 204 Pastorint 159 Griese 237 Phelps 102 Jones 170 Namath 131 Harris 170 Talk about a different world. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lori Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Ok, one last look - 1974 (the Bills were 9-5) Week 1 - Raiders - Kenny Stabler Week 2- Dolphins - Bob Griese Week 3- Jets- Joe Namath Week 4- Packers - Don Tagge Week 5 - Colts- Burt Jones Week 6 - Patriots - Jim Plunkett Week 7 - Bears - Gary Huff Week 8 - Patriots - Jim Plunkett Week 9 - Oilers - Dan Pastorini Week 10 - Dolphins - Bob Griese Week 11 - Browns - Mike Phipps Week 12 Colts - Burt Jones Week 13- Jets - Joe Namath Week 14- Rams- James Harris Now this group sounds more impressive than the others, lets look at the yardage for each game; Stabler 122 Griese 84 Namath 33 Tagge 141 Jones 44 Plunkett 150 Huff 204 Plunkett 204 Pastorint 159 Griese 237 Phelps 102 Jones 170 Namath 131 Harris 170 Talk about a different world. Your overall point holds, but you know that was the game with the 50mph rain/wind, right? Buffalo won without Ferguson completing a single pass. Chuck Pollock told me those were the worst conditions of any game he'd ever covered -- up until last year's Cleveland game, anyway -- and that Namath said they were the worst he'd ever played in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steely Dan Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Here is another year to ponder. How about 1984 when we went 2- 14. Week 1 - Patriots - Steve Grogan Week 2- Cardinals - Neil Lomax Week 3 - Dolphins - Dan Marino Week 4- Jets - Pat Ryan Week 5- Colts - Mike Pagel Week 6 - Eagles - Ron Jaworski Week 7 - Seahawks - Dave Krieg Week 8 - Broncos - John Elway Week 9 - Dolphins - Dan Marino (to put this in perspective, Elway and Marino were rookies who were replaced during their games by Don Strock and Gary Kubiak) Week 10 - Browns - McDonald (I have no clue what his name is) Week 11 - Patriots - Tony Eason Week 12- Cowboys - Gary Hoegeboon Week 13- Redskins - Joe Theismann Week 14 - Colts - Art Schlicter I'd be willing to bet Schlister would have been great if he could've gotten his gambling problem under control. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dibs Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 As a fan of Pro Football for more years than most of you have been alive, every season, some columnist loves to lament that there are just not enough quality quarterbacks around and in the "good old days", the quarterback pool was much deeper. I thought that was BS when I first read it the 80's about the QB's of yore and I think it is BS now. I have been meaning to do this for a while and a boring Friday night when the wife is out of town is as good as any. I opened up Relentless and picked a random year (1992) and checked out the starting QB's against the Bills. You be the judge if this crop is better or worse than what we likely face this year. Week 1 - Rams - Jim Everett (serviceable in the Matt Hassleback range) Week 2- 49'ers - Steve Young - hall of famer, cant argue with that Week 3 - Colts - Jack Trudeau - enough said Week 4 - Patriots - Hugh Millen (or is it Matt Millen) Week 5- Dolphins - Dan Marino (even if I hate him, I have to respect him) Week 6 - Raiders- Todd Maronivich ( in the fine tradition of Alex Smith and Joey Harrington but on drugs) Week 7 - Jets - Browning Nagle ( best QB ever named Browning) Week 8 - Patriots - Tommy Hodson ( I guess he beat out Hugh Millen) Week 9 - Steelers - Neil O'Donnell - (had some good NFL success) Week 10 - Dolphins - Marino again Week 11 - Falcons - Wade Wilson ( he got benched and replaced by Billy Joe Tolliver) Week 12 - Colts - Jack Trudeau again Week 13- Jets - Browning Nagle again Week 14 - Broncos - Tommy Maddox ( I guess Elway must have been hurt) Week 15 - Saints - Bobby Hebert (actually he was pretty good at times) Week 16 - Oilers - Warren Moon (another Hall of Famer) So, we had 4 games against Hall of Famers, 4 games against pretty good NFL QB's and 8 games against mediocraty. Request another year and I will be happy to do the comparison. I think the lamenting over days of yore in regards to QBs of the era you are talking about is that there was a very high number of HOF type(or close) QBs in the league at the time. In 1992 there was..... Jim Kelly Joe Montana Steve Young Dan Marino John Elway Warren Moon Troy Aikman Brett Favre(starting career) Randall Cunningham (have I missed any?) There years following(mid-late 90s) saw a tonne of articles bemoaning the lack of QB talent on the field. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 Then you have QB's who seem t be up and coming like Matt Schaub, Phillip Rivers, Jamarcus Russell, Jay Cutler, Derek Anderson, Brady Quinn, and POSSIBLY, yes possibly, Trent Edwards. Russell and Quinn seem to be up and comers, and there is a "possibility" for Trent? Translation: I wish that JP, after 4 years of losing, was our starter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill from NYC Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 JP for example. If he had been in a consistent system and handled better by the HC's he had he might be a great starter. Please define "great." Are we talking Marino? Peyton Manning? Montana? Elway? Unitas? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KRC Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 QBs see defenders who do nothing but train and gameplan all year. Can't the same be said for the offense? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kipers Hair Posted August 23, 2008 Share Posted August 23, 2008 With 2 exceptions, not axactly household names....on this years schedule we have 2 that are guaranteed HOF, 2 number 1 overall's, a couple of decent threats and some nobodies... I think they might be a hair stronger this year... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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